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Author Topic: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?  (Read 3060 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2017, 08:52:31 PM »

My article including analysis of this media is now published on this site.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2017, 09:07:13 PM »

My article including analysis of this media is now published on this site.
Surprised to see the OBA issue, as they claim it's the same coating with slight changes as Lyve canvas  which is OBA free.

Wayne Fox

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2017, 09:20:11 PM »

Considering how tricky most people seem to think face mounting a print to acrylic is I'm stunned that your results laminating are so much worse.  I was thinking about trying to use Glossy and Matte laminating films on paper inkjet prints with a low end manual roller but, unless there is something specific about laminating Allure, it sounds like that would just be a waste of time and money.
Face mounting to acrylic is tricky and challenging, but we've invested some time and equipment (including a pseudo clean room) to make the process reliable.

the problem with laminating the Allure is even the smallest tiny spec of dust will cause a visible bump in the high gloss surface and is much more problematic than simple laminating of an inkjet print which we do all the time. We haven't tried laminating the allure since we setup the clean room. Even without any issues with the small bumps, the scratching is still problematic.  It's really much more delicate than it sounds like it should be.

As far as Marks' review, well done, although I would mention that the allure product while it looks pretty good after printing (nice matte print), the surface of the unprotected print is extremely delicate (more so than matte paper), so it really isn't suitable to deliver without laminating or protecting the inkjet surface after printing in some way.

Here's the first face mount (7 feet long) after we setup the new "clean room".

Mark D Segal

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2017, 09:27:57 PM »

Surprised to see the OBA issue, as they claim it's the same coating with slight changes as Lyve canvas  which is OBA free.

Yes, it would appear that what they claim and what Figure 17 clearly shows do not cohere. So either those magenta spikes in the tell-tale region are valid evidence of OBAs at work, or there is some other explanation for it I'm not aware of.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Mark D Segal

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2017, 09:39:08 PM »



As far as Marks' review, well done, although I would mention that the allure product while it looks pretty good after printing (nice matte print), the surface of the unprotected print is extremely delicate (more so than matte paper), so it really isn't suitable to deliver without laminating or protecting the inkjet surface after printing in some way.


Thanks Wayne, and useful complementary information. My sense of the product is that in its really finished form the intent is that it should be laminated with their PET product to give it that metallic gloss look and feel, in which circumstance the sensitivity of the unprotected surface would probably cease to be an issue; but if the process for doing that is as delicate and tricky as you suggest, that adds another layer of challenge to get it all right.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

stockjock

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2017, 01:51:51 AM »

Face mounting to acrylic is tricky and challenging, but we've invested some time and equipment (including a pseudo clean room) to make the process reliable.

the problem with laminating the Allure is even the smallest tiny spec of dust will cause a visible bump in the high gloss surface and is much more problematic than simple laminating of an inkjet print which we do all the time. We haven't tried laminating the allure since we setup the clean room. Even without any issues with the small bumps, the scratching is still problematic.  It's really much more delicate than it sounds like it should be.

As far as Marks' review, well done, although I would mention that the allure product while it looks pretty good after printing (nice matte print), the surface of the unprotected print is extremely delicate (more so than matte paper), so it really isn't suitable to deliver without laminating or protecting the inkjet surface after printing in some way.

Here's the first face mount (7 feet long) after we setup the new "clean room".

So doing a gloss laminate film of an ink jet print might be a feasible do it yourself project for the advanced hobbyist?

Beautiful print.  Do you provide face mounting as a service or is it just for you own prints that you sell?
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mearussi

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2017, 07:32:19 PM »

we've sold hundreds of chromaluxe prints as well, and as you mentioned most for people to put on their own walls etc.  Currently they are being printed with the Epson F series dedicated dye sub printer (CMYK), good enough for most customers.  And as you mentioned far superior to the inkaid and booksmart products.  We've also had some printed by services using Sawgrass inks (6 and 8 color), in some cases we see less problems with light tones, highlight and shadow blocking, etc.

And to clarify, results are usually pretty sweet.

But there is that select group of discriminating shooter who actually sells some of their work for a decent price that expect the aluminum to look as good as a print on Epson or Canson Baryta.  I can get closer to that with the the Allure product, but the kill rate (mainly from the laminate) and work required makes it a no go.

I've settled on face mounted inkjet on TruLife acrylic or high quality paper (currently using Epson Legacy Baryta) for the work I sell.  I just don't think the aluminum is as sharp as I would like and the subtle color issues I don't want to try and resolve.  I've also quit selling on canvas ... the texture just affects the micro detail more than I would like.

Have you tried this as an alternative to a laminate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RndnubrNQRo&index=26&list=PL4TwTEPWSmle5_5ep-EfptTkG6r7sMpEu&t=12s

Also if you want to print on a canvas with almost no texture then try Canson's new Museum pro:
https://www.itsupplies.com/Canson-Museum-ProCanvas-Matte-385gsm-24-x-40-Roll-400053306
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mearussi

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2017, 08:08:23 PM »

My article including analysis of this media is now published on this site.

Wow, incredibly limited gamut volume. That plus the high OBA content make it a non starter for me. Thank you very much for the review, it has saved me a lot of time and expense doing my own experimenting.
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stockjock

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2017, 11:00:27 PM »

Have you tried this as an alternative to a laminate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RndnubrNQRo&index=26&list=PL4TwTEPWSmle5_5ep-EfptTkG6r7sMpEu&t=12s

Also if you want to print on a canvas with almost no texture then try Canson's new Museum pro:
https://www.itsupplies.com/Canson-Museum-ProCanvas-Matte-385gsm-24-x-40-Roll-400053306

I have spent the last two weeks experimenting with various resin coating options for photos.  I haven't tried ArtResin yet.  I have tried a resin called SC110 that claims similar UV resistance to ArtResin as well as Envirotex Lite and Castin Craft.  I have also tried thinning the SC110 with Lacquer thinner and Isopropyl alcohol.  So far I haven't been able to achieve satisfactory results for critical applications such as selling or gallery displays although the results are good enough for hanging on your wall at home.  Uneveness in the surface, small dust particles, and micro bubbles between the photo and the resin just seem to be the norm no matter how careful you are.  I suppose I will try ArtResin next since they claim it is a special formulation although I am skeptical about that.  If anybody has achieved results that are good enough for sale I would love to hear how they did that.
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Robcat

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2017, 01:16:20 PM »

I suppose I will try ArtResin next since they claim it is a special formulation although I am skeptical about that.  If anybody has achieved results that are good enough for sale I would love to hear how they did that.
Well, I'll tell you in 2 wks about whether the Art Resin coated image sells---that's the first show I'm going to have one in. It's quite a nice look, similar to a face mount, and I'm pleased with it.
Been experimenting with it for a little bit. Just long enough to get a couple that I'm happy to exhibit. Not long enough to pose as an expert but enough to tell you things that do and don't seem to be issues.
It's as finicky in its own way as any coating or laminating. The main things are
  • Bubbles
  • Dust
  • Edge bleed
    • It bubbles like crazy but playing a chef's torch (like for creme brulee) over the surface pops them nicely---and scares the crap out of you the first time you shoot a high temp flame onto the surface of a good print. Trick is that the bubbles reaccumulate and you have to go over it again after about 10 min. A good light is critical.
      Dust will find it---more than standard print coatings. The resin takes overnight to cure although I don't know how long it will pick up dust. I do know it starts right away so you need to work in the cleanest space you've got and then
immediately cover the print with a close-fitting box (the interior of which you have previously varnished and then blown clean in another area just prior to use). You can pick out fresh dust bits w needle or xacto blade sometimes---the resin will flow into a defect for a good 30 min. I've not been able to make a completely dust free 16 x 20 yet but I've no prob with seeing 1 or 2 little ones. If you do, then you need a clean room.

There's some odd faint edge bleed that is visible only on light colored edges (borderless of course). It looks like resin getting under the mounted print. Have tried to seal edges (eg, w polyurethane) but haven't gotten the right process yet (if your sealant gets on the print, the resin may not play nice). A standard rabbeted frame covers these.

Getting a smooth, even coating is not a problem. Just spread it reasonably carefully and it self-levels. It's THICK
Get proper 1:1 weight mix using accurate scales. Although there's no pump for their bottles, this is not a biggie
Not cheap compared to a couple coats of Clear Jet.
Worth trying if you want that super high gloss look
[/list][/list]
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stockjock

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2017, 05:37:55 PM »

Well, I'll tell you in 2 wks about whether the Art Resin coated image sells---that's the first show I'm going to have one in. It's quite a nice look, similar to a face mount, and I'm pleased with it.
Been experimenting with it for a little bit. Just long enough to get a couple that I'm happy to exhibit. Not long enough to pose as an expert but enough to tell you things that do and don't seem to be issues.
It's as finicky in its own way as any coating or laminating. The main things are
  • Bubbles
  • Dust
  • Edge bleed
    • It bubbles like crazy but playing a chef's torch (like for creme brulee) over the surface pops them nicely---and scares the crap out of you the first time you shoot a high temp flame onto the surface of a good print. Trick is that the bubbles reaccumulate and you have to go over it again after about 10 min. A good light is critical.
      Dust will find it---more than standard print coatings. The resin takes overnight to cure although I don't know how long it will pick up dust. I do know it starts right away so you need to work in the cleanest space you've got and then
immediately cover the print with a close-fitting box (the interior of which you have previously varnished and then blown clean in another area just prior to use). You can pick out fresh dust bits w needle or xacto blade sometimes---the resin will flow into a defect for a good 30 min. I've not been able to make a completely dust free 16 x 20 yet but I've no prob with seeing 1 or 2 little ones. If you do, then you need a clean room.

There's some odd faint edge bleed that is visible only on light colored edges (borderless of course). It looks like resin getting under the mounted print. Have tried to seal edges (eg, w polyurethane) but haven't gotten the right process yet (if your sealant gets on the print, the resin may not play nice). A standard rabbeted frame covers these.

Getting a smooth, even coating is not a problem. Just spread it reasonably carefully and it self-levels. It's THICK
Get proper 1:1 weight mix using accurate scales. Although there's no pump for their bottles, this is not a biggie
Not cheap compared to a couple coats of Clear Jet.
Worth trying if you want that super high gloss look
[/list][/list]

Thanks for the tips.  My results have been hit or miss when it comes to dust and sometimes bubbles seem to appear well after the 30-45 minute window when you can run a torch over the surface.  But the biggest thing that I can't figure out how to get right is a kind of waviness in the surface of the cured resin.  It looks fine viewed straight on but from a slant reflecting a bright light source the surface isn't as flat as I would like.  On a good attempt it is slightly wavy, on a bad one it looks like an orange peel.  How have your results been from that perspective?
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Yvan Bedard

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2017, 11:44:48 PM »

My article including analysis of this media is now published on this site.

Thank you very much for your great work !
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2017, 11:49:49 PM »

You are welcome.
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Robcat

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2017, 01:51:12 PM »

Thanks for the tips.  My results have been hit or miss when it comes to dust and sometimes bubbles seem to appear well after the 30-45 minute window when you can run a torch over the surface.  But the biggest thing that I can't figure out how to get right is a kind of waviness in the surface of the cured resin.  It looks fine viewed straight on but from a slant reflecting a bright light source the surface isn't as flat as I would like.  On a good attempt it is slightly wavy, on a bad one it looks like an orange peel.  How have your results been from that perspective?
Haven't had that problem. The finished surface seems quite flat---reflections are razor sharp. I have sometimes gotten waves within 1/2 cm of the edge where the resin appears to have dripped off unevenly. Never gotten orange peel (which I manage to do with most other coatings >:(). Are you using the full amount of resin specified (I believe 4 oz resin + 4 oz hardener for 1 sq ft). This looks like way too much but it's not, and too little coating might not self-level adequately and give you orange peel. 
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stockjock

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2017, 03:17:07 AM »

Haven't had that problem. The finished surface seems quite flat---reflections are razor sharp. I have sometimes gotten waves within 1/2 cm of the edge where the resin appears to have dripped off unevenly. Never gotten orange peel (which I manage to do with most other coatings >:(). Are you using the full amount of resin specified (I believe 4 oz resin + 4 oz hardener for 1 sq ft). This looks like way too much but it's not, and too little coating might not self-level adequately and give you orange peel.

I haven't tried ArtResin yet.  I've experimented with a few other resins with mostly unsatisfactory results.  The ArtResin site actually specifies 5 oz total for 1 sq foot.  And my experiments with the other resins to suggest that having enough is important.  If you are getting a perfectly flat surface with no micro bubbles or waviness then I guess ArtResin's high price would be justified.
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bgasser

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 07:03:13 AM »

Back nine months ago I did a review of the Allure product and  posted it in the Dpreview printer forum (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57963696). My findings were that this product was not yet ready for prime time and that you would have the same if not better results mounting your favorite paper prints on a sheet of aluminum or composite material such as Dibond. As well, it was extremely disheartening to see how soft the coating was. I literally drug the corner of a print on enhanced matte over the print and the surface became scratched or marred. This defect then was enhanced when the laminate was put on. As far as color was concerned, I did not have enough material from their sample pack to produce a profile, so I ended up just guessing what profile to use on my Epson 9890, but in reality with the other inconveniences of the product it became apparent that color was not going to matter.

As for the quality and consistency of Dye Sub metal prints on Chromaluxe, I have produced prints on this medium for a few years now and have had very consistent results with very high quality prints. Like anything in life, the output is purely dependent on the input provided. The quality of output that i can get from a high quality file on a Chromaluxe Dye Sub print can be seen in the attached sample image taken by Alexander Flemming with a Phase One XF 100mp. This is an  11x14 crop of a 30x40 metal print. It was scanned on my desktop scanner, so color is not accurate, but evidence of detail produced on a Dye sub print is shown.


Ben Gasser
Metal Mouth Prints
Kansas City
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RenMar805

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2017, 12:48:57 AM »

I assume they would have written it if it was OBA-free. So, I believe it is not.

Thanks a lot for your final decision of not offering it to your clients, it tells a lot !

Yvan

To clear up any confusion as to whether these panels have OBAs, the answer is yes, they do. An examination of the panels with a UV light confirms the presence of OBAs. In addition, I posed this question to the Breathing Color support manager in response to one of their blog posts entitled Aqueous vs. Dye Sub Metal: Round 2 – White Point and Contrast.

https://www.breathingcolor.com/blog/aqueous-vs-dye-sub-white-point/

Check the Disqus comments below the post to read his response to my comments. He confirmed the presence of OBAs in the coating, but noted that dye sub metal panels also contain OBAs.  :-\

This comparison seemed a bit strange to me, as one of the main benefits is supposed to be the use of longer lasting pigment inks compared to dye sub inks. Obviously the benefit of using pigment inks will be offset by the presence of optical brightening agents over time, depending on display conditions. It is doubtful the laminate film offers much in the way of protection.

Hopefully we will see some data on lightfastness tests in order to compare them to the reformulated ChromaLuxe aluminum sub photo panels which, according to Wilhelm, are now rated at 65 years (display permanence rating).

Breathing Color informed me they were conducting internal lightfastness tests on these panels; however, no results are yet available. Hope this helps.
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Renee M. Besta

Mark D Segal

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2017, 07:08:11 AM »

To clear up any confusion as to whether these panels have OBAs,

There was never any confusion to start with. I said so in my review of this product on this website. There are very simple tests for detecting OBAs and I implemented one of them. See Figure 17 in this article: BCAllure OBA
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Yvan Bedard

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2017, 09:39:04 AM »

To clear up any confusion as to whether these panels have OBAs, the answer is yes, they do. An examination of the panels with a UV light confirms the presence of OBAs. In addition, I posed this question to the Breathing Color support manager in response to one of their blog posts entitled Aqueous vs. Dye Sub Metal: Round 2 – White Point and Contrast.

https://www.breathingcolor.com/blog/aqueous-vs-dye-sub-white-point/

Check the Disqus comments below the post to read his response to my comments. He confirmed the presence of OBAs in the coating, but noted that dye sub metal panels also contain OBAs.  :-\

Thank you Renée. I listened all of your podcasts at BC since their beginning and love them! You provide very useful information based on a rich experience. Very helpful ! I'm a big fan of BC products but not ready yet to commit to Allure. Aluminum photos and acrylic photos don't sell very well here, art buyers prefer canvas and fine art paper which are considered a better investment in art.
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RenMar805

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Re: Has anyone tried Breathing Color Allure photo panels ?
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2017, 09:13:30 PM »

Thank you Renée. I listened all of your podcasts at BC since their beginning and love them! You provide very useful information based on a rich experience. Very helpful ! I'm a big fan of BC products but not ready yet to commit to Allure. Aluminum photos and acrylic photos don't sell very well here, art buyers prefer canvas and fine art paper which are considered a better investment in art.

Thanks so much, Yvan. Happy to hear you've found them useful. There is always so much more to learn, and this forum is an invaluable source of information for all of us.

In terms of the metal panels, I'm hoping we'll see some lightfastness data to compare the Allure with ChromaLuxe. I did recommend BC have Aardenburg test the panels prior to their release. My understanding is that once a product is on the market, any testing data from Aardenburg, whether favorable or unfavorable, is made public.

Thanks again and best wishes.








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