Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S

[Michael Erlewine]

Well, after an almost 9-month wait, not to mention my excursion with the GFX system (that for my particular photography did not work out), thanks to recent blogs on the Diglloyd.com “Medium Format” section and posts on the Hasselblad X1D, I am ready to endure (with patience I hope) the problems the X1D seems to have, and have taken the plunge.

I got the last X1D from a recent batch at Adorama that sold out in 24 hours, and also the 90mm lens. I have the 30mm lens on order and will probably get the macro lens when it appears.

As they say in the movies, “I’ve got my head right, boss.” I will give the X1D a try and remind myself that this is not for the close-up, stacking work that I usually do, but for a new adventure that might even include people (heaven forbid) and certainly landscapes. So, where are we discussing the X1D these days, aside from this thread?   

[Christopher]

Don't really know. As currently the GFX hype has taken over.

I looked at both two weeks ago in detail and the X1D has for me just way to many shortcomings. After shooting for it two days I knew I never would be happy with the current camera. (Even though I still love the form factor)

So I decided to get the GFX and I it's really fun to use. The files can't really get close to my Phase system, but are great and the camera, while being a little ugly handles very well. What I really love are the third party lens options. Some great stuff.

In regards to your last question. Just open a new topic. I think there should be enough people around having a X1D who want to talk about it.


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[Michael Erlewine]

Don't really know. As currently the GFX hype has taken over.

I looked at both two weeks ago in detail and the X1D has for me just way to many shortcomings. After shooting for it two days I knew I never would be happy with the current camera. (Even though I still love the form factor)

So I decided to get the GFX and I it's really fun to use. The files can't really get close to my Phase system, but are great and the camera, while being a little ugly handles very well. What I really love are the third party lens options. Some great stuff.

In regards to your last question. Just open a new topic. I think there should be enough people around having a X1D who want to talk about it.


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I probably will start another thread, but I will wait until I actually have some experience with the X1D. I am pretty schooled at this point with its weaknesses as it pertains for the kind of photography I do, so I will do my best not to complain, but just consider the quality of the image the X1D system can provide. I may end up rejecting it, but I have to see for myself.

With the GFX lenses that are available, I could not appreciate their quality, and I tried. And in my experience, with a lot of really fine Nikon-F format lenses, adapting them to the GFX showed me nothing better than my D810 does, and not even as good... of course, IMO. So its, "horses for courses." Onward!

[Christopher]

Certainly true with some lenses, but the GFX plus Leica R 180 APO easily equals anything I could put in front of my old D810.

Most remarkable is how amazing these old lens designs actually are. Shame on some more modern ones.


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[Quentin]

I do some LED lit studio food photography with the Fuji GFX, and also natural light botanical photography and those are areas where the 120mm image stabilised macro is brilliant.

[Paul2660]

I do some LED lit studio food photography with the Fuji GFX, and also natural light botanical photography and those are areas where the 120mm image stabilised macro is brilliant.

Nice Quentin,

As for the lenses, I can definitely appreciate them, as they appear to be as sharp as any of the P1 Schneider glass I have used.  The 120mm is an amazing optic as it can provide extremely sharp images and can be hand held due to the OIS.  Manually focusing is easy with the EVF due to the high resolution provided and the peaking.   I do wish that Fuji had given both the zoom and 120mm and 63mm manual MF clutches, as the GFX carries forward the same issues of focus by wire that the x series cameras have.  But determining Focus shift is possible as you can for sure hit the DOF preview button in M mode and then change the aperture on the lens, something that others appear not to be aware of.  If you try it in S mode the DOF will not stay stopped down thus you can't check for shift.  Focus shift, if there is any is nominal on the lenses I have.

Paul Caldwell

[hubell]

My experience with using MF in magnified live view with the GFX is not good, particularly in low light. While the specs of the EVF for the GFX are much better on paper than the EVF in the X1D, in practice I find that manually focusing in live view is much more effective with the X1D. It is considerably easier to hit the exact point where the lens is in focus. This was unexpected.

[Michael Erlewine]

My experience with using MF in magnified live view with the GFX is not good, particularly in low light. While the specs of the EVF for the GFX are much better on paper than the EVF in the X1D, in practice I find that manually focusing in live view is much more effective with the X1D. It is considerably easier to hit the exact point where the lens is in focus. This was unexpected.

DITTO!

[Quentin]

I confess I am not the biggest fan of EVF in general.  The EVF on the Fuji GFX is OK, but not great.  The tilt adapter and tiltable screen are both great, however.  They have thought of what studio shooters want.  Well done Fuji.

And as Paul says, the 120mm macro is an amazing optic.                                 

[Paul2660]

Be it not perfect. Magnified EVF or Liveview in the LCD beats optical if you have tired old eyes in any light for me.

Paul Caldwell

[mdelrossi]

Seriously looking at the GFX.
Regarding the EVF, for studio work, Can you attach a video monitor to the camera and get a larger image to focus on?

@Quentin Nice work!

[chrismuc]

The reason why I chose the GFX over the X1D - besides the facts that the GFX wins handsdown regarding the provided functions and the option to use third party lenses - was simply that I trust Fuji in their software capabilities and their service while in Hasselblad's I don't. Designing the GFX, Fuji could build on their profound experience in developing and producing consumer mirrorless X cameras (from medium to high end/ semi-professional). Fuji is able to manufacture them in high quantities with an absence of crucial firmware bugs from day one of market release and they are renowned for their policy of constant firmware updates (with the intention both removing bugs and adding functions). Hasselblad on the other hand produces since a decade the H cameras which have the reputation to be soso reliable and hardly ever to work completely stable. Also their service is reported to be expensive and not very responsive. The dealer in Munich where I bought the GFX told me that is was quite impossible to use the X1D camera and to recommend clients to buy the X1D when it was released because it was so buggy. Such thing just won't happen with a Fuji product.

(My PhaseOne IQ180 that I bought in 2012 also only workes bugfree (no system cracks, connection losses, touchscreen unresponsiveness) since the latest firmware update in 2014 or 2015. Leica S and SL seems the same story with firmware issues if one follows their forum. My impression is that these companies invest too little qualified manpower in software development and testing before releasing products. Btw. in contrary the Alpa FPS worked flawlessly since the first firmware and the same after the last update.)

[Quentin]

and here is a botanical example shot handheld that the GFX and 120mm stabilised macro is good for:



Thanks for the kind comments...as for the use of a monitor, I shoot tethered into Lightroom with Fuji tethered Plugin Pro, not sure othwerwise, but probably...

[Paul2660]

For my use, it's a bit tragic Fuji and P1 could not have come to an agreement on support, as C1 IMO has the best tethering solution since you can use session mode.

As I understand it with Fuji you either use:

1. X-acquire, which just puts the images in a folder on the PC, you then could import into LR as needed
2. Tether Shooting Plug-in PRO, which puts the image directly into your LR catalog. 

For my use, I don't want all the image in the catalog as I only use tethering for fine checking of focus, shadows etc. which in C1 is so easy.  I don't use C1 in catalog mode as I still prefer sessions.

Paul Caldwell

[hcubell]

Designing the GFX, Fuji could build on their profound experience in developing and producing consumer mirrorless X cameras (from medium to high end/ semi-professional).

Therein lies a big part of what I really don't like about the GFX so far. It feels just like a consumer level mirrorless camera in which Fuji dropped a larger sensor. It is bloated with "feature" overload that, for me, just gets in the way of my experience shooting the camera. It's essentially designed to be an XT-2 on steroids, which explains why those who have used Fuji X series cameras think the menu system and ergonomics of the GFX are great.
Everybody is different in terms of what their needs are and how they prioritize the pluses and minuses of a camera system. Some want a gazillion options and the ability to adapt every lens ever made. Others want as few "features" as possible (just the ones they actually need) and a dedicated set of superb lenses that match the form factor of the camera body. Nice that we have a choice.

[Michael Erlewine]

Nice that we have a choice.

That's funny! Yes, we have a choice, but not one that suits all. It's pot luck that I will get what I want.  I like the GFX better on paper than in reality. After the GFX, it looks (to me) like the X1D will suit my work because I don't care about AF, and there are problems with it, big time, according to what I read. I have to bite the bullet and be patient with the cumbersome functioning of some parts of the X1D, and focus on what it can do for me, like: highly refined highlights (see Diglloyd's most recent blog, and not-very-contrast colors, etc. I am looking for refinement, not saturation..... this week, at any rate.

[Quentin]

It's a little unfair to criticise Fuji for building in too many features.  I use those I need and ignore those I don't.  I use the aperture ring - yes, I can actually set the aperture on the lens!  Now THAT is practical simplicity I really appreciate.

The reality is this.  The X1D and the GFX were designed to address two entirely different groups of users, but that reality has been lost because both cameras use the same sensor.  Same sensor does not equal same camera.

The X1D is a modern take on the Mamiya 7.  Minimalist, fabulous quality, simple to use.  I loved my Mamiya 7.  That's what Hasselblad had to make otherwise the would be competing with their H6D line, and they have done very well.

Fuji had no such constraints.  This was their opportunity to enter the medium format space.  The GFX is a medium format work tool, also fab quality, but geared to a user base who want / will use accessories like the angle finder in studios, on location, etc.  Don't compare them, because you are comparing apples and oranges.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Quentin,

Well said, you write like a lawyer…

Having 'classic controls is nice', especially if shooting with gloves like in winter.

Features are good, unless they get in the way of shooting or give up functionality.

Best regards
Erik

It's a little unfair to criticise Fuji for building in too many features.  I use those I need and ignore those I don't.  I use the aperture ring - yes, I can actually set the aperture on the lens!  Now THAT is practical simplicity I really appreciate.

The reality is this.  The X1D and the GFX were designed to address two entirely different groups of users, but that reality has been lost because both cameras use the same sensor.  Same sensor does not equal same camera.

The X1D is a modern take on the Mamiya 7.  Minimalist, fabulous quality, simple to use.  I loved my Mamiya 7.  That's what Hasselblad had to make otherwise the would be competing with their H6D line, and the have done very well.

Fuji had no such constraints.  This was their opportunity to enter the medium format space.  The GFX is a medium format work tool, also fab quality, but geared to a user base who want / will use accessories like the angle finder in studios, on location, etc.  Don't compare them, because you are comparing apples and oranges.

[hcubell]

It's a little unfair to criticise Fuji for building in too many features.  I use those I need and ignore those I don't.  I use the aperture ring - yes, I can actually set the aperture on the lens!  Now THAT is practical simplicity I really appreciate.

The reality is this.  The X1D and the GFX were designed to address two entirely different groups of users, but that reality has been lost because both cameras use the same sensor.  Same sensor does not equal same camera.

The X1D is a modern take on the Mamiya 7.  Minimalist, fabulous quality, simple to use.  I loved my Mamiya 7.  That's what Hasselblad had to make otherwise the would be competing with their H6D line, and they have done very well.

Fuji had no such constraints.  This was their opportunity to enter the medium format space.  The GFX is a medium format work tool, also fab quality, but geared to a user base who want / will use accessories like the angle finder in studios, on location, etc.  Don't compare them, because you are comparing apples and oranges.

Quentin, I agree that the comparison of the GFX and the X1D makes little sense on one level in that the GFX was designed to be a very versatile camera system with lots of capabilities, while  the X1D is like a savant. It doesn't do a lot of things, but what it does do, it does superbly. However, my sense is  that an awful lot of the potential buyers of the GFX will never take advantage of its versatility and they will use it to do the same limited set of things that the X1D does so well. For them, the comparison becomes appropriate.

[Michael Erlewine]

Quentin, I agree that the comparison of the GFX and the X1D makes little sense on one level in that the GFX was designed to be a very versatile camera system with lots of capabilities, while  the X1D is like a savant. It doesn't do a lot of things, but what it does do, it does superbly. However, my sense is  that an awful lot of the potential buyers of the GFX will never take advantage of its versatility and they will use it to do the same limited set of things that the X1D does so well. For them, the comparison becomes appropriate.

My sentiments almost exactly. I am not using the X1D to do what my D810 or technical cameras do, but as a freeing agent to try and shoot other things than close-ups. The GFX, for me, was an extension of the D810, but not as elegant (IMO) as the Nikon. Then again, I may not like the X1D. We will see. It arrives tomorrow. I certainly love the haptics of the X1D.