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Author Topic: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.  (Read 5704 times)

Paul2660

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Interesting read:


http://nikonrumors.com/2017/03/18/sony-to-no-longer-sell-certain-sensors-to-third-party-manufacturers.aspx/#more-111049

You have to read the full article while it's still in cache on Google. 

Personally I wish Sony all the best!!.  It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on Nikon, Fuji, and even P1 or Hasselblad. 

Paul Caldwell
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scyth

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2017, 10:17:36 AM »

Interesting read:


http://nikonrumors.com/2017/03/18/sony-to-no-longer-sell-certain-sensors-to-third-party-manufacturers.aspx/#more-111049

You have to read the full article while it's still in cache on Google. 

Personally I wish Sony all the best!!.  It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on Nikon, Fuji, and even P1 or Hasselblad. 

Paul Caldwell

fake news by Democrats running I-R, they were already forced to withdrew that published interview article  ;D
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Paul2660

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2017, 11:32:40 AM »

Many a truth is said in jest.

Time will tell.  Nikon has discontinued the manufacturing of the D810 and so far has nothing new coming out that I have seen.

Paul Caldwell
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2017, 06:12:51 PM »

Time will tell.  Nikon has discontinued the manufacturing of the D810 and so far has nothing new coming out that I have seen.

Is that a fact or a rumor?

Cheers,
Bernard
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Paul2660

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2017, 06:18:00 PM »

I believe it to be fact as it came across the news wire a while back. I will try to find the anno from Nikon. I was surprised when I read it since no follow on was announced at CP+

Paul Caldwell
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BAB

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2017, 09:58:36 PM »

No reason to read the article, Sony will continue to provide sensors for the masses and specialty markets until another competitor makes it not profitable to further do so. Anyway contracts with third party entities are likely years out.


Really fake news
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shadowblade

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2017, 11:45:13 PM »

No reason to read the article, Sony will continue to provide sensors for the masses and specialty markets until another competitor makes it not profitable to further do so. Anyway contracts with third party entities are likely years out.


Really fake news

They'll keep providing sensors, but there's no reason for them to provide their best sensor. Especially when their second-best sensor is still better than anything else out there. Keep the best for themselves, to give their own cameras a leg up on the competition, then sell everyone else their second-best, to compete among each other.

There is another competitor out there - Sony itself. If Sony sold off their best sensor, that would leave Sony cameras with no trump card with which to compete against others. It would be like Nikon selling the D5 AF system, for anyone else to use - it would take away the selling point of their top camera, and wouldn't be a very smart thing to do.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2017, 12:53:14 AM »

There is another competitor out there - Sony itself. If Sony sold off their best sensor, that would leave Sony cameras with no trump card with which to compete against others. It would be like Nikon selling the D5 AF system, for anyone else to use - it would take away the selling point of their top camera, and wouldn't be a very smart thing to do.

It would be similar if Nikon had a business unit selling AF modules.

Besides, the a7 series has been successful without sensor differentiation till now (at least compared to Nikon).

Cheers,
Bernard
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shadowblade

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2017, 02:35:30 AM »

It would be similar if Nikon had a business unit selling AF modules.

Besides, the a7 series has been successful without sensor differentiation till now (at least compared to Nikon).

Cheers,
Bernard

The A7r succeeded in no small part due to its ability to take Canon lenses via the Metabones adapter, and Canon's significant sensor deficiency (which has yet to be corrected among sensors in the 36-50MP range). Without that, it is unlikely that it would have been anywhere near as successful as it was. Sony knew this, since they were offering a free Metabones adapter with every A7/A7r body for more than a year after it was launched.

The A7r2 has a better sensor for high resolution/detail use than any other full-frame body out there, with the exception  of the Pentax in pixel shift mode (which is really cheating, since it uses four separate exposures to get the image - not really comparable). Not only does it perform well at low ISO, but, unlike the 36MP sensors sold by Sony and used by others, it also performs well at high ISO, matching the high-ISO noise and DR of the D5 (normalised for resolution) while maintaining a resolution advantage. If it merely retained the original 36MP sensor, it is doubtful if it would have done as well.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2017, 03:28:46 AM »

The a7rII is a bit better than the D810, the difference is of low significance in the real world.

Now, Canon was indeed far behind, they have mostly caught up. Sensors are unlikely to make a big difference moving forward. This being true btw cameras but most importantly relative to the actual needs of most people.

Just see the success of the Fuji X-T2 with its Sony APS-C sensor. Do you think that Fuji is utteely concerned whether they will get access to the latest breed of Sony APS-C sensor for the X-T3?

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 04:17:53 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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shadowblade

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2017, 04:55:37 AM »

The a7rII is a bit better than the D810, the difference is of low significance in the real world.

At low ISO, yes.

But the A7r2 holds up much better than the D810 - and A7r - at high ISOs. Not that the latter two are hopeless, but the difference is quite noticeable at, say, ISO 6400-12800, shooting live theatre or music using eye detection AF. The A7r2 can match the 1Dx2 and D5 image quality-wise, while the 36MP sensor lags behind.

Quote
Now, Canon was indeed far behind, they have mostly caught up. Sensors are unlikely to make a big difference moving forward. This being true btw cameras but most importantly relative to the actual needs of most people.

All it takes is one leap in technology. The transition from off-chip to on-chip column-parallel A/D conversion was one such leap. CCD to CMOS was another.

BSI has the potential to deliver this - put a capacitor behind each photosite (possible due to the three-dimensional nature of the circuitry) and you're suddenly looking at possible ISOs several stops lower, and 20 stops of more of DR.

Or something replacing silicon and leading to a big improvement in quantum efficiency, leading to much less noise at the same ISO.

Or a multilayer sensor (like an improved Foveon) capable of distinguishing colour in each pixel, leading to improved colour accuracy and resolution and reduced artifacts.

Quote
Just see the success of the Fuji X-T2 with its Sony APS-C sensor. Do you think that Fuji is utteely concerned whether they will get access to the latest breed of Sony APS-C sensor for the X-T3?

I doubt Sony considers any APS-C sensors to be part of a line worth protecting and monopolising.
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donbga

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2017, 09:45:35 AM »



There is another competitor out there - Sony itself. If Sony sold off their best sensor, that would leave Sony cameras with no trump card with which to compete against others.

Perhaps Nikon needs a Trump branded DSLR with optional 24K Gold Plate option. That would surely stir the pot (sales).
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2017, 10:13:28 AM »

Surely a Trump branded camera would simply insist the photographs it took were the greatest photographs ever, better than any other photographs, and add that it took better photographs than any other camera, and any information to suggest otherwise was just fake news/alternative facts. Then it woud go & play golf.

donbga

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2017, 11:56:49 AM »

Surely a Trump branded camera would simply insist the photographs it took were the greatest photographs ever, better than any other photographs, and add that it took better photographs than any other camera, and any information to suggest otherwise was just fake news/alternative facts. Then it woud go & play golf.
It would be just something else for the Commies and Alt Left to bitch about.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2017, 03:15:30 PM »

Hi,

The Sony A7rII has dual gain conversion, a technology that Sony has licensed from Aptina, originally. That feature reduces read noise significantly above 640 ISO.

I guess that Sony or Nikon can have their own sensors. If Sony Imaging sponsors development of a sensor the availability of that sensor may be limited to Sony Imaging. If Nikon sponsors the development of a sensor, it is feasible that Nikon would have exclusive rights to that sensor.

Nikon, like any other vendor, is free to look for solutions from other vendors, like Toshiba or Jazz Tower just to mention some examples.

Best regards
Erik

At low ISO, yes.

But the A7r2 holds up much better than the D810 - and A7r - at high ISOs. Not that the latter two are hopeless, but the difference is quite noticeable at, say, ISO 6400-12800, shooting live theatre or music using eye detection AF. The A7r2 can match the 1Dx2 and D5 image quality-wise, while the 36MP sensor lags behind.

All it takes is one leap in technology. The transition from off-chip to on-chip column-parallel A/D conversion was one such leap. CCD to CMOS was another.

BSI has the potential to deliver this - put a capacitor behind each photosite (possible due to the three-dimensional nature of the circuitry) and you're suddenly looking at possible ISOs several stops lower, and 20 stops of more of DR.

Or something replacing silicon and leading to a big improvement in quantum efficiency, leading to much less noise at the same ISO.

Or a multilayer sensor (like an improved Foveon) capable of distinguishing colour in each pixel, leading to improved colour accuracy and resolution and reduced artifacts.

I doubt Sony considers any APS-C sensors to be part of a line worth protecting and monopolising.

davidgp

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2017, 03:55:47 AM »

fake news by Democrats running I-R, they were already forced to withdrew that published interview article  ;D

Although that theory sounds like fun... Reading one Fred Miranda forums: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1481136/2#13966495 looks like IR forgot to send the interview to Sony to double check before publishing and the guy decided to delete it... If that true, he probably created more speculation doing that...

Anyway, Sony already said some years ago that some sensor designs are going to be used in exclusivity by Sony cameras https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0661793352/photokina-2014-sony-interview-we-still-need-to-create-more-lenses , probably the sensors the camera division puts a lot of requirements making an specific design...

RobertJ

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2017, 08:39:37 PM »

"Terrible!  Just found out Paul Caldwell is posting fake news stories about Sony sensors on the Luminous-Landscape forums.  SAD!" - Donald J Trump, 2017.
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Paul2660

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2017, 09:19:20 PM »

That's me, and I just got unmasked today also!!.

Paul Caldwell
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2017, 09:24:12 PM »

... :)
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NancyP

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Re: Possible change in Sony for sensor supply to other companies.
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2017, 09:31:22 PM »

Didn't Nikon or Leica have a gold plated commemorative camera a while back?
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