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Author Topic: D5 AF  (Read 1589 times)

BernardLanguillier

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D5 AF
« on: March 11, 2017, 01:55:59 AM »

Having used a lot my h6d and Sigma SD H recently, I hadn't had the opportunity to shoot the D5 for a few weeks... I did today with both the new 70-200 f2.8 and 105mm f1.4 and was once again amazed by its AF. AF-S is not even needed on the D5, I use Af-C only and see perfect focus in most frames.

The truth is that most images shot with the 20mp D5 end up featuring more real detail than a majority of 100mp Hassy images that are typically poorely focused with equivalent lenses such as the 100mm f2.2 at f2.8. By that I mean not perfctly focused on the eye. I am speaking of mostly static subjects, as soon as there is the slightest movement the Hassy goes from 100mp to what must be less than 5.

This is of course not the case when stopping down or when using wider lenses. This is also not the case when using live view on tripod.

Very little could come close to a 50mp D850 with the AF of the D5...

Cheers,
Bernard
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shadowblade

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 02:14:51 AM »

Looking forward to an A9r with 72MP and eye-focus AF. If you want to focus on an eye, no pure phase-detection system can come close to AI-based subject recognition.

Tracking a running animal is a different matter...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2017, 03:17:16 AM »

Looking forward to an A9r with 72MP and eye-focus AF. If you want to focus on an eye, no pure phase-detection system can come close to AI-based subject recognition.

Tracking a running animal is a different matter...

In theory nothing can beat on sensor AF, but the implentation of eye tracking on the D5 is already not that bad...

Cheers,
Bernard
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razrblck

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 03:36:51 AM »

The RX100 mk.V has some amazing eye detection, if they put an even improved version on the next A7 (or A9) they have a winner for portrait photography!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 06:36:13 AM »

The RX100 mk.V has some amazing eye detection, if they put an even improved version on the next A7 (or A9) they have a winner for portrait photography!


True, I own a RX100V and it works well.

Cheers,
Bernard
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scyth

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2017, 09:30:21 AM »

In theory nothing can beat on sensor AF, but the implentation of eye tracking on the D5 is already not that bad...
it is as it is also using on sensor AF to do this... just the sensor in D5 case is a metering one
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shadowblade

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2017, 09:47:50 AM »

it is as it is also using on sensor AF to do this... just the sensor in D5 case is a metering one

Not the same technology. The D5 isn't recognising the eye at all - it's tracking the object covered by the focus point at the time tracking commenced, which just happened to be the eye. If it had been covering the shoulder, or a strand of hair covering the eye, it will track that instead. In effect, it's a 'dumb' tracking system, following whatever object it's locked onto as it changes distance from the camera. It doesn't have the capacity to follow the eye even if the software allowed it, because the AF sensor doesn't provide a picture of an eye.

Eye focus, and facial recognition, is AI-based focus. It knows what a human eye looks like (stored in the software), looks for the closest one in the image and follows that. At the moment, it's rudimentary technology (limited to eyes only) but effective at what it does. With further development, there's no reason you couldn't program it to recognise all sorts of other things (balls, various animals, vehicles, etc.) or even combine it with voice-activated commands ('follow the cheetah's eyes', 'follow the striker and take a shot when he kicks the ball', etc.). It's just a matter of processing power and AI software.
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razrblck

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2017, 12:46:59 PM »

The D5 has face detection on it's AF and metering sensor, which should be improved greatly since it has twice the amount of pixels and a faster processing unit compared to the previous generation.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2017, 04:45:42 PM »

Not the same technology. The D5 isn't recognising the eye at all - it's tracking the object covered by the focus point at the time tracking commenced, which just happened to be the eye. If it had been covering the shoulder, or a strand of hair covering the eye, it will track that instead. In effect, it's a 'dumb' tracking system, following whatever object it's locked onto as it changes distance from the camera. It doesn't have the capacity to follow the eye even if the software allowed it, because the AF sensor doesn't provide a picture of an eye.

It appears you are misunderstanding the way Nikon has implemented its AF system.

Their Af sensor is an imaging sensor with a 160,000 pxel resolution that is able to identify faces and eyes very well. Try to downres one of your images to 160,000 pixels and you'll see that faces and eyes can easily be identified by a human.

Besides... it works. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
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ben730

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 09:03:11 PM »

Bernard
You are right, the Af of the D5 is killer. But the AF of all newer Canikons is great and often more important than the resolution and the DR of the sensor.
But don't forget, every camera with it's AF has a learning curve for the photographer.
When I shot soccer and ice hockey games for newspapers, 20 years ago,
there where old school photographers with me along the line who shot the manual Leicas or the Nikon F3,
and they where a lot faster than me, with my F4s + AF.
But after some months I learned how to AF-Focus with my F4s and I was able to compete.
 
For MF I see at the moment only an advantage to use it with a Tech Cam and the best lenses.
Bernard, you should check your 100 MP back with a 23 HR, 28 HR, 32 HR etc. on a Cambo or Alpa etc.
This is in my opinion the only real advantage over the Canikons.
But also these cameras have a learning curve and the Canikons
are getting better and better......

Regards,
Ben

BernardLanguillier

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 11:28:26 PM »

Bernard
You are right, the Af of the D5 is killer. But the AF of all newer Canikons is great and often more important than the resolution and the DR of the sensor.
But don't forget, every camera with it's AF has a learning curve for the photographer.
When I shot soccer and ice hockey games for newspapers, 20 years ago,
there where old school photographers with me along the line who shot the manual Leicas or the Nikon F3,
and they where a lot faster than me, with my F4s + AF.
But after some months I learned how to AF-Focus with my F4s and I was able to compete.
 
For MF I see at the moment only an advantage to use it with a Tech Cam and the best lenses.
Bernard, you should check your 100 MP back with a 23 HR, 28 HR, 32 HR etc. on a Cambo or Alpa etc.
This is in my opinion the only real advantage over the Canikons.
But also these cameras have a learning curve and the Canikons
are getting better and better......

Regards,
Ben

Hi Ben,

Yes, indeed. I already have an Arca in H mount waiting for Hasselblad to get their act together and implement the tech camera support they promised months ago.

Regardless, the H lenses are very good also.

Cheers,
Bernard
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ben730

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 05:03:29 AM »

.... I already have an Arca in H mount waiting for Hasselblad to get their act together and implement the tech camera support they promised months ago.
...

Waiting is a pain. That's why people say with a Tech cam you need patience and time.  ;)

Regards,
Ben

scyth

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 08:33:27 AM »

Not the same technology.

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/products-and-innovation/scene-recognition-system-and-advanced-srs.html

metering sensor module aids in face detection, tracking then is done by a separate PDAF sensors module indeed - both sensors work together (when you are not in live view mode) ... just like in many dSLMs with PDAF on/in sensor (except dSLMs with no PDAF at all or Panasonics with DFD) where both things are simply combined in the main/single imaging sensor

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 06:13:37 PM »

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/products-and-innovation/scene-recognition-system-and-advanced-srs.html

metering sensor module aids in face detection, tracking then is done by a separate PDAF sensors module indeed - both sensors work together (when you are not in live view mode) ... just like in many dSLMs with PDAF on/in sensor (except dSLMs with no PDAF at all or Panasonics with DFD) where both things are simply combined in the main/single imaging sensor

Yes, exactly!

Cheers,
Bernard
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DaveCurtis

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Re: D5 AF
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2017, 07:59:14 PM »

I have recently come back from  an African wildlife photography safari. Shot over 15k of images. I was using a 5D4 and A7r2. I also had a play with a D5 and D500. I was very impressed with the Nikons.  They didnt require with same AF tuning as the Canon to get the job done. They just seemed to get the shot. The A7R2 and A6300 were way behind in terms of AF.

A typical day was up 5am back for lunch then back about 8pm. 


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