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Author Topic: Advice on Epson P800  (Read 2064 times)

IanBarber

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Advice on Epson P800
« on: February 23, 2017, 03:17:32 PM »

I am currently using an Epson R3880 and from what I have been told and read, the K inks by default are warm which I believe to be something to do with the pigments.


When using the ABW driver especially on paper like Epson (Archival) Enhanced Matte, I am seeing this warmth especially in the lighter grays.


I was wondering if the Epson P800 is the same


Ian

unesco

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Re: Advice on Epson P800
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 03:28:52 AM »

P800 is the same (I own both 3880 and P800), you can have a look at some of my posts and charts I have posted about ABW tint and ink itself for P800.

I treat that warmth of the inks as an advantage. This is natural tint of carbon-made inks (similar in general terms to Piezography Carbon, but of course different in details). To make it neutral, ABW or any other driver adds some cyan and magenta during printing process. Canon and HP have more neutral inks but they (similar to Piezography Neutral) have colorants mixed directly into the ink.

How do you use ABW, with what settings to see warmth - in neutral mode? Neutral mode in general makes prints perceptually rather cool than warm and tint, especially in lights, strongly depends on paper white point.

I really like ABW Warm mode, it gives nice archival look, not too warm and pleasant to eye.

Have you ever tried QTR? when I did it the 1st time with my 3880 (did properly) I was shocked, what this printer can achieve in B&W with standard inks!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 08:02:51 AM by unesco »
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Paul Roark

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Re: Advice on Epson P800
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 12:05:12 PM »

In terms of relative warmth of the matte black inks, I did a draw-down test (Mayer rod pulling drops of ink over paper) of 3 that I have on hand, including the new Epson UC HD MK from the P600.  Included in the draw-down were dilutions of the MK to 30% MK, 70% generic dilution base.  Diluting MK is the route to the cheapest (and most archival, but matte paper only) B&W inksets.  So, the relative warmth of the dilute MK is probably more important than the relative warmth of the MK itself.

The Jpeg of the draw-down is here: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/MKs-P600-Eb-Eco-3-2017.jpg

I'd call it pretty much a draw, so to speak.  The MIS (www.inksupply.com) "Eboni" MK (STS Inks wj1082 wholesale) used to be by far the most neutral, but version 1.1. of the ink made it almost indistinguishable from many others.  The EcoTank 774 is probably the least expensive MK available that I'd trust.  In a past test I thought it was a bit warmer than Eboni, but it's close.

My interest in the relative warmth of carbons is for my B&W dedicated inkset formulas (open source).  I use these and want them to be easily made from competing sources so that the B&W "darkroom worker" type of person (myself included) has the best and least expensive materials.  So, while it is a bit OT, let me also add another piece of that puzzle.

All of the carbons need a light blue toner to neutralize the carbon warmth if a neutral B&W print is wanted.  I think the best is made with Canon Cyan an Blue, diluted with 75% generic base.  See page 3 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/3880-Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf .  This toner formula appears to be universal for carbon -- matte and glossy.  My glossy carbon variable tone used the same toner.  MIS sells its own version of this premixed at https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm (bottom of the page)  (MIS and I have no connection. I do not receive any royalties; all my formulas are open source. I do allow MIS to use my name in their URL as long as what is there are materials I've used and tested.  That makes it simpler for those who follow my work to find the materials.)

FWIW,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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Monoman

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Re: Advice on Epson P800
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 02:59:16 PM »

Paul, May I suggest that when you are making draw-downs for critical comparison that you amend your technique a little and provide more background information?

For critical visual comparison one is able to place the ink pools almost touching each other close to but not touching the Meyer Bar. As you draw the bar the inks will flow to touch intimately but without mixing, an advantage of wire-wound bars. Any colour, density or gloss difference will be clearly visible on examples such as in your paper and better evidence of your detailed work without the visual colour distortion of the intervening white.

For the record of your technique you ought also to state which bar you are using and what backing is behind your substrate.

I am impressed by the effort which you are putting into your wor4k and the details which you report.

Jerry
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