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Author Topic: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs  (Read 1603 times)

rollsman44

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Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« on: March 17, 2017, 08:49:18 AM »

  I have been shooting professional now for 40 years. I am looking to get into a Mirrorless system that will allow me the following:
  1- Image Quality and prints up to 16x20.  I Like to Shoot in RAW and I use LR 6 as well
  2- Easy to use Menu system ( User Friendly)
  3- Budget 2500.00 which includes Body and a wide angle lens and 1 lens for portraits.
  4- I am in the process of selling my MF Pentax 645D and a few lenses to use towards a Mirrorless system
  5- I would like an accurate Auto focus camera that works in AF. I will consider Manual focus for doing portraits.
  6- I don't mind buying Used Equipment in Excellent condition vs Buying New
     Thank you for taking the time to read this and hope to get some good recommendations.
     
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armand

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 10:38:57 AM »

I'm thinking any mirrorless would work.

How wide are you talking about? Zooms or can be primes?

john beardsworth

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 10:58:34 AM »

You're an experienced photographer. I wonder why you feel you need to ask?

I've been very impressed using a Fuji XT2 over the last 6 months, after a few years of having watched them expand their X range and admiring (from a Nikon perspective) how the system has developed. I'd have no hesitation recommending them.

Herbc

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 11:20:08 AM »

Being old and of declining vision, I would counsel a FF  or APS-c system like Sony.  The NEX 7, which is available dirt cheap is as small as mirrorless, and the FF A7R  or even the A7II might fit your budget.

I got a Pen F and some lenses after being used to a Sony system, and am seriously considering dumping it for two reasons: tiny information screen compared to Sony, and of course one has to learn a new routine to navigate the operation of all the various menus.

Younger folks may find the m43 wonderful, but I am not a fan. 8)
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 11:58:52 AM »

Fuji X. Lenses: 14 f2.8 and 56 f1.2.

Ken Bennett

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 12:01:49 PM »

Really almost any of the mirrorless systems will do what you want. I have a very nice 16x20 from an early Panasonic m4/3 camera, and it's cropped out of half the original image. Current offerings are capable of excellent image quality for prints.

I'd get one of the Fuji bodies, the excellent 14mm lens (21mm eq), and the 56mm f/1.2 lens for portraits. I'd probably toss in the 23mm f/2 as well for a solid 3-lens kit. If you get an XT1 used, they are going for a good price, even the X Pro 2 is very reasonable on the used market.

XT1, $700 used
14mm f/2.8 is $900 new, around $525 on eBay at the moment
23 f/2 is $450 new and a solid bargain (few used copies as it's so new)
56mm f/1.2 is $999 new, $750 or so on eBay

With some shopping around, I think you could stay in budget. You might also look at the 60mm macro which makes a nice portrait lens, or the new 50mm f/2, which is a great compact lens, but for me it's a little short for a primary portrait lens.

Image quality from the XT1 is good, though processing raw files from any Fuji X-Trans sensor is different from standard Bayer-pattern sensors. If I can figure it out, you can. :) The camera handles well, with plenty of physical manual controls and a decent menu interface.
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Alan Smallbone

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 12:07:37 PM »

I agree the Fuji system would meet your needs. If you don't mind a zoom, look at the 10-24mm it is f4 but has IS. A 56mm or 90mm make a good portrait lens (85 or 135mm equiv.) And all of them are excellent lenses. There are really no duds in the Fuji lineup.

Alan
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scyth

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 12:30:00 PM »

  I have been shooting professional now for 40 years. I am looking to get into a Mirrorless system that will allow me the following:
  1- Image Quality and prints up to 16x20.  I Like to Shoot in RAW and I use LR 6 as well
  2- Easy to use Menu system ( User Friendly)
  3- Budget 2500.00 which includes Body and a wide angle lens and 1 lens for portraits.
  4- I am in the process of selling my MF Pentax 645D and a few lenses to use towards a Mirrorless system
  5- I would like an accurate Auto focus camera that works in AF. I will consider Manual focus for doing portraits.
  6- I don't mind buying Used Equipment in Excellent condition vs Buying New
     Thank you for taking the time to read this and hope to get some good recommendations.
     

withing the parameters contenders are M43 and Fuji...

Fuji only has [1] a somewhat bigger sensor (less than a stop advantage as APS-C is not 2 times bigger than m43 sensor size wise and all recent sensors are the same tech from Sony Semi) and [2] 24mp vs 20mp going for it ...

while m43 has the following : 1) in body image stabilization (that is in addition to OIS in lenses) - in case of Olympus cameras that will give multishot raws for static objects + 2) shutter shock reducing options, at least with Olympus bodies (which Fuji still does not have) + 3) AF adapters for lenses from Canon EF mount for example (nobody makes AF adapters for Fuji) + 4) no issues with any raw converters with X-Trans mess

for each Fuji lens (native or from 3rd party) you have several m43 options (native from Oly or Panasonic or from 3rd party or with AF adapter from Canon EF mount)

IBIS is M43 cameras is a major boon for manual focus (EVF view will be stabilized)... here recommended 56/1.2 from Fuji is not stabilized for example...

OOC JPG colors do not count as you are a raw adept it seems

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rollsman44

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 12:34:21 PM »

  I appreciate all the recommendations. My Main Concerns are:
  1- Fuji Rangefinder??   Not sure if I will like this
  2- I use LR 6 and I don't want to hassle with converting Raw files to use in LR
  3-  Did I miss something???
   I don't require HI ISO
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razrblck

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 12:38:03 PM »

The X-Pro is styled as a rangefinder and has an optical viewfinder, but it also doubles as an EVF. The XT1 and XT2 suggested here are SLR styled instead with a fixed EVF.

XT2 files in Lightroom seem to have no issues like the early X-Trans files did, so your workflow will not be impacted.
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scyth

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 12:48:17 PM »

XT2 files in Lightroom seem to have no issues like the early X-Trans files did, so your workflow will not be impacted.

certainly when you have 24mp vs 16mp the mess is less (visible)  ;D
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rollsman44

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 01:59:44 PM »

  I did some research on the X-2 and Feedback is so very Positive and with the 16-55/2.8 lens as well. Thank you
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rdonson

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 03:21:28 PM »

XT2 files in Lightroom seem to have no issues like the early X-Trans files did, so your workflow will not be impacted.

I respectfully disagree about Lightroom CC and X-T2 RAW (RAF) files.  I really like my X-T2 but I find Lr CC lacking with the 24 MP sensor.  I simply can not bring out the best detail without generating some ugly artifacts.  I tried everything. 

To deal with Lr CC shortcomings on X-T2 RAF files I use Iridient Developer on my Mac.  I call ID from Lir using "Edit In".  IMHO opinion the demosaicing/sharpening is noticeably better.  Once I've done the RAW conversion then I'm back in Lr and other tools to finish off the photo.  Yes, this is an extra step in my workflow but the results are well worth it for me.  There is a beta version of X-Transformer from this developer for both Windows and Mac that may simplify things.  I'll be testing that soon.

There are just my opinions YMMV
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 05:52:12 PM »

Honestly, if you want a small and light kit, Olympus 45mm F/1.8 and 12mm F/2 combo with any of their bodies.  EM5mkII, EM1, or EM1mkII are my preferences.

If you want the best, EM1 mkII & 12-40mm lens.  Excellent wide and excellent portrait lens.  Small, light, excellent prints up to 24 - 30" and printable 6400 ISO. And stabilization that is amazing.  That is pushing the budget just a hair.  I have seen excellent used versions of the lens as well as the new bodies go for somewhat less than retain.  With a little patience you could potentially come in at $2500 for that setup.   

The only catch is the menu system.  BUT... Settings are customizable and presets and settings can be shared from other users.  So you can get an experienced Olympus user to share their system setup with you and you just load it and go.  Once the menu is set once, you will never menu dive again.

This is the last thing I would worry about. 

You will be shocked at how good the image quality from the 12-40 lens with their bodies is especially for the small overall footprint of the gear. 
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armand

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 08:26:03 PM »

withing the parameters contenders are M43 and Fuji...

Fuji only has [1] a somewhat bigger sensor (less than a stop advantage as APS-C is not 2 times bigger than m43 sensor size wise and all recent sensors are the same tech from Sony Semi) and [2] 24mp vs 20mp going for it ...

while m43 has the following : 1) in body image stabilization (that is in addition to OIS in lenses) - in case of Olympus cameras that will give multishot raws for static objects + 2) shutter shock reducing options, at least with Olympus bodies (which Fuji still does not have) + 3) AF adapters for lenses from Canon EF mount for example (nobody makes AF adapters for Fuji) + 4) no issues with any raw converters with X-Trans mess

for each Fuji lens (native or from 3rd party) you have several m43 options (native from Oly or Panasonic or from 3rd party or with AF adapter from Canon EF mount)

IBIS is M43 cameras is a major boon for manual focus (EVF view will be stabilized)... here recommended 56/1.2 from Fuji is not stabilized for example...

OOC JPG colors do not count as you are a raw adept it seems

I have both the Oly and the Fuji. For portraits I don't see a significant advantage of the IBIS, shutter speeds tends to stay high enough.
IBIS is nice for the primes but when you shoot stopped down you might as well use a zoom with OIS. It's nice to have IBIS but you can manage without it just fine.

The menu system in Oly is quite complicated. Their primes are smaller but you can't get as shallow DOF should you want one (you can get close if you pay a fortune and large weight penalty with their new PRO primes).

RichDesmond

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 10:39:51 PM »

With your budget, FF is off the table so that leaves APS-C and m4/3. In those formats, what matters to you? To my mind the two big factors are how the camera feels in your hand, and the lens selection. Sensor performance is similar enough to be non-issue for 99.9% of users. M4/3 wins hands down for lenses, how the camera feels is entirely up to you.
I like Panasonic m4/3 bodies and (mostly) Panasonic lenses (the new Dual IS 2 is amazing), but that's me. Your druthers may be different.
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EddieX

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2017, 12:46:20 AM »

Fuji X-T20 - $900
Fuji 14mm f2.8 - $900
Fuji 50mm f2 - $450

Total $2250

You can buy the 14mm used and save some extra cash or include the 35mm f2 for $400.
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armand

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2017, 01:49:27 PM »

I'm not sure why some keep mentioning that m43 has clearly superior lens choices vs Fuji APS-C.
Yes, there are more lenses but where is the increased focal length coverage?
What lenses do you use on m43 that you miss on Fuji?

When I was looking into the m43 lenses to buy the wide primes below 24 mm equiv were missing in action. I got a fisheye Samyang but it's not the best choice. Now at least they have a couple of zooms.
I see no equiv in m43 for wide primes (14 F2.8, 16 F1.4) and few very bright primes.

RichDesmond

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2017, 09:29:26 PM »

I'm not sure why some keep mentioning that m43 has clearly superior lens choices vs Fuji APS-C.
Yes, there are more lenses but where is the increased focal length coverage?
What lenses do you use on m43 that you miss on Fuji?

When I was looking into the m43 lenses to buy the wide primes below 24 mm equiv were missing in action. I got a fisheye Samyang but it's not the best choice. Now at least they have a couple of zooms.
I see no equiv in m43 for wide primes (14 F2.8, 16 F1.4) and few very bright primes.

An UW prime is really the only hole in the system, IMO. There are some coming though, albeit 3rd-party manual focus ones.
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armand

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Re: Choose 1 System to Accommodate my Photo needs
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2017, 10:15:23 PM »

An UW prime is really the only hole in the system, IMO. There are some coming though, albeit 3rd-party manual focus ones.

I agree. Except the wide prime the m43 is pretty well covered. What I don't get is why some think it's clearly superior to the Fuji when Fuji covers most of range equally. Less lenses, yes, but good quality ones. What Fuji is missing still is long telephoto primes.
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