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Author Topic: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand  (Read 5042 times)

Tim Lookingbill

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Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« on: February 16, 2017, 08:40:32 PM »

Just to preface that I am not a religious person and I don't want this discussion to drift toward that.

But something happened at 5PM central standard time at my central Texas apartment that played out involving me and some neighbor kids being at the right place, at the right time that helped police collect evidence on a perp. Unbelievable how it all unfolded.

I'm a dyed in the wool loner for sure. I don't get involved with strangers or even neighbors in my apartment complex. I'm too involved with my digital hobby world so I live mostly as a recluse and I like it.

At 5PM today I went out to check my mailbox. I usually go after watching the CBS Evening News at 6PM. I saw two police squad cars about 15ft. from the mailbox terminal escorting a man in cuffs. I went back to my apt. and forgot about it. At around 6PM I saw about six boys around 8 years old riding bikes in the complex. Never saw them before. They knocked on my door and I didn't answer it. I never open my door to someone I wasn't expecting. Just something I learned dealing with people and especially kids I don't know.

My mind began putting two & two together thinking the arrested man was the guardian of those kids so I went out on my porch to see what they wanted where one of them said they found a wallet by the manager's office. I suggested they put the wallet in the manager's office rent check drop slot. They went on their way to do that.

Then my mind told me I'ld better check on them to see if the wallet fit and so I left my apt and came up to them in front of the manager's office where one of the boys confirmed it fit. But another boy said they found a Samsung cellphone on the ground near the office. At this point a police squad car shows up...(another tenant must've called). The boys and I told the officer that they found a wallet and that I had told them to put it in the manager's office which was locked. The officer asked if they found a cellphone and they replied they did and gave it to the officer. The officer commended the boys for performing their civic duty and gave them all high fives.

I then knew that the wallet and phone were throw downs from the perp they'ld arrested at 5PM and most likely would have evidence as to why he was arrested. All was right with the world.

Then I started thinking about the details of how this event unfolded. I thought if I hadn't gone to my mailbox at 5PM to see the man get taken away in handcuffs and if I'ld disregarded those kids knocking on my door and just stayed in my apartment where I would not have told them to put the wallet in the manager's office drop slot, the police would not have any evidence. I found out the boys didn't live at the apartment but lived in separate houses in the subdivision surrounding the apt. complex.

It makes me think maybe I'm suppose to be where I'm at and that everyone in some way has some purpose or value in why they are where they're at in life regardless if it appears like it's just existing.

I guess it's good sometimes to get involved and take action. And sometimes I get a sense I should just stay out of it. This time I called it right.

Anyone experience decision making that introduced a chain of events that made a difference that you only realize after the fact?
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 12:29:48 AM »

An event like that can have a profound effect on one.

Thanks for sharing it, Tim.
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 05:11:43 AM »

With all due respect, nothing here suggests a 'guiding hand'.

As a species, we tend to find meaning & patterns, even where none exists. There are evolutionary advantages to such tendencies are clear - if an organism can discern patterns, it can make predictions and potentially avoid dangerous situations, or successfully exploit food opportunities. That could have profound advantages for a population.

Your after-the-fact sense-making is of a kind with our tendency to see faces in clouds, the baby Jesus in a piece of toast, or Mohammad in a pomegranate. We impose patterns on the world, and we assume those patterns are real, even to the point of avoiding confounding data that would render such patterns non-existent.

Basically, shit happens, and sometimes we kid ourselves that shit happens for some reason beyond mere chance or a logical line of cause & effect. Nice story though.

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2017, 07:14:35 AM »

An event like that can have a profound effect on one.

Thanks for sharing it, Tim.

There have been other similar events in the past but not with the clarity of hindsight in how it went down in this particular situation. It got me thinking about parallel universes, string theory and our concept of time and our place in the universe. I thought to myself why hadn't previous incidences present this level of clarity and mindfulness.

This event got me thinking about different "spiritual" languages that aren't necessarily verbal when I was reminded of an encounter several days prior arguing with a 70 year old man and his wife who were having trouble due to health issues taking a walk through our local Panther Canyon park which is quite rocky but has a walking trail. The husband came up to me and asked how far the trail goes into the canyon where I replied it was about a 20 minute walk. They said they walked about 50 feet and got tired which was why they were leaving.

Then the husband rattled me with the oddest comeback when he asked "Where would you like to die if you died right now?". Thinking it was a philosophical comment on the beauty of nature I said, "Right here in Panther Canyon. It's beautiful". Then he chuckled and said, "No, where do you want to go after you die?"

OH SH*T! Another attempt at my being evangelized. I told him I'm quite familiar with the gospel but it's been nothing but a negative experience dealing with people on that level, something I'ld like to avoid. He said those prior people didn't do it right which he didn't realize as most do when they say this that they're admitting faith's divisive nature when it should bring people together which pissed me off even more because he wouldn't let it go.

I then noticed I became more focused on his belief system instead of the fact that this guy was most likely on his death bed if he couldn't walk 50 feet without getting tired. I felt sort of heartless after my arguing with him on the subject. He then grabbed my hand to shake it and pulled me in like Trump with that newly appointed judge and grabbed my elbow with his other hand saying "Bless you" which I took as an act of dominance because he wanted to save face from my arguing with him over his faith in front of his wife which pissed me off even more.

The two events to me are like an internal spiritual language only humans can engage in. Animals don't do this. Why did these events happen when most of my days are quite uneventful. I pondered if you stay in one place long enough which for me so far has been 5 years, you're most likely to notice patterns but this was ridiculously too happenstance. Like something is trying to teach me or remind me something about life and our place in the universe.

Maybe it's about establishing priorities? Or maybe it's just the effects of changing weather patterns on our moods. I know these two events renews my appreciation of life and existence no matter how dull and pointless it may seem at times. Life is amazing!
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David Eckels

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2017, 09:01:25 AM »

Maybe the old man couldn't move his feet very well, which is why he pulled you towards him. Maybe "bless you" was the only language he had to say thank you for engaging him. How many time do we just pass on by?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 09:42:22 AM »

... I'm a dyed in the wool loner...

Far too long, it seems  ;)

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 10:05:25 AM »

Quote
Maybe the old man couldn't move his feet very well, which is why he pulled you towards him. Maybe "bless you" was the only language he had to say thank you for engaging him. How many time do we just pass on by?

Not that it matters that much but he didn't actually pull me towards him. He moved in uncomfortably closer into my personal space to shake my hand and then grab my elbow. I'm not a touchy, feely person with one off meet ups with strangers in the park. I didn't give him permission to move in closer.

He's assuming he gets that right to invade my space which I see as I have all my life with people (especially salespersons and evangelist preachers) who appear authoritative and fatherly as a passive way of asserting a dominant position. They move closer up to you and you either start stepping back or you let them tower over you, but they know you're not going to make a big deal over them getting in your face because it's an established social gesture we all grew up with as kids. The comedy show Tosh.O makes jokes about the same social maneuver by having dudes move in close with their crotch in the other stranger's face while sitting on a public bench. They wait to see how much the dude will put up with it.

I'm 57 years old and I don't particularly like a stranger I've only talked with several minutes who's 15 years older than me getting in my space while they assert their religious beliefs on me. He could tell I was getting upset by my tone, but he didn't care.

The fact is I'm never going to see this man again for the rest of my life and I know this because in the ten years I've lived in my small town I've run into 6 other strangers spread across in various public and business places having similarly engaging conversations (some lasting an hour, some just minutes) only not involving religion and I've never seen or heard from them ever again.

But you do raise an interesting observation about how many times we pass strangers we meet in public places without even a nod or hello especially with almost everyone nowadays with their face looking down staring at a cellphone. This tells you people aren't really interested in you. They prefer their private space. And I have to respect that. A discussion of religion is not on their agenda if one is thinking of invading or breaking the ice of that private space.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:19:20 AM by Tim Lookingbill »
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 10:16:31 AM »

Far too long, it seems  ;)

It does reduce stress and anxiety by not having to deal with people who don't have an original thing to say and are blind to another's personal space. They offer nothing that's memorable. I can't remember what all those six strangers I've had talks with said to me. Talk is cheap. Doing really speaks more loudly and meaningfully.

You would not believe how my life has been SO MUCH LESS stressful just staying away from people. It took 5 years of living alone though to get to that zone to realize this. I had adapted to the stress and wasn't aware of it all those previous years.
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RSL

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 10:33:07 AM »

With all due respect, nothing here suggests a 'guiding hand'.

As a species, we tend to find meaning & patterns, even where none exists. There are evolutionary advantages to such tendencies are clear - if an organism can discern patterns, it can make predictions and potentially avoid dangerous situations, or successfully exploit food opportunities. That could have profound advantages for a population.

Your after-the-fact sense-making is of a kind with our tendency to see faces in clouds, the baby Jesus in a piece of toast, or Mohammad in a pomegranate. We impose patterns on the world, and we assume those patterns are real, even to the point of avoiding confounding data that would render such patterns non-existent.

Basically, shit happens, and sometimes we kid ourselves that shit happens for some reason beyond mere chance or a logical line of cause & effect. Nice story though.

Bill, I'm not going to launch into a speech about this, but I flew military airplanes for ten years and I can think of several times when by all rights I should have died, yet somehow, through no help from my own intelligence, I didn't. I'm sorry you've never had the kind of experience in your life that tells you your fate is in hands other than your own.

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 11:17:02 AM »


Your after-the-fact sense-making is of a kind with our tendency to see faces in clouds, the baby Jesus in a piece of toast, or Mohammad in a pomegranate. We impose patterns on the world, and we assume those patterns are real, even to the point of avoiding confounding data that would render such patterns non-existent.


I'm just playing the part of an odds maker analyst who's investigating a losing streak (or dry period) only by changing what signifies losing and winning. The white ball of a roulette wheel has no conscience or will to make decisions on whether to land on odd or even numbers or black or red. We don't question the white ball's motives as if we're projecting human traits on it when we win, we do this only when we lose. Desire leads us down a path that may involve a series of decisions we don't know the outcome, but yet its path looks no different than the behavior of that roulette wheel ball.

It's amazing considering all the variables far greater than the roulette wheel ball faces how one slight split second decision in our lives can unravel a whole series of unseen good intentions into the future.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 10:18:08 AM by Tim Lookingbill »
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 11:44:14 AM »

A cool story, but one that defines a coincidence.   

But still a cool story and I am glad it may have helped the police.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2017, 10:00:19 AM »

ADDENDUM: I left out of my OP a bit of detail about the six boys and that cellphone mainly for brevity since the story was getting long and I wanted to maintain a positive slant. But what I'm about to reveal may cast dispersion on the integrity of even the most innocent that we assume of children especially within a group think dynamic. Kinda' like the ol' Bowery Boys flicks.

As a reminder the boys didn't know I was going to show up at the manager's office to check up on whether the wallet made it through the drop slot and they certainly didn't know a cop would show up as well. When they saw me approach their group in front of the manager's office I noticed this sort of excited nervousness I've come to recognize in kids and myself when I was one where they repeated each other over and over hopping and moving around when they see an adult show up. Most of us as adults don't question this behavior in kids. It's just something they do.

The biggest kid piped up they found a Samsung cellphone on the ground but now couldn't find it but showed me its square flat shaped battery. The rest of the six agreed some with quiet nods and others with excited "Yes's". Then one of them diverted my attention to show me where they found the wallet after which I asked about the exact location of the cellphone. That's where each of them excitedly pointed their fingers in various directions as if they're looking around searching for a spot. Each was not very specific, but at that moment we see the police officer show up after which the boy who showed me the Samsung battery says to the officer he found the cellphone. After the high fives I decided not to mention this bit of observation to the officer.

But in hindsight I surmised if the police didn't show up, they were going to keep that cellphone since they gave up the wallet. Even kids within a group dynamic know how to keep their mouth shut.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2017, 10:12:10 AM »

Just want to thank everyone for making this discussion interesting with your meaningful input. I enjoyed it.
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N80

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2017, 09:52:25 PM »

With all due respect, nothing here suggests a 'guiding hand'.

As a species, we tend to find meaning & patterns, even where none exists. There are evolutionary advantages to such tendencies are clear - if an organism can discern patterns, it can make predictions and potentially avoid dangerous situations, or successfully exploit food opportunities. That could have profound advantages for a population.

Your after-the-fact sense-making is of a kind with our tendency to see faces in clouds, the baby Jesus in a piece of toast, or Mohammad in a pomegranate. We impose patterns on the world, and we assume those patterns are real, even to the point of avoiding confounding data that would render such patterns non-existent.

Basically, shit happens, and sometimes we kid ourselves that shit happens for some reason beyond mere chance or a logical line of cause & effect. Nice story though.

Such smugness. The OP didn't ask anyone to condescendingly explain how he misinterpreted the events because of his evolutionary conditioning, his unwillingness to consider confounding data (which was not forthcoming by the way) or to be told that "shit happens".

Presumably he understands the nature of coincidence and that sometimes "shit happens". Presumably he understands that your "after-the-fact-sense-making" is pretty much the basis for most of our capacity to reason.

And yet, he still got the sense that the situation did not unfold by coincidence. And for some reason you felt the need to rush in and explain away that feeling with pop-psychology. Why? Was if offensive? Was it harmful for the OP to wonder why he felt that way?

And what is your confounding evidence? Is it "shit happens"?

The truth is this: pseudo science and pop psychology cannot disprove supernatural causation. Neither can real science. So when someone gets a sense of something transcendental why assault them with evolutionary theory about how we misunderstand series of events?

The truth is that you cannot prove or disprove supernatural causation here and so invoking your theories is kind of pointless unless it is just to make yourself seem smarter than someone else. I suspect there is a pop-psychology explanation for why some folks have need to belittle others.

 





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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 11:30:13 PM »

George, though I appreciate your thoughtful support of my "guiding hand" vs coincidence observation in my OP, I don't take Bill's statement as smug and condescending, so there's no need to be so abrasive in your response to him.

I believe in science and logic. Science reveals greater odds according to the evidence when one considers the size and age of the Universe and a realization of the seemingly impossible likelihood it all started with the Big Bang and would lead to life we now have on this big rock called Earth.

I was even thinking about the question of how evolution knew to give mammals and humans ears since sound is a specific section of the wave spectrum that didn't seem to be needed. I can understand us evolving eyes for sight due to the spectrum of light. But sound? What were our primordial ancestors not hearing when they didn't have ears and then had to evolve to get them? All the other evolution of senses makes sense, but sound is a mystery on how and why it was developed.
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Farmer

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 11:35:18 PM »

Interestingly, Professor Brian Cox, just the other day, suggested that the LHC proves that ghosts don't exist.  Google it, it's an interesting idea.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2017, 01:02:32 AM »

Interestingly, Professor Brian Cox, just the other day, suggested that the LHC proves that ghosts don't exist.  Google it, it's an interesting idea.

Thanks for the heads up. I read this article which appeared at the top of the search... http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2017/02/16/has_the_large_hadron_collider_disproved_the_existence_of_ghosts.html

What's even more unbelievable and fantastic is what's being said in the comment section.

The thing that puzzles me about TV shows on paranormal investigation is that in the dramatization of the event they clearly show them recording the ghost or entity with video cameras, but when they switch to the real person (not actor) telling the story, they don't play the original real video mentioned in the dramatization.

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Rob C

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2017, 04:23:30 AM »

The problem with this sort of thread is simple: the sense of 'something else' is a sense, and is not really something that can be articulated clearly, because it is visceral and not intellectual.

Futhermore, some experiences that one has had are never going to be put out there in the public gaze. That is not necessarilly due to their being easily knocked down, but to the fact that it is personal, and that more than self is sometimes involved.

But from the point of view of what's not personal, is simply obvious, I'd say that the more science discovers the more unlkely it is that we shall even come to realise what the bottom line has been. In fact, it makes Vasily Zvyozdochkin look a mere beginner, simply a pioneer.

Rob C

GrahamBy

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2017, 05:59:46 AM »

The biggest question I have, if there is someone or something looking out for us: why isn't he looking out for the poor bastards in Alep, or the Central African Republic, or the folk in Srebrenica or... ?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Just experienced an event that suggests there's a guiding hand
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2017, 06:48:08 AM »

... why isn't he looking out for the poor bastards in Alep, or the Central African Republic, or the folk in Srebrenica or... ?

Being busy talking to some of us?  ;)
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