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Author Topic: A new profile issue. Help please...  (Read 2591 times)

Onslow

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A new profile issue. Help please...
« on: February 28, 2017, 09:44:09 PM »

Hi All,
I generated a 2000 patch target on my i1 Pro2. I've been using my standard settings for this. The paper is Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, a matte paper. My Epson 3880 is around 3 yrs old. Fairly bullet proof and generally doesn't clog. Before printing the 2 x A3 targets, I ran the head cleaning utility twice and also inspected the output under a magnifying glass. No sign of blocked nozzles that I could see.
I have included captures of the settings for the creation of the profile.
My printer has a dust cover when not in use. I normally print with photo black not the matte black. This paper also feeds from the rear which I rarely use. Maybe dust was carried through the rear feed to block nozzels? I can provide the i1Pro2 measurement data etc as well...
Any thoughts on this?
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 09:54:09 PM »

You did do the head clean after swapping to matte ink? The 3880 needs an inkswap on a regular basis if only to ensure that it is not clogged.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 09:59:38 PM »

You must use matte black ink for that paper.  Also that profile looks whacked. There's an error somewhere
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 10:02:26 PM »

You did do the head clean after swapping to matte ink? The 3880 needs an inkswap on a regular basis if only to ensure that it is not clogged.
Hmm, I can't remember honestly. I shall redo it just on that basis...
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Onslow

Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 10:06:23 PM »

You must use matte black ink for that paper.  Also that profile looks whacked. There's an error somewhere
Mark, setting up the printer driver for the target, I selected Velvet Fine Art Paper. I believe that sets the Matte ink. Correct?
My thoughts at this stage are a blockage... Is that a reasonable assumption?
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 10:47:44 PM »

It may be ink but that profile looks like bad data from the scan.
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2017, 10:49:09 PM »

It's probably different in the Windows world but I use the i1Profiler print option rather than PS.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2017, 10:57:16 PM »

You need to print the target through the freely downloadable Adobe Color Print Utility. Or i1profer but better ACPU
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Doug Gray

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 12:27:29 AM »

It may be ink but that profile looks like bad data from the scan.

That's my take as well. I would randomize the patches as detecting the wrong scan lines works more effectively.

I have tools that can extract the spectral data if it's included in the profile. That's usually the case as it's the default. If you attach the profile to any small jpg image and post it here I'll take a look.
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Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 03:14:02 AM »

It may be ink but that profile looks like bad data from the scan.
I see no obvious banding flaws etc to my eye. I shall re-scann and see if it is duplicated. I'll firstly though give a cleaning run or two again.
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Onslow

Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2017, 03:14:39 AM »

It's probably different in the Windows world but I use the i1Profiler print option rather than PS.
I use the Adobe utility for this...
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Onslow

Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 03:16:47 AM »

You need to print the target through the freely downloadable Adobe Color Print Utility. Or i1profer but better ACPU
Mark, I used the ACPU utility from Adobe after the cleaning run to do the print. I'll firstly re-scan and if the problem persists, I'll clean again a couple of times and reprint. I haven't done much matte printing on the printer so I don't know if that's related...
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Onslow

Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 03:17:33 AM »

That's my take as well. I would randomize the patches as detecting the wrong scan lines works more effectively.

I have tools that can extract the spectral data if it's included in the profile. That's usually the case as it's the default. If you attach the profile to any small jpg image and post it here I'll take a look.
Thanks Doug, I've attached the profile in my original post...
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 03:51:06 AM »

I'd stop cleaning. That's often a way to exacerbate a problem. All that we know at this point is that you have a wonky profile. It could be caused by a number of issues. Unless you are using one of the standard evaluation images you could well be missing the issue caused by your profile. I would rescan your patches and see if the profile is the same. I would also run a nozzle clear test. that will tell you how your printer is behaving as well as a nozzle check. I'll try attaching it. I would also download the Hahnemuhle profile and run the test print through so that you can see how yours behaves but only after getting to the bottom of the issue.
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Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 04:31:56 AM »

I'd stop cleaning. That's often a way to exacerbate a problem. All that we know at this point is that you have a wonky profile. It could be caused by a number of issues. Unless you are using one of the standard evaluation images you could well be missing the issue caused by your profile. I would rescan your patches and see if the profile is the same. I would also run a nozzle clear test. that will tell you how your printer is behaving as well as a nozzle check. I'll try attaching it. I would also download the Hahnemuhle profile and run the test print through so that you can see how yours behaves but only after getting to the bottom of the issue.
Jeff,
Since the idea of a re-scan made sense to me, I gave that a try after coming home from work. In the original scan, there had been several beeps indicating errors but rescanning the line cleared that. Anyway, the result of the re-scan seems to have sorted the issue out.
I have attached a visualisation from the i1Pro2, a colorthinkPro3 compare between the damaged and the new one and a colorthinkpro3 compare between the Hahnemuhle and my new rescan profile.
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 05:33:20 AM »

That's looking a lot better. I find using CTPro to didplay the 2 profiles, one solid, the other wireframe gives an idea of the differences.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 09:24:57 AM »

That's looking a lot better. I find using CTPro to didplay the 2 profiles, one solid, the other wireframe gives an idea of the differences.
I agree - best to use CTP in 3D mode for examining the profiles. The revised profile is much better but I think could be still a bit improved. Best to test it with say the Outback printer test page and see how it performs.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Doug Gray

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 01:00:31 PM »

Jeff,
Since the idea of a re-scan made sense to me, I gave that a try after coming home from work. In the original scan, there had been several beeps indicating errors but rescanning the line cleared that. Anyway, the result of the re-scan seems to have sorted the issue out.
I have attached a visualisation from the i1Pro2, a colorthinkPro3 compare between the damaged and the new one and a colorthinkpro3 compare between the Hahnemuhle and my new rescan profile.

Yep. Bad scan for sure.

Here's a few of the patches where the wrong patch was read in:

Row 15, Col. 4, Page 1  RGB values (255,42,23) (somewhere around a bright, saturated red) came out Lab (24, -12, 2), a very dark cyan.

Row 15, Col. 16, Page 1 RGB values(255, 191, 115) (a desaturated light orange) came out Lab (48, -46, -25) a strong cyan.

In examining the row it is clear that the patches from those locations in row 16, instead of row 15,  were read in by error.


There is a fairly good way to avoid these sorts of mistakes. Scan each set of prints 3 times saving the intermediate measurements. Then run "Data Measurement Analysis" in I1 profiler using the first and second file. This will show statistics on how well the two sets of scans match for each RGB patch. Any misalignment between the two will stand out. Do this for the first and second set, first and third set, and the second and third set. If two of the three match each other closer than about 4 dE worst case and better than 1.0 on average just average  the ones that are closest to each other. Xrite has a description on how to average measurement files in their FAQs.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 01:49:51 PM by Doug Gray »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2017, 02:45:53 PM »

I agree with Doug on doing duplicate (or triplicate if you are really compulsive).  I use ArgyllCMS to do my profiles and I import the two scans into an Excel spreadsheet and do the comparisons to see if there are any really bad reads.  It also shows the deviation from what the patch actually should be.  You can expect some minor variations but if something is really off then you know what steps to take.
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Onslow

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Re: A new profile issue. Help please...
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2017, 04:05:55 PM »

I agree - best to use CTP in 3D mode for examining the profiles. The revised profile is much better but I think could be still a bit improved. Best to test it with say the Outback printer test page and see how it performs.
The two in 3d conform very closely now. I see the hahnemuhle has a slight edge in yellow, but, is that due to the particular characteristics of my printer? I tried to export as a quicktime movie but it wouldn't allow me. I don't have Quicktime installed. Perhaps that's the problem? I would find it useful to be able to create the movs.
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