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Author Topic: Fuji X-Trans III  (Read 2351 times)

jemsurvey

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Fuji X-Trans III
« on: February 24, 2017, 08:40:53 AM »

Good Morning All,

Right now I have an X-T2 on order (backorder) at B & H.  But I'm having second thoughts after reading several articles and forum postings about the grid artifacts with the X-Trans III sensor.  Not sure how much I should be concerned, if at all, but as I respect the opinions from this forums members I would appreciate any input into whether or not this issue has cropped up for Fuji users here and if it has been a problem.

I know Kevin was working on a review of the X-T2 and maybe he'll address this.

Thank you
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Paul2660

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 09:15:50 AM »

I have never had an issue with the grid pattern issue.  I am mainly a landscape shooter and the only time I saw this was on a review of the ON1 raw converter against a hard edge of the window.  But there are many other raw converters out there.

The X-T2 is overall a great camera and one I tend to carry everywhere due to the quality of the images. 

Now with the Iridient solution that takes the RAF to a dng, the lightroom issues with raw files are gone also.  Thanks again to Iridient.

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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razrblck

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 09:30:11 AM »

Lightroom can open the X-T2 files, sharpening seems to work like on any other camera and haven't seen a single artifact in the pictures.
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MBehrens

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 10:08:18 AM »

I saw that article yesterday too over on PetaPixel. I have the X-T1&2 and have never seen that pattern. I have been getting some CA issues with Iridient X-Transformer B2. I reviewed some of those images and they don't seem to be the grid issue explained in the article. BTW LRCC clears up the CA pretty well.

If you are new to X-Trans and are a LR user, you should look into the Iridient X-Transformer. LR does a pretty poor job on demosaicing the RAW file. IXT does much better. Windows only right now and still in beta, but a Mac version will be available.
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jemsurvey

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 10:10:03 AM »

Thanks I appreciate the feedback. The grid pattern according to what I've seen and read is showing up primarily in heavily backlit subjects, which is a common shooting tactic for some people. I've also seen samples of it occurring in night shots with bright street lamps. I'm not too concerned about the RAW processing as ID seems to have that worked out and even Lightroom has gotten better.  Was just hoping that the grid issue was not a very common issue.
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Alan Smallbone

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 10:23:24 AM »

I have never seen it, from the samples that I have seen it only occurs at specific angles while shooting into the sun.  I have been using the camera since it was available and have yet to see it myself.

Alan
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rdonson

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 11:16:30 AM »

I read the article.  I own and use an X-T1 and X-T2 and have logged tens of thousands of shots on each.  The article may be technically correct but I've never encountered the artifacts that are discussed.  You have to meet a certain lighting situation for those artifacts to appear.   

I'm a Lightroom CC and PS CC user and the only issues I've had is with Adobe demosaicing and sharpening of X-Trans III files.  Adobe conversion and sharpening can produce "wormy" portions of mages. 

I've added Iridient Developer to my workflow to address that and I'm pleased with the results and the extra step in my workflow.  Others have used other products.  Some people find the Adobe path just fine for them though. 
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Regards,
Ron

jemsurvey

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 02:51:28 PM »

Glad to hear its seemingly not a frequent occurrence. I appreciate the replies.
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hogloff

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 03:14:21 PM »

I don't have first hand experience with the X-trans sensors, but I've seen plenty of examples of smearing of fine details in images...especially in landscape images. Don't know if this is related, but there have been numerous threads on various forms out there showing this condition. Of course these discussions got heated and out of order...but usually where there is smoke, there is at least a spark or two.  ::)
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EddieX

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 03:26:44 PM »

You do have be careful when the light hits the sensor.  Here are two examples, one with the sun, the other with a strobe.  The sun one is much more pronounced then the strobe.  So it is something you need to look out for.  I've been paying closer attention when shooting into lights.



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Paul2660

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 03:37:45 PM »

The afore mentioned smearing, (I have called it out hundreds of times on various forums), is also called the plastic look or worm look.  Yes, it's real depending on the raw converter used, and IMO it's also present in the jpgs taken in camera especially if medium to hard sharpening is added. 

However same smearing, is gone with the following software (IMO),
Capture One, Vr 9 and up, Silkypix Studio Pro Vr 7 and up, ON1 raw (latest version), Iridient Developer (all versions), LR (only in the latest versions).

Note LR can still bring out the plastic look at times, but it's much better than it used to be to my eyes, so Adobe seems to have definitely improved on the X-T2 and X-Pro 2 conversions.

You can also see the same detail smearing in the older X-T1, X-Pro 2, net any of the Fuji's that were 16MP.

As to the flare into the sun, (really not too surprised by this), every camera I have used from Nikon to Phase One has some form of flare (usually destructive)
when shot directly into the sun or when at an angle.  The magenta color is very common. 

There were early reports of a checker board or grid like look to the magenta flare when the X-T2 first shipped, but I have not seen it.  And I shoot a lot into the sun. 

I would recommend lensrentals.com try it and see what you think for yourself. 

Paul Caldwell
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David Sutton

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 03:44:09 PM »

I've shot tens of thousand images on the X-E2, X-T1 and X-T2.
Both Iridient X-Transformer and Photo Ninja render totally smear-free detail in foliage. Having said that, Lightroom is fine for the majority of images as long as you are not ham-fisted on the sharpening and noise reduction.
The grid artefacts with the X-Trans III are real, but I've never seen them, and I shoot into the light regularly.
Reading the article on this at mirrorlessons.com the author says the artefacts are readily seen in the viewfinder and easily removed by moving as little as a few millimetres.
David
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budjames

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2017, 06:38:25 AM »

I have both the X-T2 and X-Pro2. After shooting thousands of images with both bodies, I have not see the problem described but the original poster. However, I am using Capture One Pro 10 exclusively for my RAW processing and DAM needs. Perhaps it's a software issue?

Regards,
Bud

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jemsurvey

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2017, 10:10:21 AM »

Pretty sure from what I've read its a hardware / sensor issue and under the right (or wrong) conditions it can affect any camera using the X-trans III sensor, and to a lessor degree the X-trans II sensor.  I'm just putting out what I've read about it, I think to some degree its speculation as to what the exact cause may be.
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rdonson

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2017, 04:27:10 PM »

Yes, the article claims the problem is caused by using the X-Trans CFA vs having a Bayer CFA sensor.  The claim is also that the problem exists regardless of demosaicing algorithm used. 

Since I haven't experienced the problem yet and don't expect to it's pretty academic to me. 
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Regards,
Ron

Harald L

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2017, 06:07:45 PM »

It a real  life problem as soon as you're heading towards the sun. Would I ditch my X-Pro2 because of this issue? Definetely not. Nothing on this world is perfect. The most annoying thing on that is Fuji's poor communication on that glitch.
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calindustries

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 03:59:24 PM »

I just found this thread as I have a new to me XT2 and was playing with some backlit shot and noticed this pattern pretty strong. I've seen it before back with my old 5DMKII but only a few times. I'd have to say every backlit shot with my 23 1.4 displayed annoying grid in the flare. This is my walk about camera so I'm not gonna freak out but I'd be interested in what processing techniques may reduce this issue as I enjoy flared images. Here are a couple of examples of some family snaps that show the grid.


« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 04:04:06 PM by calindustries »
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rdonson

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2017, 10:10:23 AM »

Craig, thanks for sharing.  I'm having a tough time though picking out the offending grid.  Would you be so kind at the circle the area with the grid pattern?  That would help me a lot.

Thanks! and regards,
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Regards,
Ron

jemsurvey

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2017, 10:53:21 AM »

Its very noticeable in the girls hair, especially the b&w version.  May need to zoom in some though.
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razrblck

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Re: Fuji X-Trans III
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2017, 07:59:41 AM »

I can see maze artifacts even on images with flare from a D200.

When I shoot against the sun I try ti keep the flare minimal, which fits with my way of shooting. Unfortunately, if you like to make flare so prominent in your pictures you will have to deal with issues. Fortunately the artifacts are small enough to be invisible on web sized images, they probably don't even show up in prints.

Alternatively you can introduce luminance noise/grain to the affected parts. This wouldn't work in every situation but can help in extreme cases.
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