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Author Topic: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating  (Read 798 times)

schrimsher2017

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Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« on: March 05, 2017, 03:41:32 PM »

I searched the archives for info about using BC's Crystalline canvas without coating, but almost all of the feedback was 4 or 5 years old when it first came out.  Does anyone have more recent experience and do you coat it or not, and why?  The difference in longevity of 55 years vs 75-100 for Lyve is not important to my clients.  Thanks, in advance, for your insights.
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hugowolf

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2017, 10:23:14 PM »

If you are dry mounting it, then it is fine without coating. If you are stretching it, then I had problems without coating: cracking, scuffing, at corners.

Brian A
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schrimsher2017

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 05:38:26 AM »

I am stretching it.
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Paul2660

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 07:26:02 AM »

I regularly stretch Crystalline without coating it. I agree you need to be careful around the corners and use a padded surface.

Paul Caldwell
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vjbelle

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 07:49:11 AM »

I have used Crystalline without coating and I always stretch without any extra care for the corners.  I have had no issues.  Its not my favorite paper and I have switched to Epson Exhibition Canvas for most of my work which has a whiter surface and comes out of my 8400 without stretch issues. 

Victor
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bill t.

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 04:46:42 PM »

IMHO a lifetime of 55 years on the wall would be wildly optimistic for a stretched canvas of any kind, with any amount of coating.

FWIW I have been using BC17M for the infrequent canvas orders I get.  It is claimed to not require coating.  Although the dmax is in the teens, those dark tones are extremely deep looking.   Very impressive on the wall with a generally Crystalline-ish appearance with high contrast and very saturated colors.

Stretches well soon (like about 1 hour) after spraying with one coat of solvent based Premiere Print Shield, at about 6 ml per coated square foot with the gun dialed down to minimize overspray and bounce.  I believe that coating is worth it for any canvas application because it de-hazes the darker tones and adds very important protection from household cleaning sprays which can quickly destroy any uncoated glossy canvas.  Think of coating as chemical Clarity.  Glamour II or Timeless would probably work as well.  Don't try Premiere Print Shield unless you are properly equipped for solvent spraying.

Love the 75 foot rolls.  2" core, not so in love with that but no curling issues so far.

Very fine, symmetric texture almost like a fine art paper.  The 17mil thickness passes through my 8400 with zero edge curl and zero head strikes, even when the roll has been loaded for several days.  I'm almost at the end of my first roll with no surface defects and no handling incidents so far.  5 out of 5 stars for printer handling.

The glossy version may be too glossy or too sparkly for some people, the satin finish may be the better fine art choice.
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Yvan Bedard

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 09:15:14 AM »

I use it regularly on less expensive prints without archival quality and I have no problem at all. I mostly dry mount them but once in a while I stretch them. No issue insofar.
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holden

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 02:33:04 AM »

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but my experience has been that the no-coating-required thing is primarily marketing copy.

Granted, it's not as if the ink falls off of the canvas without at least some intervention from an external entity, but the slightest touch/bump/chaff seems to make ink start to flake. Stretching it invited catastrophe. I'd say this applies to my experience with Crystalline, Silverada and 17M. Recent experience, rolls of each purchased about a year ago.  After reading the rest of these posts I'll bet that I'm doing it wrong but I'm de-gassing, being gentle, my bars are smooth and sanded, I don't think I'm particularly savage with the pliers. Velvet cover on the stretching table even.

I like the look of each of these canvasses, and after a few coats of any one of several varnishes delivered via HVLP and they are sufficiently hardy to survive all types of indignities. But my go-to media are Lyve or ECM these days.


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Paul Roark

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 11:10:32 AM »

IMHO a lifetime of 55 years on the wall would be wildly optimistic for a stretched canvas of any kind, with any amount of coating. ...

Bill,

What do you expect to fail in a canvas display?  Is it the need to re-stretch due to sag, or are there other issues with canvas that limit its life?

(I print black and white with a predominately carbon ink, so fading is not an issue for me.  Substrate failure would be a problem, however.)

Thanks,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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bill t.

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 12:31:20 AM »

^

Here's the partial list.

Cracking varnish everywhere as it hardens, starting with the edges and corners.  I think keeping down the number and thickness of individual coats may be helpful in this regard.

Relaxation of the stretch, with ultimate complete fatiguing of the canvas after many stretches.  Up to a point stretch can be restored with corner wedges, but after a few wedge adjustments the entire canvas will need to be re-stapled to avoid over stretching the corners.  Failure to re-staple is why so many old canvases have rippled corners.  Repeatedly using the water spray stretch trick may be not a good idea over the very long term.

Differential shrinking and swelling of the individual layers of canvas, receptor, ink, and varnish.

Exposure of the unprotected canvas back to air pollutants and humidity cycling.  One can coat both sides of the canvas before stretching, maybe that would help.  Or maybe that would just make the canvas stick to the bars.

Foxing of the canvas from chemistry in the stretcher bars.  The commonly used pine stretcher bars are the biggest offenders, but even kiln-dried basswood is still reactive to a degree.  Varnish the stretcher bars?  Maybe.  Or perhaps use archival isolation tape.

Warping stretcher bars.  For enough money very stable bar systems can be purchased if you have the budget.  But affordable stretcher bars will eventually warp.

Physical damage.  A lot can happen over the years.  I have many canvases installed in a local health care system, a lot of them have taken serious hits from various rolling medical devices.

And of course fading for ordinary inkjet prints.  Canvases often wind up in public places with UV-rich fluorescent lighting.  And even for fade-proof inks, localized heating from spotlights aggravates mechanical issues.

I made that 50 year quip because I recently looked closely at a lot of Taos School paintings from the early 1900s.  Most of them were in deteriorated physical condition after less than a century in relatively benign environments.  The biggest issues were desiccated canvas backs that made further stretching risky, canvas tears that had developed in situ, rust spreading out from staples, and chemical edge foxing and physical abrasion from stretcher bars and wood frames.  Add to those amateur repair attempts that had simply made matters worse--think packing tape and Elmer's Glue.  Those issues have effective but very expensive conservation solutions.
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Paul Roark

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2017, 10:54:09 AM »

Thanks Bill.

I'm planning on mounting a show that has canvas adhered to acid free foam core with Scotch 77 and then framed.  I'll be using solvent based Print Shield.  I think the stretching issues disappear, but the differential expansion and contraction remain.  These are issues that affect all laminates, including standard inkjet paper and wet darkroom silver prints -- which is why I consider my 100% carbon on Arches watercolor paper, mounted under museum glass, to be my most archival black and white print product.  Then again, most buyers really don't care much about what happens 50 years from now.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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bill t.

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Re: Using BC Crystalline canvas without coating
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2017, 05:37:30 PM »

I won't belabor the Scotch 77, except to say it shouldn't be considered either a long term mounting solution or archival.  Check http://www.thegrumble.com about that.  I like solvent Print Shield because it is so easy to use, and so easy to clean up, and it dries fast, and it is very transparent.  But note that others here have reported cracking-while-stretching issues with Print Shield coated canvases, my solution being to stretch within the first 1/2 to 1 hour after coating with a single, exactly-right coat.  For mounting you can wait any amount of time.

If you are using the 77 + foamcore format, I suspect you will get some minor warping, but hopefully not enough that framing won't flatten out the art.  With water based glues like Miracle Muck you would get severe, permanent warping right away, which is why rigid Gatorfoam is the better pick for water based glues.  I suggest making a test piece and letting it age for a month or so before mounting a full show.  Also, 77 may out gas for a while so it might be wise to let some time pass between mounting and framing to avoid hazing the glazing.
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