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Author Topic: iMac - how good are they?  (Read 15689 times)

jayz

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iMac - how good are they?
« on: July 30, 2006, 10:41:01 pm »

i'm torn between going mac or upgrading my PC.  I'm looking at getting either a 3.0ghz, 2gb memory, 320 HD system from Dell for $1300cdn or shelling out considerably more for an iMac - the 20 inch 2ghz system with a 250gb HD with 512mb of ram sells for $1899cdn.

Which is a better system for photography.


i have heard that a 2ghz iMac performs better then a 3 ghz PC.  is that true?

how much ram is needed with the iMac if it is the better choice, if i'm using CS2 and canon's DPP?  

the RAM upgrade for iMac seems a lot more expensive then for a PC. 1-1GB stick is $120 and 2GB is $360 - does that make any sense?? why is a second stick more then double in price on athe iMac?

btw, i have never used a mac b4, will it be hard to learn?

Some other questions regarding the iMac.   i noticed the mac only has 3 usb ports, is that enough, given 2 are going to be used by the mouse and keyboard?

is the  advertised airport extreme, a built in wireless system?  does that mean i can still get wireless at home with this?  If i have a PC hooked up to a cable modem, will i be able to use the iMac on wireless?

will i need to purchase any additional software for the iMac?  i know i will have to get CS2 and any other photo software, but will i need any other operating system or macafee or explorer or anything like that specifically for the mac?
appreciate advice of more experienced users!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 10:45:26 pm by jayz »
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erikhillard

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iMac - how good are they?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2006, 12:11:38 am »

Quote
how much ram is needed with the iMac if it is the better choice, if i'm using CS2 and canon's DPP? 

Some other questions regarding the iMac.   i noticed the mac only has 3 usb ports, is that enough, given 2 are going to be used by the mouse and keyboard?

is the  advertised airport extreme, a built in wireless system?  does that mean i can still get wireless at home with this?  If i have a PC hooked up to a cable modem, will i be able to use the iMac on wireless?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72196\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can't speak about speed performance versus the Dell, but I know quite a few people with iMacs that are very happy with them.

My personal opinion is to max the RAM in any machine I buy.
RAM is significantly cheaper if you don't buy it direct from Apple.
Check prices at macsales.com or crucial.com

3 USB ports should be fine.  The keyboard/mouse will only take one as the keyboard has a built in USB hub with two USB ports.  You plug your mouse in there.

Airport is a built in wireless system and the computer can connect to an existing wireless network.
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klsoren

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iMac - how good are they?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2006, 03:27:34 am »

Quote
Which is a better system for photography.
i have heard that a 2ghz iMac performs better then a 3 ghz PC.  is that true?

...

btw, i have never used a mac b4, will it be hard to learn?

...

will i need to purchase any additional software for the iMac?  i know i will have to get CS2 and any other photo software, but will i need any other operating system or macafee or explorer or anything like that specifically for the mac?
appreciate advice of more experienced users!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi jayz!

It's really difficult to speak about one system being faster than the other in terms of Mhz. This only makes any real good sense in heavy calculation programs - like movie rendering and such. Normal use (including Photoshop) is as much affected by the quality of the program and the operating system.

It is gennerally true that a Mac normally seems to perform better on relatively "fewer" Mhz. But this is mostly because it is delivered with a better operating system.

Yes, you will need to buy other photo software, like Photoshop. What you do not need to buy is the operating system, since this is delivered with the computer. You also don't need macafee, since viruses is much less a problem than on Windows systems. Apple has packed the computer for you, ready to use. That - along with higher quality - is what you pay for.

No, it is certainly not difficult to learn to use a Mac. It is a bit different from a Windows system, but you'll quickly get a hang of it (and never return). I read few, if any, post from people that get tired with a Mac and return to Windows.

If you like to get a glimpse of how it works, look at the tutorials at [a href=\"http://screencastsonline.com/sco/]ScreenCastsOnline[/url]. Don McAllister has made some tutorials describing a Mac that will make the transition easy for you. Look at the full show list and search for the "OSX Basics" shows.

Please write again if you need other questions answered.
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francois

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iMac - how good are they?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2006, 03:54:14 am »

Quote
i'm torn between going mac or upgrading my PC.  I'm looking at getting either a 3.0ghz, 2gb memory, 320 HD system from Dell for $1300cdn or shelling out considerably more for an iMac - the 20 inch 2ghz system with a 250gb HD with 512mb of ram sells for $1899cdn.

Which is a better system for photography.
i have heard that a 2ghz iMac performs better then a 3 ghz PC.  is that true?

how much ram is needed with the iMac if it is the better choice, if i'm using CS2 and canon's DPP? 

the RAM upgrade for iMac seems a lot more expensive then for a PC. 1-1GB stick is $120 and 2GB is $360 - does that make any sense?? why is a second stick more then double in price on athe iMac?

btw, i have never used a mac b4, will it be hard to learn?

Some other questions regarding the iMac.   i noticed the mac only has 3 usb ports, is that enough, given 2 are going to be used by the mouse and keyboard?

is the  advertised airport extreme, a built in wireless system?  does that mean i can still get wireless at home with this?  If i have a PC hooked up to a cable modem, will i be able to use the iMac on wireless?

will i need to purchase any additional software for the iMac?  i know i will have to get CS2 and any other photo software, but will i need any other operating system or macafee or explorer or anything like that specifically for the mac?
appreciate advice of more experienced users!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Remember that new Intel iMacs (and MacBook  & MacBook Pro) can boot in Windows with [a href=\"http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/]Apple's Boot Camp[/url] (free) or run Windows along your Mac OS with Parallels Desktop ($79).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 03:55:08 am by francois »
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Francois

digitaldog

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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 08:59:49 am »

A gig stick of ram for the new iMac is only $99 here:

http://www.transintl.com/store/category.cfm?Category=9

You'll need two.

I popped in 2 gigs in my Intel 20" iMac and recommend you do the same. It's very easy to do yourself, don't buy the RAM from Apple (they charge way too much).
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Rokcet Scientist

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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 03:08:51 pm »

Quote from: jayz,Jul 30 2006, 09:41 PM
[...] Dell for $1300cdn or shelling out considerably more for an iMac - the 20 inch 2ghz system with a 250gb HD with 512mb of ram sells for $1899cdn. [...][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Jay,

I submit that when you get a bare PC for $1300cdn you are only STARTING to spend...: you will still have to kit it out with an OS, graphics card, all kinds of software, and RAM, before you can actually use it a little bit.
Add that to the cost.
And PC's age really quickly: you'll have to get a new one within 2 years.
Add that to the cost too!

An iMac, however, may set you back $1899, BUT that is inclusive of the OS, the graphics card, and a whole suite of excellent software. Put it on your desktop, plug it in, and away you go! It works !
That iMac will serve you well for 3/4 years, at least!
You'll only need to add RAM and, if you need them, specialist applications, like Photoshop.

However, iMacs can run Windows just as easily as MacOSX (or Linux for that matter). So you can simply keep using your Windows version of Photoshop. Another 500 bucks saved.
Quote
Which is a better system for photography.
Look at pro photographers and what systems they use: 90% Macs!
Quote
how much ram is needed with the iMac if it is the better choice, if i'm using CS2 and canon's DPP?
For non-pro use 1.5GB is probably more than enough.
Quote
the RAM upgrade for iMac seems a lot more expensive then for a PC. 1-1GB stick is $120 and 2GB is $360 - does that make any sense?? why is a second stick more then double in price on athe iMac?
Get third-party RAM. Much cheaper.
Quote
btw, i have never used a mac b4, will it be hard to learn?
Quite the contrary: within an hour you will chide yourself for not moving to the Mac years ago...
Quote
Some other questions regarding the iMac.   i noticed the mac only has 3 usb ports, is that enough, given 2 are going to be used by the mouse and keyboard?
That's more than enough: only the keyboard needs one. And the keyboard itself has 2 more USB ports. For a mouse, if you need it. Because Apple is launching a wireless bluetooth mouse in a couple weeks.
Quote
is the  advertised airport extreme, a built in wireless system?
Yes.
Quote
does that mean i can still get wireless at home with this?
Yes.
Quote
If i have a PC hooked up to a cable modem, will i be able to use the iMac on wireless?
Yes.
Quote
will i need to purchase any additional software for the iMac?
No, you don't need to. It's got everything in the box.
Quote
i know i will have to get CS2
No, you don't. Your current CS2/PS runs on XP. iMacs run XP.
[/quote]and any other photo software,[/quote]
There is a lot of excellent free software for the Mac available on the WWW.
([a href=\"http://www.versiontracker.com/php/search.php?mode=basic&action=search&str=photo&plt%5B%5D=macosx&x=0&y=0]Versiontracker[/url] (<– click!) alone has a couple hundred already).
Quote
but will i need any other operating system
You'll need XP if you want to run your current CS2/PS. But you've got that, don't you?
Quote
or macafee
No, you can keep your money in your pocket (and sleep  a lot easier than today...): there are no viruses, Trojans or Worms for Macs!
Sophos, who make a living selling you antivirus software, recently admitted it clearly: Sophos Security Threat Management Report Update July 2006
Quote
or explorer or anything like that specifically for the mac?
No. Explorer for the Mac is in the bundle, but you don't want to use that ! And you don't have to either: Safari is excellent (IE can't hold a candle to it), and there are 6 or 7 just as excellent alternatives. All free!
Quote
appreciate advice of more experienced users!
Have fun!
RS
(Mac user since 1985)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 04:24:28 pm by Rokcet Scientist »
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kbolin

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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2006, 07:56:25 pm »

I've been a Windows user for years... but have now convinced myself to buy a Mac in September.  I went to a Mac store (West World Computers in Edmonton) and the sales rep was wonderful in showing me many of the things about a Mac that would make my life easier.  I WAS TOTALLY CONVINCED.

If there is any $$ savings in a Windows PC vs. a Mac they will be chewed up quickly with the savings the Mac will give you in pure efficiency.    Just one example: Did you know there is no Uninstall programs on a Mac?  I didn't... drag the application to the trashcan and voila... you're done.

After my review I'm buying a Mac.  I still work in the corporate world so I'll still have a couple of PC's around for other tasks but I'll probably just use Remote Desktop to them to get my other work done.
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stevenrk

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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2006, 10:16:20 pm »

You'll be fine either way.  Truth is these days there's not much difference for photo applications -- the applications you mention work in both really well.  As can be seen from the thread, Apple users seem very loyal, and you have to decide what that counts for and whether that appeals to you.

All the more so as both platforms are now using the same hardware, so it's really down to a similar choice as you would make deciding which RAW software suits you best or -- as Apple has made easy to do in part by switching over to intel -- deciding you want them all.  With the exception of Leaf Capture which is still only made for the MAC at the moment, and would be the deciding factor if you're using a Leaf MF back.

Some think that the Apple interface/gestalt is cooler.  Again the question is whether this matters to you, and if so, whether you agree.  Some think that XP is more customizable and can be more easily minimalized (easier to get rid of noisy icons, selection bars, bells and whistles, etc) but less cool if you like an off-the-moment look.

Also it's true that the Apple OS is more integrated and takes less tweaking than XP, but  getting past that is not really that big a deal if you know your way around a computer a bit.  If you don't -- or don't want to keep on having to -- that can make a difference.  The other thing to consider is that Vista is on its way, and if like past launches, will cause problems for the first couple of years -- the Apple OS is stable for the moment, and it's taken a couple of generations.

On memory, the more the better for both and both cost about the same (assuming you don't need the security of Apple branded memory).  Really, if you have memory and a good well calibrated screen (Apple screens are that, but there are plenty of others for both the MAC and PC) you'll be set.
 
As to other software, depends what you have and what you need.  Likely you will end up buying the Word/WP type of software regardless, even though Apple free software is better.  

So bottom line, does Apple make you feel cool and does the OS give you a bit of a smile?  If so, then what is that worth to you and do you want to spend it?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 10:17:17 pm by stevenrk »
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PlatonicCaveman

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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2006, 11:48:41 pm »

Quote
<snip>
You'll be fine either way. 

I would agree you will be fine either way...however consider that in the PC market, Intel and AMD are going at each other guns blazing. The new Dual Core releases from Intel are smoking everything at prices that are falling rapidly.  While Apple is now running Intel CPUs, it will likely be sometime before you see  the benefit of these processors on that platform.

Personally Vista will be staying on a lot of shelves based on initial reports.  XP Pro is both extremely stable and requires much less hardware than Vista...For the next 18 to 24 months, I am recommending my corporate customers stay with XP and put a few dollars in hardware.

A good ASUS motherboard, a Dual core processor, and 2 to 4 GB memory and you have the core of a great PC for not very much money.  Add a couple of inexpensive SATA drives and a decent but not obscene video card...and away you go.  Personally I run 2 - 160GB SATA 3.0 in a RAID 0 config (total of 300 GB online) and run nightly backups to another internal 300GB single drive.  Total drive cost is less than $250 and the RAID 0 config is lightning fast.

Macs are nice...but you can build a faster system for less money...without having to be a rocket scientist.

Not trying to start a Mac vs PC thing...just trying to be helpful and pointing out a couple of other options...
 
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dlashier

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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006, 12:44:46 am »

Quote
The new Dual Core releases from Intel are smoking everything at prices that are falling rapidly.  While Apple is now running Intel CPUs, it will likely be sometime before you see  the benefit of these processors on that platform.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is August anytime soon?
[a href=\"http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0605intelxserves.html]http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0605intelxserves.html[/url]

- DL
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Rokcet Scientist

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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2006, 02:59:34 pm »

Quote
[...] While Apple is now running Intel CPUs, it will likely be sometime before you see  the benefit of these processors on that platform. [...][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Looks like you missed quite a bit of the party, caveman...
4 out of 5 Apple computers have Intel Core processors;
3 of those have Intel Core Duo processors.
I'll bet the Intel Core Duo processors will be uprated to Intel Core Duo 2, before the end of August. And that the PowerMac will get even two of those – yes, that's four processors in one box!
And when Apple announces new models and/or specs, they are usually available to the market within 1 or 2 weeks.

[a href=\"http://www.apple.com/hardware/]Check the Apple hardware yourself here.[/url]

 
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jayz

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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2006, 03:08:30 pm »

I'd like to thank everyone for the advise. sounds like apple is the way to go.
just have one other question.  if i want to use CS2 for windows (or even excel or word for that matter). do i need to install anything else on the apple to make the windows versions useable?

actually, one other question as well.  sounds like apple will be releasing something in the next few weeks. does anyone know if any upgrades are expected that will still be in the same price range as the 20" iMac, that would make it worth my while to suffer a few more weeks?
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francois

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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 03:28:03 pm »

Quote
I'd like to thank everyone for the advise. sounds like apple is the way to go.
just have one other question.  if i want to use CS2 for windows (or even excel or word for that matter). do i need to install anything else on the apple to make the windows versions useable?

actually, one other question as well.  sounds like apple will be releasing something in the next few weeks. does anyone know if any upgrades are expected that will still be in the same price range as the 20" iMac, that would make it worth my while to suffer a few more weeks?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You will have to install either Parallels Desktop ($79) or Apple's Boot Camp (free). With Boot Camp you get a dual boot computer. With Paralles, you'll be able to run Windows software alongside Mac OS X. I have very little experience with Photoshop and these two pieces of software. You can read macWolrd's review of Parallels [a href=\"http://www.macworld.com/2006/06/reviews/parallels/index.php]here[/url].

As for new hardware, you should wait WWDC (August 7-11) and see what's announced during the conference.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 03:32:18 pm by francois »
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Francois

PlatonicCaveman

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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2006, 03:31:15 pm »

Quote
Looks like you missed quite a bit of the party, caveman...
4 out of 5 Apple computers have Intel Core processors;
3 of those have Intel Core Duo processors.
I'll bet the Intel Core Duo processors will be uprated to Intel Core Duo 2, before the end of August. And that the PowerMac will get even two of those – yes, that's four processors in one box!
And when Apple announces new models and/or specs, they are usually available to the market within 1 or 2 weeks.

Check the Apple hardware yourself here.

 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72341\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I need to clarify...sorry...I was specifically addressing the Core Duo 2 processors...which are the ones that are surpassing the AMD offerings...the regular Core Duo were not in the same ballpark as the AMD X2 offerings...but the CD2 leapfrogs it.

If Apple gets these CD2 machines to market this month, it would be extremely impressive.  I did not see mention on the Apple site of any CD2 machines...but I may not be looking in the right place.  I do see the "rumor" sites indicate they are coming shortly...

Regardless, I would wait for a CD2 machine of either persuasion...
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Rokcet Scientist

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iMac - how good are they?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2006, 04:41:35 pm »

Quote
[...] I did not see mention on the Apple site of any CD2 machines... but I may not be looking in the right place.  I do see the "rumor" sites indicate they are coming shortly... [...]
On Apple's site you'll find the current line-up of offerings. 80% of that stuff is in the Apple Store as we speak, waiting for you to walk away with.
Apple never, ever pre-announces new models and/or specs!
Quote
Regardless, I would wait for a CD2 machine of either persuasion...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you wait for a Mac with CD2 you'll get 3 lightning fast machines for the price of one: an OSX Mac, a Windows box, and a Linux box! All-in-one!

I'm gettin' two of those ! Yummy!

 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 04:42:19 pm by Rokcet Scientist »
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dlashier

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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2006, 05:38:23 pm »

> if i want to use CS2 for windows

We need to hound Adobe to get out of the dark ages and switch to a cross-platform license like everyone else in the world. At the very least they should allow you to convert your license.

- DL
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jayz

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« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2006, 06:14:00 pm »

Quote
You will have to install either Parallels Desktop ($79) or Apple's Boot Camp (free). With Boot Camp you get a dual boot computer. With Paralles, you'll be able to run Windows software alongside Mac OS X. I have very little experience with Photoshop and these two pieces of software. You can read macWolrd's review of Parallels here.

As for new hardware, you should wait WWDC (August 7-11) and see what's announced during the conference.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


thanks for the information.  i'll wait to see what is going to be announced.  thought of one other question based on the advice to expand RAM with non-apple memory.   do you generally have to install the memory yourself??  Does this affect the warrenty with apple at all?
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francois

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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2006, 03:45:19 am »

Quote
thanks for the information.  i'll wait to see what is going to be announced.  thought of one other question based on the advice to expand RAM with non-apple memory.   do you generally have to install the memory yourself??  Does this affect the warrenty with apple at all?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No, it doesn't void your warranty provided you don't damage anything during installation. Apple has a page with the instructions [a href=\"http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303084]here[/url]. Installation is easy, just use common sense!
The only reason to buy Apple's outrageously expensive RAM is if you purchase AppleCare (extended warranty to 3 years) and want to include additional RAM in the plan. I don't think it's worth it.
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Francois

dlashier

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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2006, 05:13:47 pm »

New Woodcrest quad Mac Pro's have been available for a few days already.
http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjec...3&family=MacPro

- DL
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gryffyn

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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2006, 07:07:05 pm »

Consumer-grade computers (of any flavour) are commodity items these days, and when you couple that with the myth that Apple machines are "easier/more stable/etc" (which stopped being true some time ago, based on my comparisons with friends who have Macs), there really is not much difference.

Buy the best you can afford.  The critical software (Adobe, Nikon, etc.) for photographic work is virtually identical, so who cares?

My 2 cents worth.
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.....Andrzej
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