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Author Topic: Print lighting, NEC PA272w Calibrations..Printing...differing results  (Read 7619 times)

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Print lighting, NEC PA272w Calibrations..Printing...differing results
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2017, 02:24:08 pm »

Hi Tim,

I apologize, but I still don't understand your devotion to Walmart as your go-to photo lab for your work.  I have seen my share of prints from both Walmart and Costco that were terrible examples of anything approaching a good print.  Banding and other issues lead me to believe that QC is severely lacking in both of these retail locations, and therefore, why would you assume that they are in any way interested in producing a quality print, especially given the price range they work in.  I also cannot understand why you would bother to download a profile from Dry Creek for a printer sitting in a Walmart store.  That is anything but a custom profile, and those stores would quite likely benefit from a custom profile even more than someone who actually has any amount of knowledge concerning inkjet printing.  Sorry Tim, but I'm totally confounded by the notion that somehow Walmart has now become thee place to go for quality printing. 

However, to change the subject slightly.  You mention that you have more than five brands of LED bulbs for testing.  Question #1 - do you have the CRI numbers for any of these bulbs and are those numbers substantiated?  Question #2 - At what degree of light intensity are you viewing your prints?  Of course that can be measured in EV or Foot Candles, which can then be stated in LUX or Lumens. 

Gary

Hi, Gary.

I'm confounded on your insistence to put words in my mouth and over react to my using a big box vendor printer for 8x10's for home display. Take a powder and move on.

I'm also confounded how you can't see with your own eyes the print match in the soft proof example above of the shot of my display and 8x10 as confirmation of how off the Walmart print is from the source file.

I never said Walmart one hour photo dry lab is the go to printer. I just demonstrated just how accurate to the characterization of color errors the ICC profile showed me by assigning it to the sRGB source image. I've done this many times using DryCreekPhoto profiles of a number of local one hour photo labs to pre-visualize these errors for printers that print in sRGB which was the color space the ICC profile was built from at DryCreekPhoto.

I could have converted to that DryCreekPhoto profile and gotten a match but I didn't because I didn't print a test file to do a previsualization. The odds of getting a match to a color dump like the source image by assigning an ICC profile built from the same sRGB space printer miles away is rare with most one hour photo printers so this indicates how valuable and accurate building a printer profile can be even of some unknown off the wall printer.
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Garnick

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Re: Print lighting, NEC PA272w Calibrations..Printing...differing results
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2017, 10:29:23 am »

Hi, Gary.

I'm confounded on your insistence to put words in my mouth and over react to my using a big box vendor printer for 8x10's for home display. Take a powder and move on.

I'm also confounded how you can't see with your own eyes the print match in the soft proof example above of the shot of my display and 8x10 as confirmation of how off the Walmart print is from the source file.

I never said Walmart one hour photo dry lab is the go to printer. I just demonstrated just how accurate to the characterization of color errors the ICC profile showed me by assigning it to the sRGB source image. I've done this many times using DryCreekPhoto profiles of a number of local one hour photo labs to pre-visualize these errors for printers that print in sRGB which was the color space the ICC profile was built from at DryCreekPhoto.

I could have converted to that DryCreekPhoto profile and gotten a match but I didn't because I didn't print a test file to do a previsualization. The odds of getting a match to a color dump like the source image by assigning an ICC profile built from the same sRGB space printer miles away is rare with most one hour photo printers so this indicates how valuable and accurate building a printer profile can be even of some unknown off the wall printer.

You're absolutely correct Tim, I have been rather fixated on your apparent fixation with the Walmart Print Lab.  WOOPS...there I go again, letting my fingers get ahead of my brain and writing something I probably shouldn't have.  However, what's done is done and I will do as you suggested and "take a powder".  I'm sure you will be most happy to read those words, and I don't blame you for that.  You have offered a bit more information in your most recent post and I now understand your reason for such research, I think.  However, there is still one bit of information I would like to get from you concerning the viewing/judging of your prints, whether from Walmart or from your own printer.  One more time, can you please let me know the intensity of the light falling on the prints you are viewing.  That is a very important piece of information that I cannot seem to find on this forum, an average "standard" intensity of the lighting use to view/judge prints.

I do apologize for being a PITA Tim.  Perhaps we will have a more productive conversation at some point in the future.

Have great day -- seriously,

Gary  :)
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Print lighting, NEC PA272w Calibrations..Printing...differing results
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2017, 03:08:24 pm »

Gary, I can't tell you the exact intensity of light according to some lux, lumens, cd/m2 metric. I get a white light, any white light, and I move the print or light bulb/tube closer or farther away to get a match.

Any gallery track lighting setup or print matching booth will allow the same adjusting.

As an example to show that this doesn't seem to be an issue my local photography club I'm not a member gave a show at our local civic center [I found out about through my local Time Warner Cable/Spectrum news outlet] where they had the halogen track lights about 10 feet above the framed photos hanging on the wall pointing straight down. None of the light's beams were making it to the pieces. I had to rely on the diffused skylight another 10 feet higher up to provide enough dim light.

I asked a civic center technician I saw rigging up a media presentation projection system for another venue across from the photo display wall if they could get the track lights closer or at least directing the beam more on the pictures and he said it was all fixed and unmovable. That's the best they could do for lighting.

No one viewing the photos seemed to care or were bothered by the dim lighting of the photos.

Below is how I light my 8x10's in my living room next to a window I keep the blinds closed to diffuse the light. If I can see what the picture is depicting, I have enough light.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 03:16:13 pm by Tim Lookingbill »
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Garnick

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Re: Print lighting, NEC PA272w Calibrations..Printing...differing results
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2017, 01:53:34 pm »

Gary, I can't tell you the exact intensity of light according to some lux, lumens, cd/m2 metric. I get a white light, any white light, and I move the print or light bulb/tube closer or farther away to get a match.

Any gallery track lighting setup or print matching booth will allow the same adjusting.

As an example to show that this doesn't seem to be an issue my local photography club I'm not a member gave a show at our local civic center [I found out about through my local Time Warner Cable/Spectrum news outlet] where they had the halogen track lights about 10 feet above the framed photos hanging on the wall pointing straight down. None of the light's beams were making it to the pieces. I had to rely on the diffused skylight another 10 feet higher up to provide enough dim light.

I asked a civic center technician I saw rigging up a media presentation projection system for another venue across from the photo display wall if they could get the track lights closer or at least directing the beam more on the pictures and he said it was all fixed and unmovable. That's the best they could do for lighting.

No one viewing the photos seemed to care or were bothered by the dim lighting of the photos.

Below is how I light my 8x10's in my living room next to a window I keep the blinds closed to diffuse the light. If I can see what the picture is depicting, I have enough light.

Hi Tim,

Although your information really doesn't apply to my situation, it does point out a huge flaw in the way some print shows are illuminated by amateurs.  That's a pretty sad tale about the camera club display, and also the fact that most of those viewing it didn't seem to have a problem with the lighting issues.  Taking into account the possibility that there were some good quality photographs on display, it is indeed a shame that the lighting was not able to present them in a manner befitting that quality.  Of course the method of lighting your own prints displayed in your home is entirely at your discretion, and may vary with whatever ambient light is available, but that is not the case with my situation.  I print for other photographers,  serious amateurs and professionals alike, so I need to have an average/"standard" for the lighting system I have for evaluating the prints as well as displaying them to my customers.  My background in Pro Custom Labs was such that we always kept a close eye on the print evaluation lighting setup, to be sure it adhered to both commercial and general photographic printing jobs.  As mentioned previously, I am doing some research concerning the efficacy of using one of the new LED system, and since one of the manufacturers mentioned(Lumicrest) is about a 25 minute drive away in Toronto, I am concentrating on them as a possible supplier.  I will soon be speaking to someone there and likely visiting their location very soon.  However, none of that research has or will give me the information I need concerning the "proper" lighting intensity necessary for my situation and needs.  In my previous location my evaluating light source was delivering approximately 400 LUX to the print, so I imagine I'll probably settle on that again, regardless of the actual bulb(s) I'll be using. 

Have a great day Tim,

Gary           

« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 02:00:33 pm by Garnick »
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)
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