Fuji GFX 50S -real world experience

[hubell]

On the subject of the blackout, I can't understand why some cameras seem to have this.  On Mine the black out is no different than the X-T2, .5 of a second? Basically the time it takes to blink your eye.  I have the image preview off.  Using a fast card Lexar 1000x which is not the fastest.  For me what blackout there is is not a problem.  Not a studio shooter however.  But for landscape, attempting a pano with a long blackout, can be quite difficult. 

Edit:  the blackout is longer with the 120mm than the 32-64.  With the 120mm about 1 second or so it seems, which is slower than the 32-64. 

I also use the P1 backs, and the LCD to me is not an issue, in fact I have been impressed with it so far.  The screen is much faster on zooming than my P1 is (all my P1's over the years), and continues to be fast as you fill up the card. P1 tends to pixelate on zooms over time especially as the card starts to fill up.   The screen works like the iPhone screen for zooming, in that you can pinch it in to decrease zoom and pinch out for zoom.  However, if you have the camera setup for image review, 1.5 seconds, you can't use the LCD for zooming here, as you can with a P1 back.  This mean you constantly need to hit the play button to see the image.  A simple thing Fuji might fix with firmware in the future.

The grip will be better if the vertical grip is added, but that just adds more weight.  The Q button is in the way for me as I constantly hit it with my thumb, could have been better located.  The play button, also could have been put somewhere else, as you need to move the camera to see it unlike the X series.  I guess over time I will get used to the location.

To me the image playback zooms in over 100%, and this causes you to have to zoom back on each image to really get a true idea of focus.  Not sure if you can set the zoom to stop at a certain amount but I need to check on this.  But the amount of zoom you get when double tap the screen is too much and the image will look out of focus (at least to me).  Scrolling with a swipe is very quick also. 

When previewing an image, you tend to move your hand in front of the EVF, and thus the LCD will turn off, so when using the LCD, I will turn off the EVF as an option.

Personally love having an aperture ring on my lenses again. 

Paul Caldwell

My understanding is that the EVF blackout is attributable to the Sony 50MP sensor in the GFX. I tested the GFX and the EVF blackout is about .6 seconds with the zoom. It doesn't seem to matter whether the GFX is set to shoot just RAW or both RAW and JPEG. The X1D has an EVF blackout of about 1.1 seconds shooting just RAW. If the X1D is set to shoot both RAW and JPEG, the EVF is much longer. It's unclear whether the EVF blackout with the X1D is a firmware "issue" that can be improved over time. While the GFX is better on this score, for a photographer who is shooting in a way where he wants to be able to track the movement or gestures of the subject in real time, I would think both the GFX and the X1D are problematic.
I should underscore that EVF blackout is NOT the same thing as "shutter lag." I tested the X1D and the shutter lag was about 100 milliseconds compared to a Leica M9 at about 80 milliseconds.

[kers]

I had a complete kit of the Otus lenses (28, 55 & 85) and tried them all of the GFX. While the center resolution met expectations, the quality quickly degrades towards the edges. I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I invested in this kit was to shoot wide open, not stopped down to avoid vignetting.

Long story short, I sold my Otus kit as I don't plan to return to the 35mm format given the recent entries by Fuji and Hasselblad.

I understand that you wanted to use them wide open, but do you know how the edge quality was when stopped down? f2.8?
I can imagine these lenses will not be good wide open on a larger sensor than FF.  But the recent entries by Fuji and Hasselblad start @ f2.8
So a logical question is are they better than the Otus lenses ? @ F2.8
Then try to find a MF f1.4 28mm lens   ( or even a f2.8 28mm lens )
Would be interesting to hear your experience in this.

[tim_mcentee@hotmail.com]

I have a range of Mamiya 645 MF lenses. I would like to hear of anyone's experience using these lenses on the GFX with fotodioX adapter.

My primary use for this camera would be for landscapes focussed at infinity, but I would also take other types of photographs.

[Stephen Scharf]

I was not concerned with infinity, but only close-up. My problem was that I was not happy with the IQ I got from the lenses I use the most. It is a crap-shoot. Sometimes adapters and extensions work well; sometimes they don't. Perhaps our techsperts could explain why. I only know whether it is better than what I am used to or as good. If it is less good, then I can't use that lens/adapter combination on a camera. With the GFX, I was not satisfied with what I saw. But this is not to say you would not be. I am very fussy.

It could be Michael, that the adapter was not stiff enough to support the lens and ensure the optical axis was perfectly straight from the front of the lens to the sensor. Fuji did extensive development on the GF lens mount to ensure requisite rigidity as only a very, very minor deviation would impact image quality. Acc. to Fuji, the DOF of a light ray at f/2 is from the front to the back of the sensor is 10 microns, so they have to engineer tolerances to the micron level.

This is one of my principle concerns with 3rd party adapters; will be they provide the requisite rigidity and mounting stiffness that was desinge into the camera body or the Fuji-developed adapters?

Just food for thought.

[Michael Erlewine]

It could be Michael, that the adapter was not stiff enough to support the lens and ensure the optical axis was perfectly straight from the front of the lens to the sensor. Fuji did extensive development on the GF lens mount to ensure requisite rigidity as only a very, very minor deviation would impact image quality. Acc. to Fuji, the DOF of a light ray at f/2 is from the front to the back of the sensor is 10 microns, so they have to engineer tolerances to the micron level.

This is one of my principle concerns with 3rd party adapters; will be they provide the requisite rigidity and mounting stiffness that was desinge into the camera body or the Fuji-developed adapters?

Just food for thought.

Absolutely. I have a whole box of adapters that prove this. IMO, it was a combination of factors, like a perfect storm, which resulted in images less useful to me than those from my Nikon D810. I mentioned that often Fotodiox is first out with adapters, but that they vary in quality, quite a bit. I am sure that many of these concerns will be addressed by Fuji and better adapters. I could go on and on, but many GFX folks resent this and now that I don't have one, it may not be well received. And I have given my rough overview, with the proviso that I don't know all of what the problem is, just that I don't (at this point) come out ahead in the image department with this camera when using non-Fuji lenses. And I did not find the lenses made by Fuji for the GFX that interesting for my work. I did not have the zoom, but zooms (in my experience) are less corrected, in general. I feel the GFX is a good camera for a technical camera and I liked what I saw when I put it on the Novoflex BALPRO and (via a Nikon>GFX adapter) on the Cambo Actus.

The legendary Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar did OK on the adapter, if that is of interest.

[Stephen Scharf]

Absolutely. I have a whole box of adapters that prove this. IMO, it was a combination of factors, like a perfect storm, which resulted in images less useful to me than those from my Nikon D810. I mentioned that often Fotodiox is first out with adapters, but that they vary in quality, quite a bit. I am sure that many of these concerns will be addressed by Fuji and better adapters. I could go on and on, but many GFX folks resent this and now that I don't have one, it may not be well received. <SNIP>

And this is the fundamental issue with the folks on many photography forums. Folks get so caught up requiring validation of their choice of their favorite brands that they get upset when they read examples of how a camera may not meet another customer's requirements. What this is, is a fundamental lack of understanding that each customers needs, while they may be different from others, are all still valid.

Fortunately, the camera manufacturer market understands this, though, which is why we have literally an embarassment of riches in photographic tools these days.

Cheers.

[cyron123]

Hello Paul,
Thank you. Could you show us a 100% picture? Only a cutout is needfully. This would be cool.
Thank you.
cyron

 

I have the zoom and it is very good but can't compare to the 63mm as mine is back ordered.

Images compare well to those taken with other MF zooms like the ones from P1.

Paul Caldwell

[cyron123]

....Using a fast card Lexar 1000x which is not the fastest.  For me what blackout there is is not a problem.  Not a studio shooter however.  .....

I made a similar experience with my XT2. The "Blackout" in die finder is ways longer if I use an Sandisk Extreme (60MB/s) and a Lexar 2000x (300MB/s). There is a big "Blackout" with the slower card. With the lexar there is no Backout.

I think with 50 Mpix of the GFX this problem is much more noticeable.
Because i had only a small time with the GFX i had not enough time to watch on this point.

[Stephen Scharf]

I made a similar experience with my XT2. The "Blackout" in die finder is ways longer if I use an Sandisk Extreme (60MB/s) and a Lexar 2000x (300MB/s). There is a big "Blackout" with the slower card. With the lexar there is no Backout.

I think with 50 Mpix of the GFX this problem is much more noticeable.
Because i had only a small time with the GFX i had not enough time to watch on this point.

The blackout time is based on how fast the sensor can read out the data....Fuji made the blackout time as short as they possibly could. I noticed the blackout time when demoing the camera, but personally find that it does not pose any practical problem whatsoever with how I, or most photographers, would actually use the camera and/or the situations it would be used in. The blackout time is less time than it takes to wind the film and re-cock the shutter on a Hasselblad 501-series film camera, and many, many pros got their work done with with a Hassy for many, many years.

[Jim Kasson]

The blackout time is based on how fast the sensor can read out the data....Fuji made the blackout time as short as they possibly could. I noticed the blackout time when demoing the camera, but personally find that it does not pose any practical problem whatsoever with how I, or most photographers, would actually use the camera and/or the situations it would be used in. The blackout time is less time than it takes to wind the film and re-cock the shutter on a Hasselblad 501-series film camera, and many, many pros got their work done with with a Hassy for many, many years.

Not to mention that you couldn't see anything until the film was wound because of the non-instant-return mirror.

But we demand more of our cameras now. I thought the Hassy H2D-39 was OK in the studio for portraits until I started going back and forth between it and a D3. And the D5 is even faster to AF, and faster to advance. You have to turn your strobes way down to get them to recycle fast enough to keep up.

Jim

[Stephen Scharf]

Not to mention that you couldn't see anything until the film was wound because of the non-instant-return mirror.

But we demand more of our cameras now. I thought the Hassy H2D-39 was OK in the studio for portraits until I started going back and forth between it and a D3. And the D5 is even faster to AF, and faster to advance. You have to turn your strobes way down to get them to recycle fast enough to keep up.

Jim

Perhaps we demand more of our cameras now simply because of the specs they provide.  I used to deal with spec-chasing in a similar sense back when I rode sport bikes competitively. Guys would rush out to buy the latest, greatest 600cc sportbike based on specs determined by a lap around Willow Springs Raceway, only to get their doors blown off at the race track by an experienced motorcycle racer on a stock Kawasaki 250 Ninja. They didn't understand why they were getting their doors blown off riding a 110+ bhp bike by a guy riding a bike with 27 bhp.  Of course, what it came down to had virtually nothing to do with specs and everything to do with knowing how to ride.  Specs may sell cycle magazines and sport bikes, but they don't have a lot to do with practicality in the real world. Skill, OTOH, does matter in the real world.

My point was more that I don't think that for the uses that this camera will primarily be used for: portraiture, editorial/advertising/commerical, architectural and landscape, etc. that the blackout time poses any practical issues for the photographers it was intended for. The GFX isn't, and wasn't intended to be, a "decisive moment" camera, that's the purview of an X100F or a Leica M.  It wasn't designed to be a PJ camera like a Canon 1-D or Nikon D-series, either. But it will do things those other cameras can't. Moreover, I think it's good to slow down a little bit, be a bit more deliberative with one's photography. It certainly has helped mine.

[hogloff]

The blackout time is based on how fast the sensor can read out the data....Fuji made the blackout time as short as they possibly could. I noticed the blackout time when demoing the camera, but personally find that it does not pose any practical problem whatsoever with how I, or most photographers, would actually use the camera and/or the situations it would be used in. The blackout time is less time than it takes to wind the film and re-cock the shutter on a Hasselblad 501-series film camera, and many, many pros got their work done with with a Hassy for many, many years.

Right...lets stay in the 70's a little longer.

[douglevy]

There's no perfect camera, clearly. I shoot H5X and D5. I wanted to love the Fuji, but it just doesn't solve a problem for me, in fact, for each one it solves (high ISO, multiple AF points, lighter, price), it creates new ones (no c1 support, no leaf shutters, viewfinder blackout). "The blackout time is less than it takes to wind the film and re-cock the shutter..." OK, sure. But I at least then can see, I'm continuing the conversation with my subject, not wondering what I'm missing. Again, for me, much of what I shoot is action/reaction - action/response. If I can't see the action (even if I don't get a photo of it), I can't create a response.

-Doug

[Stephen Scharf]

There's no perfect camera, clearly. I shoot H5X and D5. I wanted to love the Fuji, but it just doesn't solve a problem for me, in fact, for each one it solves (high ISO, multiple AF points, lighter, price), it creates new ones (no c1 support, no leaf shutters, viewfinder blackout). "The blackout time is less than it takes to wind the film and re-cock the shutter..." OK, sure. But I at least then can see, I'm continuing the conversation with my subject, not wondering what I'm missing. Again, for me, much of what I shoot is action/reaction - action/response. If I can't see the action (even if I don't get a photo of it), I can't create a response.

-Doug

Well, the GFX is likely not a value proposition for you, then, given your requirements. No worries.  Horses for courses.

[Michael Erlewine]

Here is a very interesting article about the thickness of the sensor glass, which might affect mounting non-Fuji lenses on the GFX. I found it very worthwhile.

The Glass in the Path: Sensor Stacks and Adapted Lenses

https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/the-glass-in-the-path-sensor-stacks-and-adapted-lens

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Michael,

A very good article, but it doesn't discuss the position of the cover glass, only the thickness.

Best regards
Erik

Here is a very interesting article about the thickness of the sensor glass, which might affect mounting non-Fuji lenses on the GFX. I found it very worthwhile.

The Glass in the Path: Sensor Stacks and Adapted Lenses

https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/the-glass-in-the-path-sensor-stacks-and-adapted-lens

[Paul2660]

A few side by sides, showing a bit of the DR of the Fuji.  I am saw similar range when I used the IQ250 and 150, but the shadow details and color retention from the Fuji are very impressive.  ISO200, 120mm lens. 

Image is from a 5 part pano, (images taken vertically).  I prefer to shoot panos without the need for exposure bracketing as the bracketing just added to the process. 

Paul Caldwell

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Paul,

Happy to hear you are happy with your GFX.

Best regards
Erik

A few side by sides, showing a bit of the DR of the Fuji.  I am saw similar range when I used the IQ250 and 150, but the shadow details and color retention from the Fuji are very impressive.  ISO200, 120mm lens. 

Image is from a 5 part pano, (images taken vertically).  I prefer to shoot panos without the need for exposure bracketing as the bracketing just added to the process. 

Paul Caldwell

[kers]

Some interesting observation on bokeh difference: leaf shutter vs focal Plane shutter..

https://photographylife.com/fuji-gfx-50s-vs-hasselblad-x1d-50c/#more-141571

Even wide open the unsharp highlights are not round with a leaf shutter

[chrismuc]

Some interesting observation on bokeh difference: leaf shutter vs focal Plane shutter..

https://photographylife.com/fuji-gfx-50s-vs-hasselblad-x1d-50c/#more-141571

Even wide open the unsharp highlights are not round with a leaf shutter

Thx for the link, very interesting read.
The UI and the FM of the Hasselblad seam to be a nightmare.