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Author Topic: Printing on Canvas without wrapping  (Read 3132 times)

donbga

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Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« on: February 19, 2017, 09:37:59 pm »

Hello Everyone,

I curious if anyone is printing on canvas without plans to wrap it on a frame. Instead mounting it flat.

If mounting flat what techniques are used?

Oh yeah, what canvas brands and types are folks happy with? I'm printing on an Epson 3800 and 3880.

Thanks,

Don Bryant

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Jim Metzger

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 10:47:03 am »

I have used Epson canvas (various iterations) and Breathing Color Lyve and Crystalline. I print on an Epson 7600 which is very old (knock on wood). The reason I really like the Breathing Color canvas is they will make you a custom profile for your individual printer. The current Epson profiles do not work well with older machines and even though Breathing Color has canned profiles for the older machines it is more than likely that your machine will have gone far enough out of factory spec for the profiles to not work well.

Unlike most canvas the Crystalline canvas does not require a top coat but I use their Timeless sprayed on with a very inexpensive HVLP gravity feed gun run off a 20 gallon compressor.

I typically provide canvas "loose" prints to clients who will mount it themselves or I use the Breathing Color EasyWrappe Stretchers.

I believe others on this forum use products like "Miracle Muck" to mount canvas onto almost any substrate.
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framah

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 10:57:32 am »

If I have a canvas print in to my store and they don't want it stretched, i just dry mount it to foam core and then laminate it and it is done.
As long as your inks can withstand the heat of a heat mount press, then it is good to go.

The good side of it is that you aren't steteching the canvas and having the possibility of the ink receptor layer cracking at the edges from the tension of pulling it tight as well as  the piece not loosening up and looking floppy and needing even more tightening, increasing the cracking, etc.
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mearussi

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 07:05:31 am »

For small sizes I mount on clear acrylic as the sides can't easily be seen, but for larger sizes acrylic becomes very heavy so I stretch it. I prefer the smoothest canvas I can get so I use Canson's Museum ProCanvas, which is almost as smooth as paper, but Breathing Color's Lyve is also good. 
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PeterAit

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 08:23:02 am »

I did some preliminary experiments mounting canvas on gator board with miracle muck with promising results, but never followed thru on it.

Breahting Color Lyve is the best of the few canvasses I have tried in terms of dynamic range and IQ. Unfortunately it is also the most expensive.

If you are avoiding wrapping due to the difficulty of doing it the traditional way, with pliers and a stapler, I highly recommend the EZ Wrap system, also by Breathing Color.
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mearussi

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 10:57:25 am »

I did some preliminary experiments mounting canvas on gator board with miracle muck with promising results, but never followed thru on it.

Breahting Color Lyve is the best of the few canvasses I have tried in terms of dynamic range and IQ. Unfortunately it is also the most expensive.

If you are avoiding wrapping due to the difficulty of doing it the traditional way, with pliers and a stapler, I highly recommend the EZ Wrap system, also by Breathing Color.
Actually, right now Lyve canvas in the 17" and 24" rolls are being heavily discounted due to overstock. I just bought two 24" rolls for about 1/2 the regular price when I used the 20% off discount code of Ron20.
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Garnick

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 11:29:39 am »

I realize my response will likely not be of much use to you, since it is indeed a matter of opinion on my part.  However, here goes.  In my opinion there are only two reasons to print an image on canvas, which are as follows.  Simply put, a canvas print should have the "look" of canvas, as well as the tactile properties of canvas, including the ability to actually feel the stretched material as it gives to the touch and then returns to its previous stretched tension.  As a matter of fact, when I tell a customer that the print hanging on my wall is on canvas I also ask them to touch it, feel the give and take nature of the fabric, as well as the canvas texture itself.  Indeed, feel and hear the effect of a gentle tap on the surface, almost bass drum in nature.  To me that is the essence of, and the reason for printing on canvas.  In other words, a canvas print should exhibit a sort of "organic" presence, which can be enjoyed by at least two of the senses, sight and feel.  Now of course I am not, and would never suggest that one should encourage all viewers to exercise the second of those two senses(feel) with a canvas on exhibit in ones home, except in extraordinary circumstances. 

For the reasons mentioned above I cannot seem to put any sort of value on a canvas that has been mounted on a solid substrate, although I do of course understand that in some cases it would be the customers wish to do so, and we all realize that the customer is always right.  As far as printing on an ultra smooth canvas is concerned, why not simply print on a good quality fine art paper?  Less work and no stretching involved.  As for the easy "Peel and Stick" variety of canvas stretching I would offer a bit of advice.  Indeed it is a very easy, fast and less expensive way of finishing the job.  However, as with many applications, easy, fast and inexpensive is not always the best route.  When I first researched this method I immediately had my doubts about its permanence.  I simply could not believe that a properly stretched canvas could be maintained for any length of time by any sort of adhesive, except perhaps "Gorilla Glue".  For many years I have been printing enlargements for a local Photo-Finisher, as a subcontracted addition to my own base of steady customers.  The work for the Photo-finisher also consisted of canvas printing, which they would then stretch using the Peel & Stick method.  In many cases, within the last few years a number of those canvases have been returned for re-stretching, since the adhesive had let go and the canvas had slacked to the point where it could no longer be displayed, something I had also warned them about previously.  Now I do believe that if one were to leave enough extra canvas to wrap around the back edge of the bars it could of course be stapled, as in a traditionally stretched canvas.  In this way I suppose the Peel & Stick method could perhaps find a place in the stretching procedure, except for the possibility of the a conflict between the two methods of adhering the canvas to the bars.  If it started to slack with time, one would then need to undo both the staples and the adhesive in order to re-stretch.  Not a preferred method I'm sure.   

Again, this is strictly a point of view on my part, but I hope it might add some fuel for thought to the conversation.

Gary         

       
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 09:29:39 am by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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Landscapes

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 01:10:06 pm »

The nice thing about mounting canvas is that all of a sudden, you can get a much bigger print.  For us guys with a 24" printer, instead of doing a 20x30 stretched canvas, since you need 2 inches all around for stretching, you can do a 24x36 canvas if you mount it and put a frame around it.  Given the price of moulding, this certainly isn't going to be the cheaper option, and producing a stretched canvas is usually a cheaper way of producing big prints, but if you do find a cheapish moulding, the presentation can be a bit nicer for just a little more, and like I say, you can produce a much bigger final product.
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Garnick

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 02:02:41 pm »

The nice thing about mounting canvas is that all of a sudden, you can get a much bigger print.  For us guys with a 24" printer, instead of doing a 20x30 stretched canvas, since you need 2 inches all around for stretching, you can do a 24x36 canvas if you mount it and put a frame around it.  Given the price of moulding, this certainly isn't going to be the cheaper option, and producing a stretched canvas is usually a cheaper way of producing big prints, but if you do find a cheapish moulding, the presentation can be a bit nicer for just a little more, and like I say, you can produce a much bigger final product.

I agree totally with your reasoning, and as a matter of fact I will likely be using that same rational in the near future, since I will soon be downsizing from a 9900 to a P7000.  I'm moving my business to my home location and the 9900 would have been a very tight fit, so I will now be using a 24" printer, as I did for many years before purchasing the 9900 in early 2010.  That said, the larger canvases with gallery wraps were very impressive, but from now on they will be smaller.  Of course even with a framed canvas you are only losing approximately 1.5" all round for a .75" bar plus raw canvas for stapling.  Yes, a mounted and framed canvas will provide a larger image area, but it will still be my last resort if necessary.  So, I guess I am both agreeing and disagreeing at once, but not a knew concept for me though.

Gary

     
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Gary N.
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donbga

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 06:24:40 pm »

Again, this is strictly a point of view on my part, but I hope it might add some fuel for thought to the conversation.       


I'm not sure why you have commented since the original question was about unstretch flat mounted canvas.

I think a good alternative is to frame a stretched canvas giving the appearance  of a flat canvas mount.

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Garnick

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 07:38:04 pm »

I'm not sure why you have commented since the original question was about unstretch flat mounted canvas.

I think a good alternative is to frame a stretched canvas giving the appearance  of a flat canvas mount.

Did you actually read my post?
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Gary N.
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donbga

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 08:09:18 pm »

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hogloff

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 09:17:53 pm »

I'm not sure why you have commented since the original question was about unstretch flat mounted canvas.

I think a good alternative is to frame a stretched canvas giving the appearance  of a flat canvas mount.

If you are hiding the fact the canvas is stretched...why stretch it and not directly mount it to a substrate. One issue with stretched canvas is that it can be prone to sagging in certain environments...especially humid environments. I rented a house in Kauai which had stretched canvas photos on the walls and they looked terrible with the slight sag in them. Maybe a bad stretch job...but I've heard others complain about canvas sagging over time.
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langier

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2017, 10:29:25 pm »

I do a lot of canvas that's not stretched. Pretty much all on Fredrix 777 then coating it with ClearStar liquid laminate rolled on with a foam roller. Most of what I print if not stretched is mounted on heat-activated foam board and it's ready to frame, or not. Coating for me is the key since it adds a layer of protection from scuffs, UV, moisture, damage, etc. to the finished print and also enriches the color and depth.
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donbga

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Re: Printing on Canvas without wrapping
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 08:59:09 am »

If you are hiding the fact the canvas is stretched...why stretch it and not directly mount it to a substrate.

Good Point.
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