Digital Back For My Contax or GFX

[Hegemonious]

I would like to get some thoughts on your thoughts on should I save for a 40mp digi back for my Contax 645 with some solid lenses or go with a gxf50? I use the contax for natural light portraits or fashion typically on location. The GFX seems like a cool piece of new tech but not sure if I want to introduce a system. I like my RZ in studio and my 5dMK3 and 1dx for speed or when I don't feel like thinking too much.

Your thoughts is greatly appreciated!   

[BobShaw]

There are posts like this all over this forum so rather than giving my standard answer I'll give an analogy. (:-)

You have a horse. You enjoy riding the horse and the feeling of freedom it gives.
You see someone go past in a car.
You ask if you can bolt an engine and wheels to the horse?
That pretty much sums it up.

Use the Contax and RZ for what they were built for if you enjoy that. You can better results with film anyway.

I once pondered how to add a back to my Mamiya AFD. It would have cost many thousands to put a back on a mediocre camera.
I also had an RZ67. A thousand for an adaptor plus thousands for the back. The camera and lenses are good but the widest lens is 50mm and the crop factor would have made it quite long.
I bought an H1/P21 kit for less and then went H2/P21 then H3DII for even less money. At least they are a digital camera from this decade and they take current lenses and have support. Plus they shoot awesome images. (Still have film in the fridge though)

[Bo_Dez]

I still think the Contax 645 is probably one of the best ever systems. It's such a shame it was dropped and I've lost hope someone else is going to pick it up and redevelop it. For me it's the lenses. Fast Zeiss is like gold.

I have thought the same as you many times, if you was to buy new you are better off. You can buy any of the Phase IQ1 or Leaf Credo backs. That includes the IQ150. But you are locked out from the full frame CMOS backs, the 100 backs. And that is where my uneasiness begins. The CCD backs are awesome but the CMOS backs are just so undeniably better if you don't shoot everything at ISO50. After using the IQ3100, well it totally blew my mind and the CCD backs are pretty much off my radar - there is just that much of a difference in usability and to invest such an amount in Contax now, and not have the ability to upgrade now is what gets me feeling edgy. You can get a IQ150 for the contax which is amazing but the cropped sensor is limiting.

If you want to buy used the second hand market is tricky. The availability of this backs is rare and when they pop up they are usually extortionately priced because of the cameras cult popularity. There is a $10,000 P45 that has been on ebay for over a year now, and an IQ140 priced the same for a long time too.

All that is left to choose from with Medium Format is Hasselblad and Phase One. Two options only is sad, no Contax, no Rollei, I don't have a great interest in either of what is left to choose from as a system, it's just those backs are so good.

So the new Fuji with an adapter does present a new option worth investigating.

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

I think you can put contax glass on the Leica S2 as well.  That is a very nice camera to use.  To be honest... EVFs have really sold me.  Especially the good ones.  I would potentially see what happens over the next year will the Fuji.  It might be a good option.

You said on location and natural light portraits. I personally much prefer the CCD backs with studio lighting, even outdoors.  Some natural light work looks fine to me...other natural light images just dont...when it comes to portraits.  Like the H4D backs... I couldn't stand for natural light portraits.  Color always seemed slightly funny to me in the greens.  I think the CMOS sensors will give you a lot more flexibility in natural light.  50-ISO is a bit limiting outdoors.  Even at F/2.8.  And hand holding a digital back attached to a camera with a mirror at anything below 1/500 seems futile...at least to me.  Film might have hid it a bit...but digital is brutal once you get above 24mp.  I really want a digital back for my V series...but I know its worthless in terms of my use...I will never be able to hand hold that camera and get solid sharp images.  Just something to think about.  Everyone is a little different in this regard.

[chrismuc]

I have a Contax 645 w/ IQ180 and consider to get the Fuji GFX.

1
I would stay with the Contax system because it is rather probable that a Contax 645 - Fuji GF adapter (similar to Contax 645 - Canon EF or Contax 645 - Leica S) becomes available and then the lenses should work perfectly on the Fuji too.

2
If you want to proceed using the Contax digitally I only would invest in a 80 MP 54x40mm sensor back, best is IQ180 or Credo 80 (if that was offered in Contax mount, I don't recall), less preferable the older Leaf Aptus II 12 which provides the same excellent image quality but the back with its fan and slow low res display is of course far from up-to-date.
I would skip the 60 MP CCD options (Phase One IQ160, P65+, Credo 60) or smaller sensor options with less resolution (IQ150, IQ140, P45+, P25+, Credo 40, Leaf Aptus II 7 a.s.o.) because then using the Fuji GFX with its 50 MP 44x33mm CMOS back is cheaper and more versatile.

[BernardLanguillier]

And hand holding a digital back attached to a camera with a mirror at anything below 1/500 seems futile...at least to me.  Film might have hid it a bit...but digital is brutal once you get above 24mp.  I really want a digital back for my V series...but I know its worthless in terms of my use...I will never be able to hand hold that camera and get solid sharp images.

For what it's worth, in my first tests shooting the H6D-100c hand held with the 28mm f4 at shutter spped btwn 1/90s and 1/60s I have close to 100% of tack sharp images.

This would be much easier had the H6D a good Nikon like auto-ISO instead of no auto-ISO at all (what is Hasselblad thinking???), but it shows that it is possible to design a good mirror mechanism and that leaf shutter lenses generate very little vibration. Add the 2+kg and you have a system that is highly hand holdable.

I don't whether the other MF cameras can achieve the same.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Christopher]

No problem with 35mm at 1/125 with the XF as well.


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[bcooter]

I'd Never tell anyone what to shoot with, but I've used the Contax(s) for a lot of years and I find them amazing.

They're tough, have the sweetest sounding shutter made, almost zero vibration and have a true digital interface without special cables.

I shot with continuous light,  a p21+ an 80mm lens at f.35, autofocus, waist level finder at 3.5 1/60th and though the subjects aren't jumping around, there is no camera blur.



The only downside with the contax is prep.   You must keep all the electrical contacts clean, finder, lens, body, back and the only fragile area is yanking the camera out of a case by the end of the viewfinder as they have composite clips that secure the finder to the camera.

If they are yanked hard (not normal but hard, they'll crack and make contact of the finder to body iffy, but once you know it you don't do it so it's a non issue.

There is less and less Contax out there but I've always found what I needed, incdluding replacement parts and have double everything, so I don't worry.

The lenses have mechanical focus if you want to manually focus and with the waist level finder the view is big, with the prism finder it's smaller but you can manually focus if you chose and I do that a lot.

If you find a good dealer like Steve Hendrix at CI they will eventually source you a back and it should last as long as you want to use it.

Other cameras are good like the new Phase Camera, (though larger) and the Hasselblad H which has more product in rental but I wouldn't trade my Contax for anything.

I also shot this at 125th, tungsten and F4 at 400 iso.   With my p30+ I go to 800 all the time with little issue.



P21_CONTAX FLASH ADDED SONY MOVIE LOT



For me it works, for others they might see it different.

IMO

BC

[drevil]

as chrismuc, i am also considering the GFX, if there are good adapters available to use contax 645 lenses on the GFX.
but i will do that towards the end of the year, since i just upgraded to an IQ180 for my Contax.

the image quality this system produces is outstanding, but of course many systems are.
i prefer the contax for its simplicity, no whistles and bells.

just get any p45+ you can see for any mount, the mount switch by phase costs around 1000$ if there is no value added warranty available.
i still have to see when how and IF my p45+ will ever be available or if i will stick with it. time will tell.

the contax may be commercially dead, but whats on the market is strong and kicking, a shame phase one disconntinued the contax mount when they started the IQ3 series.

[chrismuc]

IMO the Phase One XF can be considered like an updated version of the Contax 645.

So if you like that type of MF SLR cam with full frame sensor, using the Contax 645 one can get nearly the picture quality at ISO 35/ 50/ 100 for a fraction of invest.

A second hand Contax 645 80 MP system w/ 7 lenses
- Contax 645 w/ prism and waist level view finder
- IQ180
- 35f3.5
- 45f2.8
- 55f3.5
- 80f2
- 140f2.8
- 210f4
- 120f 4 Macro
set's you back about EUR/USD 23.000

A new Phase One XF 100 MP system w/ 7 blue ring lenses
- Phase One XF w/ prism and waist level view finder
- IQ3100
- 35f2.5
- 45f3.5
- 55f3.5
- 80f2.8
- 150f2.8
- 240f4.5
- 120f4 Macro
set's you back about EUR/USD 72.000

[Bo_Dez]

just get any p45+ you can see for any mount, the mount switch by phase costs around 1000$ if there is no value added warranty available.

Thankyou this is interesting! Is a mount swap a viable option? I was under the impression it was only possible if they had another C645 back in stock to swap it with.

[Bo_Dez]

Also, those shooting the Contax 645 digitally, how do you find the CA wide open with the 80 and 140 lenses?

TIA

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi BC,

Thanks for sharing good info and nice images, even if you don't see all the work behind those images!

Best regards
Erik

I'd Never tell anyone what to shoot with, but I've used the Contax(s) for a lot of years and I find them amazing.

They're tough, have the sweetest sounding shutter made, almost zero vibration and have a true digital interface without special cables.

I shot with continuous light,  a p21+ an 80mm lens at f.35, autofocus, waist level finder at 3.5 1/60th and though the subjects aren't jumping around, there is no camera blur.



The only downside with the contax is prep.   You must keep all the electrical contacts clean, finder, lens, body, back and the only fragile area is yanking the camera out of a case by the end of the viewfinder as they have composite clips that secure the finder to the camera.

If they are yanked hard (not normal but hard, they'll crack and make contact of the finder to body iffy, but once you know it you don't do it so it's a non issue.

There is less and less Contax out there but I've always found what I needed, incdluding replacement parts and have double everything, so I don't worry.

The lenses have mechanical focus if you want to manually focus and with the waist level finder the view is big, with the prism finder it's smaller but you can manually focus if you chose and I do that a lot.

If you find a good dealer like Steve Hendrix at CI they will eventually source you a back and it should last as long as you want to use it.

Other cameras are good like the new Phase Camera, (though larger) and the Hasselblad H which has more product in rental but I wouldn't trade my Contax for anything.

I also shot this at 125th, tungsten and F4 at 400 iso.   With my p30+ I go to 800 all the time with little issue.



P21_CONTAX FLASH ADDED SONY MOVIE LOT



For me it works, for others they might see it different.

IMO

BC

[Steve Hendrix]

as chrismuc, i am also considering the GFX, if there are good adapters available to use contax 645 lenses on the GFX.
but i will do that towards the end of the year, since i just upgraded to an IQ180 for my Contax.

the image quality this system produces is outstanding, but of course many systems are.
i prefer the contax for its simplicity, no whistles and bells.

just get any p45+ you can see for any mount, the mount switch by phase costs around 1000$ if there is no value added warranty available.
i still have to see when how and IF my p45+ will ever be available or if i will stick with it. time will tell.

the contax may be commercially dead, but whats on the market is strong and kicking, a shame phase one disconntinued the contax mount when they started the IQ3 series.

For clarity, a Phase One "mount swap" costs $3,000, not $1,000. The mount is not actually swapped, the entire unit is swapped for the same model in the interface one is after.

Typically, it is only reliably available on currently shipping product (at this point in time, 50mp/80mp/100mp models). And also for recently discontinued models, this may be an option, it all just depends on the on hand inventory. It's a long shot, but occasionally a model like the P45, which was discontinued about 5 years ago, may find its way into the inventory via the upgrade process, but in very small quantities and limited interfaces. At any rate, you certainly wouldn't want to pay for a mount swap on a model that old anyway. You're better off being patient and waiting for that model to show up somewhere in the interface you're after.

Recently I've seen P65+ Contax and P45+ Contax show up in our inventory. So, once in a while, they will still appear.


Steve Hendrix/CI