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Author Topic: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S  (Read 16039 times)

andreart

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Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« on: February 19, 2017, 01:33:21 PM »

Hi. What is your opinion ? what system to buy ? + & - ?



Here is some points that right now is under big ??? mark
1. Flash synhro ?
2. Used lenses ?
3. New lenses in future ?
4. Witch system will be more opened with lense adaptors to other lense brands  ? lense mount and sensor distance ?
5. Witch sensor is better ?
6. Using with studio lights ? Hyper Sync TTL.
...

Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S vs Pentax 645D vs Pentax 645Z

Please make discussion and tell your opinion ?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 07:08:35 AM by andreart »
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voidshatter

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2017, 02:00:55 PM »

Flash synhro ?

Of course the leaf shutter from the X1D has an advantage.

Witch system will be more opened with lense adaptors to other lense brands  ? lense mount and sensor distance ?

Of course the focal plane shutter and electronic shutter from the GFX offer more options (though it's not known whether X1D will add electronic shutter with a firmware update).

Witch sensor is better ?

The same, though Fuji is infamous for highly inflated ISO.
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elundqvist_photo

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2017, 05:16:28 PM »

1) X1D (1/2000th s sync speed)
2) Neither, both are new and there are no used lenses?
3) Unknown
4) The GFX already has adapters for several brands whereas the X1D only supports Hasselblad H lenses
5) Same
6) Neither really. No HS/HSS support for GFX and X1D does not need it.

Hi. What is your opinion ? what system to buy ? + & - ?

Here is some points that right now is under big ??? mark
1. Flash synhro ?
2. Used lenses ?
3. New lenses in future ?
4. Witch system will be more opened with lense adaptors to other lense brands  ? lense mount and sensor distance ?
5. Witch sensor is better ?
6. Using with studio lights ? Hyper Sync TTL.
...

Please make discussion and tell your opinion ?
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vampire

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2017, 05:25:11 PM »

I think that a lot of people are trying to compare these first two medium format mirrorless camera as apples to apples, which I understand, but in reality they aren't designed to be that way. Hasselblad took the sensor and tried to build the smallest camera around that, including the lenses, without sacrificing any quality. Fuji created a camera system that was more compact than any previous medium format camera(excluding the X1D) and stayed true to the design and heritage of their current line of cameras. But while making it more compact, they didn't try to make it as small as possible. The beauty is that we have two completely different intentioned systems and two great cameras to choose from at price points we haven't seen before.
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BobShaw

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2017, 08:32:29 PM »

Hi. What is your opinion ? what system to buy ? + & - ?
My opinion is that nobody in their right mind would shell out $10K plus accessories for something they had not had the chance to hold, use and play with unless it cured some road block problem they are having. Lighter and smaller are nice but they are not usually show stoppers.

I already have a Hasselblad so I would love to have an X1D. i bought a Hasselblad because it had the features I wanted, being leaf shutter and big sensor.
Would I pay 10K plus for a Fuji? Probably not. I could pay $8000 for a Canon, but chose to pay $3000 for a 5Ds.

My thoughts are that when things are thoroughly tested in the market place and the bugs removed is the best time to buy. I don't even upgrade operating systems until they are out for 6 months and for a Mac at least they are free. Exciting to see new things emerging, but why rush to throw away money.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2017, 11:20:34 PM »

Hi,

I would say comparing with an 8K Canon is not a proper comparison. The most expensive DSLR is the D1X II at around 6000$US (at B&H) and that is a sports shooter's kind of camera, built for speed and high ISO work. High end image quality oriented full frame is more in 3000-4000$US range.

But, it could be said that both the X1D and the GFX are priced at where top end DSLRs used to be and some Leica models still are.

The X1D is delivering, the Fuji GFX is still not available and very few raw images have been posted, I have seen and downloaded a few, but it seems they are gone.

My impression is that the cameras are different. The Fuji is just a large sensor version of their APS-C cameras. The X1D is designed compact.

Fuji has long experience with EVF and CDAF (Contrast Detecting Auto Focus) technology, the X1D is a first try for Hasselblad.

I would wait a while, wait for raw images and raw support.

Actually, I wouldn't buy either right now. They would not solve any problem I have.

Best regards
Erik



My opinion is that nobody in their right mind would shell out $10K plus accessories for something they had not had the chance to hold, use and play with unless it cured some road block problem they are having. Lighter and smaller are nice but they are not usually show stoppers.

I already have a Hasselblad so I would love to have an X1D. i bought a Hasselblad because it had the features I wanted, being leaf shutter and big sensor.
Would I pay 10K plus for a Fuji? Probably not. I could pay $8000 for a Canon, but chose to pay $3000 for a 5Ds.

My thoughts are that when things are thoroughly tested in the market place and the bugs removed is the best time to buy. I don't even upgrade operating systems until they are out for 6 months and for a Mac at least they are free. Exciting to see new things emerging, but why rush to throw away money.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 04:34:31 PM by ErikKaffehr »
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landscapephoto

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 01:17:48 PM »

I think that a lot of people are trying to compare these first two medium format mirrorless camera as apples to apples, which I understand, but in reality they aren't designed to be that way. Hasselblad took the sensor and tried to build the smallest camera around that, including the lenses, without sacrificing any quality. Fuji created a camera system that was more compact than any previous medium format camera(excluding the X1D) and stayed true to the design and heritage of their current line of cameras. But while making it more compact, they didn't try to make it as small as possible. The beauty is that we have two completely different intentioned systems and two great cameras to choose from at price points we haven't seen before.

Indeed. I saw the two cameras at photokina and the Fuji looks much bigger than the Hasselblad, also because the lenses are bigger. I don't think that they have been designed for the same market at all.
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landscapephoto

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 01:19:56 PM »

My opinion is that nobody in their right mind would shell out $10K plus accessories for something they had not had the chance to hold, use and play with unless it cured some road block problem they are having. Lighter and smaller are nice but they are not usually show stoppers.

I already have a Hasselblad so I would love to have an X1D. i bought a Hasselblad because it had the features I wanted, being leaf shutter and big sensor.
Would I pay 10K plus for a Fuji? Probably not. I could pay $8000 for a Canon, but chose to pay $3000 for a 5Ds.

My thoughts are that when things are thoroughly tested in the market place and the bugs removed is the best time to buy. I don't even upgrade operating systems until they are out for 6 months and for a Mac at least they are free. Exciting to see new things emerging, but why rush to throw away money.

Exactly. I find the X1D quite tempting, but there is little it can do over what my ancient H4D can and which I need.
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spassig

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 07:02:40 AM »

I would wait a while, wait for raw images and raw support.

Actually, I wouldn't buy either right now. They would not solve any problem I have.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Erik

a) Doesn't X1D generate RAWs?
b) Doesn't GFX generate RAWs?
c) Doesn't Phocus support X1D pictures?
d) Doesn't Photoshop or other application support GFX pictures?
e) Can You explain Your problems?

Jochen
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RDMAX

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 10:13:54 AM »

Exactly. I find the X1D quite tempting, but there is little it can do over what my ancient H4D can and which I need.

V system user here, even more ancient :P

Though strongly considering X1D because it's much lighter
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 10:41:01 AM »

Hi Jochen,

My bad, to hasty writing...

What I mean is that I need to have a rawconverter that can handly the raws from the GFX. RawTherapee can do that, but it doesn't have no colour profile for the GFX, yet. Another converter is AccuRaw. The samples I have seen so far either turned out pink or just non informative.

So, I think we need to wait until there is a raw converter handlig the GFX files before making a proper evaluation of the raw data.

The other aspect is that I am very interested in the GFX and the X1D. But, I don't have any real need they would solve. I am shooting with A Sony A7rII and that gives me both DR and the megapixels I need. The A7rII also allows tilts and shifts with many of my lenses. So I have a bystander interest in 44x34 mm MFD.

I also have a Hasselblad 555/ELD and a P45+ back, so would I want to shoot MFD I can also use that one.

Still, I feel the GFX and the X1D are interesting developments.

Best regards
Erik


Hi Erik

a) Doesn't X1D generate RAWs?
b) Doesn't GFX generate RAWs?
c) Doesn't Phocus support X1D pictures?
d) Doesn't Photoshop or other application support GFX pictures?
e) Can You explain Your problems?

Jochen

Paul2660

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 11:29:56 AM »

Hi. What is your opinion ? what system to buy ? + & - ?

Here is some points that right now is under big ??? mark
1. Flash synhro ?
2. Used lenses ?
3. New lenses in future ?
4. Witch system will be more opened with lense adaptors to other lense brands  ? lense mount and sensor distance ?
5. Witch sensor is better ?
6. Using with studio lights ? Hyper Sync TTL.


Please make discussion and tell your opinion ?
A few thoughts:

If you need flash synchro, past 1/125, the X1D would be a pick for sure due to the leaf shutter.  However the Fuji GFX and EX-500 flash should allow flash work beyond 1/125, just as the EX-500 allows this on the X-T2.  I have used it up to 1/1000.  I realize this is a pulsing type of flash, but for my work it works fine.  I am not a studio shooter.

New lenses, I am sure both companies have new lenses coming.  X1D has 3 and Fuji has 3, with 3 more in the pipeline.  I hope to see Fuji get to a more telephoto zoom or prime in the future.  With the 23mm and 45mm, I would be fine for landscape work, along with the 120mm.

Sensors are the same, Fuji claims to have made a few more unique changes to the sensor but under the covers it's the same sensor Phase One has used in the IQ250, 150 and 350.  Very good sensor, excellent DR. I don't expect the Fuji to deliver anything less. 

I don't think anyone will make an adapter for the X1D as it has no shutter and no ES, thus only Hasselblad leaf lenses can work.  Hasselblad has already made an adapter to allow their older non X1D specific glass to work on the X1D

The Fuji has a full ES and Focal shutter thus it's up to Fuji and third parties, but most lenses 35mm and MF should work.  The only issue will be aperture control on all of them. 

Fuji currently has no used glass as this is a totally new camera platform, Hasselblad allows use of their older used glass.

Raw conversion will be here soon for the Fuji and I am not to worried about what the files will look like, it's a standard Bayer pattern on the sensor not X-Trans so LR will do fine. 

Paul Caldwell
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2017, 11:54:46 AM »

The Cambo Actus-GFX was announced today and supposedly ready to ship. I ordered one from Capture Integration. It uses the same rail, bellows, and lens boards as the standard Actus, but has (of course) the GFX on the rear standard. I have not figured out if the rear standard is now more easily replaceable than the standard Actus (with its tiny screws). This allows me to use my enlarger and LF lenses with the GFX. For me, a big deal. Also the Cambo Actus is beautifully made. Cambo also makes the Smart Flex L-Bracket.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 12:03:02 PM by Michael Erlewine »
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razrblck

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2017, 12:45:53 PM »

The two cameras are very different, they just happen to be both mirrorless with the same sensor.

The GFX is designed to be a workhorse camera, capable of adapting to many tasks. The X1D is a leisure/travel camera for people that want the Hasselblad colors or already shoot Hasselblad for work.

If I had the money I'd take both, because they are just stellar products for different applications.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2017, 02:57:00 PM »

Hi,

I see your point, but I see it differently. I would any time take the one that is best fits to my needs. Having two kits is just a nightmare. Twice the weight when you fly. Which one to take on a trip. Playing around with two systems…

Take one system, learn to use it and optimise it four your needs. For me that is the winning concept!

Best regards
Erik

The two cameras are very different, they just happen to be both mirrorless with the same sensor.

The GFX is designed to be a workhorse camera, capable of adapting to many tasks. The X1D is a leisure/travel camera for people that want the Hasselblad colors or already shoot Hasselblad for work.

If I had the money I'd take both, because they are just stellar products for different applications.

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2017, 03:32:38 PM »

Absolutely, take only one for your trips! Both cameras would be quite excessive!

I would probably go for a Sony RX100 mk.V and a Fuji X100T on a trip, but that is just my preference. :)
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2017, 03:45:52 PM »

Hi,

This is about what I take on a trip.

  • RRS Versa 3 series tripod
  • Arca D4 head
  • Sony A7rII
  • Hcam Master TS# for tilt and shift work
  • Metabones IVT adapter for Canon lens
  • Canon 26-35/4 L
  • Canon 24-105/4 L
  • Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII
  • Sony 100/2.8G Macro
  • Sony 70-400/4-5.6G
  • Contax/Zeiss 35-135/3.3-4.5 Sonnar for tilt work and backup lens
  • Contax/Zeiss 35-135/3.3-4.5 Sonnar for tilt work and backup lens
  • Sony A7II for backup
  • Viltrox FE to EF mount adapter as backup
  • Sigma 10/3.5 Fisheye

That list covers my needs/wants pretty well… T&S, telephoto, ultra wide and motion are important for what I feel I want to achieve. Do I achieve it? Not necessarily!

Best regards
Erik

Absolutely, take only one for your trips! Both cameras would be quite excessive!

I would probably go for a Sony RX100 mk.V and a Fuji X100T on a trip, but that is just my preference. :)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 07:59:15 PM »

Hi Bob,

Canon D1XII sells B&H for 5999 $US.

But I think it is an improper comparison, you would probably not go for the 50 MP EOS 5Ds with 5 FPS if you needed 16 FPS.

Both systems are very new, your suggestion to wait until things shake down a bit, first bugs are fixed and more test reports can be seen is a very good one.

The basic differentiators are:

  • Leaf shutter on the X1D and focal plane on the GFX. That is important for outdoor usage of studio flash.
  • GFX having focal plane allows it to be used by many different lenses while X1D is limited to Hasselblad X and HC lenses.
  • X1D is small while the GFX is a bit larger.

Both systems use the same sensor, so image quality parameters are the same. Hasselblad talks about 16 bit colour but the files actually contain 14 bits of data.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59203633
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59002429

Phase One and Hasselblad has long used '16-bits' in their sales arguments. The problem is that 16-bits is an alt-fact, otherwise known as lie. Repeating a lie doesn't make it more true…

Although both systems use the same Sony sensor it is possible but not probable that they may use different CFA (Colour Filter Array) designs. The Sony sensors has many modes, it has built in noise reduction for instance. Hasselblad may use the sensor differently from Fuji. But in any case, what comes out of that sensor is 14 bit wide binary data.

A great differentiator may be colour profiles. Hasselblad is known for great colour from Phocus and some X1D owners say that LR delivers near identical colours to Phocus. That really indicates that Hasselblad worked with Adobe on supplying a good DCP (DNG Colour Profile). What Fuji does needs to be seen.

Best regards
Erik

My opinion is that nobody in their right mind would shell out $10K plus accessories for something they had not had the chance to hold, use and play with unless it cured some road block problem they are having. Lighter and smaller are nice but they are not usually show stoppers.

I already have a Hasselblad so I would love to have an X1D. i bought a Hasselblad because it had the features I wanted, being leaf shutter and big sensor.
Would I pay 10K plus for a Fuji? Probably not. I could pay $8000 for a Canon, but chose to pay $3000 for a 5Ds.

My thoughts are that when things are thoroughly tested in the market place and the bugs removed is the best time to buy. I don't even upgrade operating systems until they are out for 6 months and for a Mac at least they are free. Exciting to see new things emerging, but why rush to throw away money.

andreart

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2017, 01:28:27 PM »

Hasselblad X1D

Cons:

Plastic parts are fragile for scratches.
Lenses are slow to get good subject separation
Battery capacity is low.
You can not have bokeh circles with the lenses. They look like honeycomb. Maybe because of the leaf shutter.
45mm and 90mm both have focus shift.Especially at short distances.
Files are flat and not lifelike.Dimenson is not there at all.
Lcd has a low resolution.
Evf is not better than sony a7x series.
Slow start-up time like computer.
After too many shuts body becomes hot.
Strange shutter noise.Ahhrrr 😬😬😬

Pros:

Leica M like body. Build quality and style are exceptional
Super easy menu. It is Apple like.
Very good ergonomics on buttons and grip.
Great AF accuracy. Great working AF light for low light works
Super easy to use.
Nearly shake free because of leaf shutter.
Superb use of Nikon ttl flashes and profoto b1 up to 1/2000 sec
Colors are real as you see with your own eyes when you use Phocus software.

Fujifilm GFX

Cons:

Ugly style and ergonomics. Play and delete buttons are so bad placed.
To much buttons and crowded menus.
Focus is fast but not accurate especially in low light.
Heavy after Leica bıt for dslr users it is ok. Especially lenses.
Because of bad ergonomics and the huge lenses(compared to Leica) it is impossible to use small bags for street and travel photography.

Pros:

Forget about the cons and run to buy it😃
Punchy and lifelike files even no raw for now.63mm and 120mm has that special leica pop 😳😳
Super subject separation.
Great shutter sound
Buttons are what you want them to be [Admin note: seems like it has many buttons, maybe too many, but at least Fujifilm placed them mostly smartly, except for the delete and play button. Anyway, we are waiting for clarification about this on the GFX group, and I will update the article as soon as Ahmed elaborated more clearly]
Detail is more refined and corrected than Hasselblad (hassy sometimes seem like to much Photoshop sharpened)

http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-gfx-vs-hasselblad-x1d-user-review-forget-cons-run-buy-gfx-fuji-guys-gfx-top-features-video/
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 08:02:57 AM by andreart »
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Hasselblad X1D vs Fujifilm GFX 50S
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2017, 02:20:08 PM »

I feel this presentation by Fuji satisfies most of the gearhead in me, confirms why I should have ordered this camera, and provided the IQ is good, why it will make my work so much easier than it now is with the Nikon D810. I am sure most of you have seen this, but if you have not, it is very, very helpful.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paVGe4_yJuw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmHHGq8cdSA&index=2&list=PLlWO-2S-UogrSLbG_QIKuuZ1ucrpMkIeu
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 03:42:09 PM by Michael Erlewine »
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