Dropping My X1D Order, Affirming My GFX Order

[Stephen Scharf]

The X1D is beautiful to look at (and probably hold), but like the Pentax K1 (which I returned), it is not ready IMO for the kind of work I do. I hope the Fuji GFX will be more like what I need. Otherwise, I look to the NIkon D820 for the immediate future.

P.S. I also returned the Sony A7r and A7rII for similar reasons. Just color me particular.

My guess, looking at the control features and layout, etc. is that the GFX is going to work for you if you can obtain the color profile you're looking for. From the videos I've seen of it in use, it looks to be designed to be a real workhorse.

[Stephen Scharf]

Lloyd says the long exposure is better than D810's, which is hard to believe, and if true, better than excellent!

I believe it from what I've seen; his evaluation is definitely worth a subscription, IMHO, especially as he will very likely start comparing it to the GFX when it debuts for sale, and hopefully other MF or FF systems. His still life of the flowers he put up was pretty darned stunning.

[Lust4Life]

I cancelled my order on Thursday.  Pulling away from Hassie for all the obvious reasons.
Good concept terribly executed compounded with now being owned by the Chinese firm that makes drones.
A firm that several of my buddies that are serious about drones tell me is among the worst to do business with!

I'm outta Hasselblad is all I have to say after just short of 50 years.

[BernardLanguillier]

I cancelled my order on Thursday.  Pulling away from Hassie for all the obvious reasons.
Good concept terribly executed compounded with now being owned by the Chinese firm that makes drones.
A firm that several of my buddies that are serious about drones tell me is among the worst to do business with!

I'm outta Hasselblad is all I have to say after just short of 50 years.

I love your post, it is such a great parody of Trump like statements devoid of any sense.

Well done!

Cheers,
Bernard

[Lust4Life]

I love your post, it is such a great parody of Trump like statements devoid of any sense.

Well done!

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard,  Your criticism is one of the very few posts that I have seen you make that indicate you did not read what was written.  I am surprised you
can not extract that:
1. The company is obviously in financial stress if you count the number of times it has changed ownership.
2. They can not keep top management on board - count them.
3. They are controlled now by one of the worst manufacturers of drones as it relates to customer support and one that is historically releasing product that is not throughly tested - let the customer figure out our bugs is their mantra.
4.  Can't roll out a well conceived product through the manufacturing cycle into the market place with ANY professionalism or transparency.
5.  etc., etc., etc.............

Come on Bernard, you can do better than that, can't you?

As such, I'll not invest in gear that easily exceeds $10K of my cash with a firm that can't run it's own business in a manner other than how to be a text book example of how NOT to run one.

Remember, there are alternatives that are run better!
 
Good day to you.  We will disagree completely, and I'll let you enjoy this Chinese firms level of Customer Support.

[eronald]

private equity tend to turn over their properties - and Hassy have value more as an imaging resource and a silo of aerial ohoto clients than a producer of cameras ... but what you say may be true

Dji are very innovative.

i think Hassy has ok support here in Europe. Us is not their zone.

X1D is too novel, a concept more than a camera.

and all you say is a bit true.

Bernard,  Your criticism is one of the very few posts that I have seen you make that indicate you did not read what was written.  I am surprised you
can not extract that:
1. The company is obviously in financial stress if you count the number of times it has changed ownership.
2. They can not keep top management on board - count them.
3. They are controlled now by one of the worst manufacturers of drones as it relates to customer support and one that is historically releasing product that is not throughly tested - let the customer figure out our bugs is their mantra.
4.  Can't roll out a well conceived product through the manufacturing cycle into the market place with ANY professionalism or transparency.
5.  etc., etc., etc.............

Come on Bernard, you can do better than that, can't you?

As such, I'll not invest in gear that easily exceeds $10K of my cash with a firm that can't run it's own business in a manner other than how to be a text book example of how NOT to run one.

Remember, there are alternatives that are run better!
 
Good day to you.  We will disagree completely, and I'll let you enjoy this Chinese firms level of Customer Support.

[Michael Erlewine]

X1D is too novel, a concept more than a camera.

There is truth to this statement IMO.

The X1D is a concept that sets a standard, one that it too is trying to meet. It may well be fleshed out in firmware, with some of the major problems being fixable. I see it (for me) as a travel camera, if I only traveled. There is a lot of vetting that needs doing. When I start adding up what I need for the work I like to do, it becomes difficult to justify the X1D. Let's see: I need an easy (preferably wired) remote, a flash system that works, to be able to play-back in the EVF, etc. and etc. Unfortunately, I end up with the GFX in my future, which really is not the concept the X1D IS, but more like the next version of what I already am using (d810). So, it is bitter-sweet for me. A couple of years and this will be all sorted out.

[hubell]

There is truth to this statement IMO.

The X1D is a concept that sets a standard, one that it too is trying to meet. It may well be fleshed out in firmware, with some of the major problems being fixable. I see it (for me) as a travel camera, if I only traveled. There is a lot of vetting that needs doing. When I start adding up what I need for the work I like to do, it becomes difficult to justify the X1D. Let's see: I need an easy (preferably wired) remote, a flash system that works, to be able to play-back in the EVF, etc. and etc. Unfortunately, I end up with the GFX in my future, which really is not the concept the X1D IS, but more like the next version of what I already am using (d810). So, it is bitter-sweet for me. A couple of years and this will be all sorted out.

To be completely frank, if you can't make a great photograph with the X1D, that's your problem, not the camera's. For decades, beautiful work has been done with film Hasselblads, Mamiya 7s, Pentax 67s, Phase and Hasselblad digital backs and on and on. Remarkably, none of them have playback of the image in an EVF. I have been using the X1D for two weeks now, and compared to my other cameras that I have used in recent years, an H2 with a Phase IQ180, a Sony A7RII, and a Mamiya 7, there is NOTHING about the X1D that holds me back.Yes, it is a concept, a brilliant concept: a small, lightweight, medium format digital camera with terrific lenses and a clean interface that is fully capable of taking phenomenal photographs with beautiful color and tone. It works very well in practice. And, it has none of the crap that Japanese cameras are filled with and that get in my way. No doubt in the not too distant future, Hasselblad will add features to the X1D in firmware. For me, these are nice to haves, but the idea that I can't make a great photograph without them in the meantime is ridiculous. If my photographs aren't compelling, that's on me, not the camera.
BTW, where did you get the idea that there isn't a flash system that works with the X1D? What flash did you try?

[Michael Erlewine]

BTW, where did you get the idea that there isn't a flash system that works with the X1D? What flash did you try?

Lloyd Chambers points out a lot of flash problems in detail, which I am not going to repeat here. I don't have an X1D to try, so am going on those reports that do.

I find these kind of either/or exchanges difficult to understand and mostly not worthwhile. It is clear to me that a number of us have clearly in mind what we need for our particular work with a camera, NOT that it (or we) can't take a good picture. Etc.

As the OP, I have appreciated the different views on the X1D, the GFX, etc. I certainly am not saying that the X1D is not this or that, but only whether it will do what I need done... and so on. 

[hubell]

Lloyd Chambers points out a lot of flash problems in detail, which I am not going to repeat here. I don't have an X1D to try, so am going on those reports that do.

I find these kind of either/or exchanges difficult to understand and mostly not worthwhile. It is clear to me that a number of us have clearly in mind what we need for our particular work with a camera, NOT that it (or we) can't take a good picture. Etc.

As the OP, I have appreciated the different views on the X1D, the GFX, etc. I certainly am not saying that the X1D is not this or that, but only whether it will do what I need done... and so on.

Lloyd Chambers tried out one flash with the X1D, a Nikon SB-300. His complaint was that he could not downward adjust the flash output so as to use it for subtle fill flash outdoors, and he therefore concluded that fill flash is not available with the X1D. That is true with the SB-300, as it is a minimalist design that requires the flash exposure compensation level to be set through the camera menu and the X1D does not yet offer that. However, other Nikon flashes like the SB-700 permit the flash exposure compensation to be set on the flash itself.

Look, I understand that everyone has their own needs and wants, and for many the GFX or something else altogether is a better choice than the X1D. What I object to is the assertion that the X1D is a concept that is not yet operational. That is simply inaccurate.

[voidshatter]

To be completely frank, if you can't make a great photograph with the X1D, that's your problem, not the camera's. For decades, beautiful work has been done with film Hasselblads, Mamiya 7s, Pentax 67s, Phase and Hasselblad digital backs and on and on.

Are you aware that Hasselblad used to make its way to the space with NASA? Why has Nikon taken its place? There must be something wrong with NASA's recent photography skills, right? Hell they cannot make great photos with Hasselblad in the space any more, despite the fact that they used to make beautiful work with Hasselblad in the space before!

[cgarnerhome]

You can make great photos with almost any camera but I don't think that's the point of the post. I for one am happy that people are having great experiences with the X1D as I'm sure it's a fine camera.  It's just not one that I'm choosing to buy.

[JoeKitchen]

To be completely frank, if you cant make a great photograph with the Kodak Brownie, that's ...

[BernardLanguillier]

Come on Bernard, you can do better than that, can't you?

Apologies, I really thought your post had to be read at the second degree.

What I see in Hasselblad is:
- an ambitious company that has the best MF line-up in the industry wth cameras and lenses delivering very high levels of image quality and a great look,
- two ambitious ranges of products that are finally shipping after important delays and whose actual users are very positive overall
- a company that does have some challenges but that is in a much better positin than it was 5 years ago, one year ago or even 3 months ago
- an important investor, itself a growing company, not perfect but ambitious and financially healthy and belonging to the image making industry instead of being an investement fund only interested in financial returns

Yes, there are problems, but it takes a very negative mindset not to see the potential, ambition and very positive overall trend. I tend to like companies taking risks to move forward.

Finally, if your comment really is to be read at the first degree, what is it with that cheap shot at the Chinese. That really is Trump like in the worst meaning of the expressin.

Cheers,
Bernard

[hubell]

You can make great photos with almost any camera but I don't think that's the point of the post. I for one am happy that people are having great experiences with the X1D as I'm sure it's a fine camera.  It's just not one that I'm choosing to buy.

The point of the post that I responded to was that the X1D is a great concept, but that's it, implying that it is utterly lacking in operability. That's BS. Of course, if you need play back through the EVF, well, what can I say.

[cgarnerhome]

Fair enough!

[chrismuc]

I see the X1D more like a 'reduced to the max' concept camera like a Leica M, so people buying and loving it won't discuss what the cam is lacking.

If you compare the features of the X1D and GFX and assumed that the image quality (of cam and lenses) is basically equivalent

the Hassi X1D would the choice if the preference is:
- small body
- light body
- central shutter lenses
- short flash exp. time due to central shutter
- (mainly) menu based user interface

the Fuji GFX would the choice if features are needed like:
- FPS
- 1/4000s shortest exp. time, 1/16000s w/ ES
- EFCS
- ES
- 3 f/s
- shortest shutter lag
- remote cable release
- silent shutter noise
- optional battery grip
- (mainly) dial/ button/ lever user interface
- short start-up time
- high EVF resolution
- highest EVF magnification
- high EVF refresh rate
- short EVF lag
- play mode in EVF
- optional tiltable EVF
- large number of focus points
- larger AF area
- face/eye detection
- higher AF speed
- AF point selection w/ joystick
- high resolution TFT screen
- tiltable TFT screen
- super wide angle AF lens
- fast portrait AF tele lens
- AF macro lens
- AF zoom lens
- option to adapt 3rd party lenses

[hubell]

I see the X1D more like a 'reduced to the max' concept camera like a Leica M, so people buying and loving it won't discuss what the cam is lacking.

If you compare the features of the X1D and GFX and assumed that the image quality (of cam and lenses) is basically equivalent

the Hassi X1D would the choice if the preference is:
- small body
- light body
- central shutter lenses
- short flash exp. time due to central shutter
- (mainly) menu based user interface

the Fuji GFX would the choice if features are needed like:
- FPS
- 1/4000s shortest exp. time, 1/16000s w/ ES
- EFCS
- ES
- 3 f/s
- shortest shutter lag
- remote cable release
- silent shutter noise
- optional battery grip
- (mainly) dial/ button/ lever user interface
- short start-up time
- high EVF resolution
- highest EVF magnification
- high EVF refresh rate
- short EVF lag
- play mode in EVF
- optional tiltable EVF
- large number of focus points
- larger AF area
- face/eye detection
- higher AF speed
- AF point selection w/ joystick
- high resolution TFT screen
- tiltable TFT screen
- super wide angle AF lens
- fast portrait AF tele lens
- AF macro lens
- AF zoom lens
- option to adapt 3rd party lenses

This kind of comparison is sort of ridiculous, because it fails to prioritize what is most important to any single photographer. It completely ignores the issue of how a camera handles in your hands. It's also premature. Let's discuss the comparison in a few weeks after the GFX finds its way into the hands of photographers who are not Fuji ambassadors and we can shoot both cameras in the wild and process the raw files side by side. Hasselblad has made the X1D available to thousands of photographers to try. The GFX has essentially been under lock and key.
Let's also see what Hasselblad has in store for lenses for the X1D, as I have heard that Hasselblad may soon issue a roadmap of 5 new XCD lenses that it intends to release during 2017.
I don't think those who have bought the X1D are reluctant to discuss what it is missing. They just have different priorities as to what is most important. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The way it works for me, I see the camera as a picture making device. Weight and format obviously matters not least when on travel as I feel that I want a complete lens kit and two camera bodies, one for back up, all in the cabin luggage. So, for me small lenses are a big plus.

I mostly shoot on tripod, so how the camera works handheld doesn't matter for me. Efficient live view, magnification and things like Af-point selection matters a lot.

When shooting macro, which often at a low level above ground, I feel that an articulated screen is an essential feature, especially combined with a well working AF.

None of the cameras I have bought in the last 12 years is something that has been in my hands before it arrived by mail.

If you check out the features you need and add some preferences the short list of choices may get very short.

My list:

- Access to great lenses (covering ultravide to long telephoto)
- Good live view
- Actual pixels magnification on live view for accurate focus
- Vibration free release
- Tilts with lenses from 28-100 mm (24x36 mm equivalent)
- Access to shift lenses
- Articulating display
- AF that is well working over a large part of the image, with selectable AF-points

Not that many major cameras match that list.

Live view implementation was the driving factor behind all cameras I bought since 2008, except that I switched to Sony A7rII late 2015. The reason I switched to the A7rII was that it allowed for tilt and shift options and use of canon lenses. The reason I skipped over the original A7r was mostly lack of EFSC and on sensor PDAF. I ordered the A7rII as early as possible, so I had a long wait. X1D buyers have all my sympathy, but it seems that many X1D buyers got their cameras and that they work fine.

Best regards
Erik

I see the X1D more like a 'reduced to the max' concept camera like a Leica M, so people buying and loving it won't discuss what the cam is lacking.

If you compare the features of the X1D and GFX and assumed that the image quality (of cam and lenses) is basically equivalent

the Hassi X1D would the choice if the preference is:
- small body
- light body
- central shutter lenses
- short flash exp. time due to central shutter
- (mainly) menu based user interface

the Fuji GFX would the choice if features are needed like:
- FPS
- 1/4000s shortest exp. time, 1/16000s w/ ES
- EFCS
- ES
- 3 f/s
- shortest shutter lag
- remote cable release
- silent shutter noise
- optional battery grip
- (mainly) dial/ button/ lever user interface
- short start-up time
- high EVF resolution
- highest EVF magnification
- high EVF refresh rate
- short EVF lag
- play mode in EVF
- optional tiltable EVF
- large number of focus points
- larger AF area
- face/eye detection
- higher AF speed
- AF point selection w/ joystick
- high resolution TFT screen
- tiltable TFT screen
- super wide angle AF lens
- fast portrait AF tele lens
- AF macro lens
- AF zoom lens
- option to adapt 3rd party lenses

[Michael Erlewine]

Hi,

The way it works for me, I see the camera as a picture making device. Weight and format obviously matters not least when on travel as I feel that I want a complete lens kit and two camera bodies, one for back up, all in the cabin luggage. So, for me small lenses are a big plus.

I mostly shoot on tripod, so how the camera works handheld doesn't matter for me. Efficient live view, magnification and things like Af-point selection matters a lot.

When shooting macro, which often at a low level above ground, I feel that an articulated screen is an essential feature, especially combined with a well working AF.

None of the cameras I have bought in the last 12 years is something that has been in my hands before it arrived by mail.

If you check out the features you need and add some preferences the short list of choices may get very short.

My list:

- Access to great lenses (covering ultravide to long telephoto)
- Good live view
- Actual pixels magnification on live view for accurate focus
- Vibration free release
- Tilts with lenses from 28-100 mm (24x36 mm equivalent)
- Access to shift lenses
- Articulating display
- AF that is well working over a large part of the image, with selectable AF-points

Not that many major cameras match that list.

Live view implementation was the driving factor behind all cameras I bought since 2008, except that I switched to Sony A7rII late 2015. The reason I switched to the A7rII was that it allowed for tilt and shift options and use of canon lenses. The reason I skipped over the original A7r was mostly lack of EFSC and on sensor PDAF. I ordered the A7rII as early as possible, so I had a long wait. X1D buyers have all my sympathy, but it seems that many X1D buyers got their cameras and that they work fine.

Best regards
Erik

+1 for me, except I don't care about auto-focus because I always manually focus. The two main concerns for me are a usable LiveView and low ISO, which makes the D810 a workhorse for me. Whether or not I buy a GFX, I will keep my Nikon D810 (just out of respect) and perhaps pick up the D820, if indeed it is 46 Mpx as rumored, maintains the ISO 64..... and hopefully improves the LiveView screen.

Nikon D810, El Nikkor 105mm APO. Not too shabby.