Profiling Metallic Paper

[Rainer SLP]

Hi,

I just started some printing on MOAB Metallic Silver 300grs paper and the first thing I wnated to make is to profile my EPSON SC P7000.

Well and for my surprise i1Profiler just hang up in the middle of the process (@ 56%) when making the profile and never finished it. So I thought there is something wrong with the software and measured some other samples I had and there i1Profiler worked as it should and finished my profiles.

Anyone had this problem too ?

I already contacted X-Rite and yes they wrote me that metallic paper is dificult to profile and they are working on it.

I know MOAB delivers profiles for my printer, but from a former experience with Canvas 450grs from Harman Hahnemühle I do not have great trust in the profiles delivered by the Paper makers. For example on the mentioned Canvas from Harman I already saw the difference on my Monitor from the canned profile to my own profile. Afterwards after printing the print looked as on my Monitor so this means for me I will always invest in 2-3 feet of paper/canvas/film/etc. for making my own printing profiles.

Thanks and regards

[Mark D Segal]

XRite's i1Pro2 and i1Profiler cannot handle this paper. Isis2 may be able to do so. But don't worry about it. Use the MOAB profile. This isn't a paper you're using for accuracy. It's for artistic effect and their profile is acceptable in that context.

[Rainer SLP]

XRite's i1Pro2 and i1Profiler cannot handle this paper. Isis2 may be able to do so. But don't worry about it. Use the MOAB profile. This isn't a paper you're using for accuracy. It's for artistic effect and their profile is acceptable in that context.

Thank you Mark.

Yes I am testing this paper and trying to find the best way to use it. A customer asked me if I print on it. He did send me an image and I printed it with the canned profile.

As you said, it is not an easy paper and I think the marriage Motif/Paper is very very important in order that the prints really look like expected, better said get a WOW out of the viewers mouth :-)

And as said somewhere, Whatever the customers wants he will get it :-)

Let us see what X-Rite comes up with :-)

Thanks and regards

[Mark D Segal]

You are welcome. Stayed tuned on the LuLa website. There will be a large article from me on a number of papers including this one in the not too distant future.

[Rainer SLP]

You are welcome. Stayed tuned on the LuLa website. There will be a large article from me on a number of papers including this one in the not too distant future.

Great :-) and Thanks

[Doug Gray]

Hi,

I just started some printing on MOAB Metallic Silver 300grs paper and the first thing I wnated to make is to profile my EPSON SC P7000.

Well and for my surprise i1Profiler just hang up in the middle of the process (@ 56%) when making the profile and never finished it. So I thought there is something wrong with the software and measured some other samples I had and there i1Profiler worked as it should and finished my profiles.

Anyone had this problem too ?

I already contacted X-Rite and yes they wrote me that metallic paper is dificult to profile and they are working on it.

I know MOAB delivers profiles for my printer, but from a former experience with Canvas 450grs from Harman Hahnemühle I do not have great trust in the profiles delivered by the Paper makers. For example on the mentioned Canvas from Harman I already saw the difference on my Monitor from the canned profile to my own profile. Afterwards after printing the print looked as on my Monitor so this means for me I will always invest in 2-3 feet of paper/canvas/film/etc. for making my own printing profiles.

Thanks and regards

I agree with Mark. Profiles are of questionable value with metallic paper. Profiles assume a lambertian surface except for the small, specular effects from gloss. To do this, they illuminate from 45 degree angles and read at right angles to the paper. Metallic paper is designed with enhanced specular effects so the color from an ICC profile will be substantially shifted when viewed so that you get the metallic effect.

That said, you might have some luck using a smaller number of patches, possibly as low at a couple hundred. This might enable I1Profiler to generate a usable profile. I've had luck getting a profile out of low quality laserjet printers doing that where a large patch count would fail.  A large patch set can fail because the colors may not be uniform enough. Still, you'd likely be ok just using MOAB profiles

[ralfe89]

For my Canon Pixma Pro 100 I created a custom profile for Bonjet SuperMetallic Pearl paper. I tried Spyder print which didn't create a usable profile (and had much other problems with normal pearl and matt papers). With X-Rite ColorMunki Photo I got some usable results and the output differs not that much from the monitor display.
And it was really easy to do

[krismaz]

As Dough said the problem lies with the device. To create a good accurate profile you would need to measure the patches with a device that has integrated sphere geometry instead of standard 45 degree one. Such device allows to exclude specular reflection from the measurement data. In effect you would have an accurate profile for the 'base' of the paper and the metallic effect would be just on top of that. Xrite has such devices on offer (used in car industry for example to measure metallic paint). Needles to say cost is much higher than for i1pro and you need software that would work with it. In practical terms if the canned moab profiles work for you stick with that.

[Rainer SLP]

I agree with Mark. Profiles are of questionable value with metallic paper. Profiles assume a lambertian surface except for the small, specular effects from gloss. To do this, they illuminate from 45 degree angles and read at right angles to the paper. Metallic paper is designed with enhanced specular effects so the color from an ICC profile will be substantially shifted when viewed so that you get the metallic effect.

That said, you might have some luck using a smaller number of patches, possibly as low at a couple hundred. This might enable I1Profiler to generate a usable profile. I've had luck getting a profile out of low quality laserjet printers doing that where a large patch count would fail.  A large patch set can fail because the colors may not be uniform enough. Still, you'd likely be ok just using MOAB profiles

Hi Doug,

Thanks. I was using 540 patches which is what I use for all my papers when profiling. As written before let us see what does X-Rite answer to my inquiry.

[Rainer SLP]

For my Canon Pixma Pro 100 I created a custom profile for Bonjet SuperMetallic Pearl paper. I tried Spyder print which didn't create a usable profile (and had much other problems with normal pearl and matt papers). With X-Rite ColorMunki Photo I got some usable results and the output differs not that much from the monitor display.
And it was really easy to do

Hi Ralfe,

Thank you.

[aaronchan]

Hi Ralfe,

Thank you.

Hi Guys,

Just read the whole thread and I've heard it is quite hard to profile the metallic paper.
I have just received some Photo Rag Metallic sample paper from Hahnemuhle.
I haven't profiled it yet but wonder does it create the same problem as the Moab Metallic paper?
Also, just wondering, do you guys think a M3 measurement with a polarizer filter would help to create the profile, just like how people calibrate UV printing directly on aluminium sheets.

Thanks
Aaron

[StoryinPictures]

Was there any further progress on getting successful profiles?