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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 916361 times)

Raul_82

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3860 on: June 26, 2017, 02:28:16 pm »

While it's estimated that 13 million people would lose insurance under the GOP plan. I don't believe America will ever have the level of affordable and accessible healthcare enjoyed by Australia, Japan, and most other advanced countries.

I hear that Trumpcare is like Trump University except that you die.
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RSL

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3861 on: June 26, 2017, 02:40:30 pm »

It's probably time to start a TRUMP II branch on LuLa so the Coffee Corner can be cleared of this absurd, ongoing, never-ending series of asinine posts. Trump's been President now for six months and he's going to continue to be President for at least another 3 1/2 years; probably for another 7 1/2 years. The 7 1/2 probability is being enhanced by the kind of thing you see on this thread.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3862 on: June 26, 2017, 02:48:27 pm »

Is anyone surprised the Trump dossier was prepared by a Democrat and Clinton operative?

Too bad the truth doesn't line up with your "facts"...

How the Trump dossier came to light: secret sources, a retired spy and John McCain

Quote
What began as opposition research during the Republican primary slowly grew from a covert investigation into an extraordinary but unverified global story

The extraordinary but unverified documents published on Tuesday on Donald Trump’s ties with Moscow began life as a piece of opposition research, which has become as much a part of US politics as yard signs and coloured balloons.

There is a small industry of research and investigative firms in Washington, typically staffed by a mix of former journalists and security officials, adept at finding information about politicians that the politicians would rather stay hidden. The firms often do not know who exactly is hiring them; the request could come from a law firm acting on behalf of a client from one of the parties.

In this case, the request for opposition research on Donald Trump came from one of his Republican opponents in the primary campaign. The research firm then hired one of its sub-contractors who it used regularly on all things Russian: a retired western European former counter-intelligence official, with a long history of dealing with the shadow world of Moscow’s spooks and siloviki (securocrats).

By the time the contractor had started his research, however, the Republican primary was over. The original client had dropped out, but the firm that had hired him had found a new, Democratic client. This was not necessarily the Hillary Clinton campaign or the Democratic National Committee. Opposition research is frequently financed by wealthy individuals who have donated all they can and are looking for other ways to help.

By July, the counter-intelligence contractor had collected a significant amount of material based on Russian sources who he had grown to trust over the years – not just in Moscow, but also among oligarchs living in the west. He delivered his reports, but the gravity of their contents weighed on him. If the allegations were real, their implications were overwhelming.

He delivered a set to former colleagues in the FBI, whose counter-intelligence division would be the appropriate body to investigate. It is believed he also passed a copy to his own country’s intelligence service, but it felt constrained in what action it could take and left it up to the Americans to do their own investigation and draw their own conclusions.

So, why let facts ruin a good story, huh?

The Blaze article (and the NY Post article it quoted) kinda glossed over the fact it was started by republican anti-trumpers before being pitched to democrats. The Blaze and Post article glosses over the fact that the two founding partners; Glenn R. Simpson and Peter Fritsch were both former journalists for The Wall Street Journal, not a known hotbed of leftist journalism huh?

The dossier was first commissioned as opposition research by one of his republican opponents (we don't know who). But after the primary it's presumed that opponent did poorly and then cancelled the contract at which point the opposition research firm went looking for a new client. The research firm found a democratic client.

So what started as a republican effort turned into a democratic effort which so concerned the investigator that he continued the investigation pro bono and turned over the dossier to friends at the FBI and presumably his own country.

The interesting thing is that while there are things in the dossier that are not yet confirmed, there are some things that have been confirmed.

I wonder what the truth is, don't you?
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3863 on: June 26, 2017, 02:59:52 pm »

It's probably time to start a TRUMP II branch on LuLa so the Coffee Corner can be cleared of this absurd, ongoing, never-ending series of asinine posts.

You are free to quit reading these asinine posts any time now bud.

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Trump's been President now for six months and he's going to continue to be President for at least another 3 1/2 years; probably for another 7 1/2 years. The 7 1/2 probability is being enhanced by the kind of thing you see on this thread.

That's assuming Trump doesn't pop a blood vessel yelling at his TV or isn't taken down by the numerous investigations that have spawned. Heck, he's only been president for 6 months and we know of 3 House and at least 2 maybe 3 Senate investigations then the FBI and the special council investigation. But hey, maybe nothing really will come of them all. Or, maybe he ends up getting drummed out of office.

In either event, as long as this thread does not devolve into personal attacks and nastiness to each other, I'm pretty sure Kevin and Chris will let this thread continue. Heck, we're at almost 4K posts and 99K reads. Why quit now?
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RSL

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3864 on: June 26, 2017, 03:11:31 pm »

What makes you think I've been reading it, Jeff? I gave that up weeks ago. The problem with it is that it's just THERE on the Coffee Corner. It's like a roadblock steering traffic around a broken sewer.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3865 on: June 26, 2017, 03:35:41 pm »

And, now to continue this absurd, ongoing, never-ending series of asinine posts...

The President of the United States of America was very, very busy on Twitter on Sunday. In case you missed them:

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Donald J. Trump‏
@realDonaldTrump

The Democrats have become nothing but OBSTRUCTIONISTS, they have no policies or ideas. All they do is delay and complain.They own ObamaCare!

5:30 AM - 26 Jun 2017

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏
@realDonaldTrump

The reason that President Obama did NOTHING about Russia after being notified by the CIA of meddling is that he expected Clinton would win..

5:37 AM - 26 Jun 2017

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Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

...and did not want to "rock the boat." He didn't "choke," he colluded or obstructed, and it did the Dems and Crooked Hillary no good.

5:50 AM - 26 Jun 2017

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Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

The real story is that President Obama did NOTHING after being informed in August about Russian meddling. With 4 months looking at Russia...

5:59 AM - 26 Jun 2017

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Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

..under a magnifying glass, they have zero "tapes" of T people colluding. There is no collusion & no obstruction. I should be given apology!

6:05 AM - 26 Jun 2017

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Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Republican Senators are working very hard to get there, with no help from the Democrats. Not easy! Perhaps just let OCare crash & burn!

6:14 AM - 26 Jun 2017

Such a busy boy...but Donny, the election is over, if Obama HAD done something more than he did YOU would likely not president and the reason that democrats have not been involved in any healthcare discussions at all? Only 13 old GOP white guys did the top secret draft of the senate healthcare plan and democrats were forbidden from the meetings. Kinda hard to to get support for something done in total secrecy, don't ya think?
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3866 on: June 26, 2017, 03:39:52 pm »

What makes you think I've been reading it, Jeff?

Uh because you described it as absurd, ongoing, never-ending series of asinine posts?

But, oooops, you came and read it again...you need to exert more self discipline–DON'T READ THIS POST

 :~)
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3867 on: June 26, 2017, 04:23:24 pm »

The Trumpster is so darn smart, he outsmarted himself (and not for the first time).

John Oliver: Donald Trump’s Tape Admission “Extraordinarily Stupid” Confirmation Of James Comey Testimony



Quote
Last Week Tonight host John Oliver reveled in last week’s admission by President Donald Trump that he did not, as he had suggested on Twitter, tape his conversations with FBI director James Comey before sacking him.

James Comey better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!” Trump tweeted back in May.

On Thursday, Trump tweeted that he had no idea if someone taped conversations with Comey, but he did not have any such tapes. Soon thereafter, Trump explained why he had suggested there were recordings, telling Fox News Channel that while he did not tape Comey, “you never know what’s happening when you see the Obama administration” with all its “unmasking and surveillance” and “horrible situation with surveillance all over the place, so you never know what’s out there.”

Observed Oliver, “Whenever Trump talks, it’s like a cross between a lottery machine that spits out words and a Speak & Spell that just fell into a toilet.

But Trump also explained to FNC the strategic brilliance of his first tweet as a means of influencing Comey.

“When he found out that maybe there were tapes out there, whether governmental tapes or who knows…I think his story may have changed,” Trump said of Comey’s testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee.

“You’ll have to take a look at that, because he has to tell what actually took place at the events. My story didn’t change. My story was always a straight story. My story was always the truth. But you’ll have to determine for yourself whether or not his story changed.”

Thrown a compliment that it was “a smart way to make sure he stayed honest at those hearings” Trump responded, “Well, it wasn’t very stupid, I can tell you.”

“Let’s break down what just happened there,” Oliver dove in with both feet.

“He didn’t just casually admit to misleading the American public. He also implied that doing so may have swayed Comey testimony which, if that was his intent, could constitute witness tampering.”

Trump also implied in his remark that tossing out the tape idea compelled Comey to tell the truth. In so doing, Oliver noted, Trump verified Comey’s account of his interaction with Trump, “which is incredibly damaging to the president.”

“So yeah, Trump might be right. It wasn’t very stupid.

“It was extraordinarily stupid.”

It's remarkable what Trump says and/or tweets when he's not using a teleprompter. But heh, Trump's like a smart guy, really–he said so himself!!!

Trump to CIA: ‘Trust me, I'm like a smart person’
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Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3868 on: June 26, 2017, 04:26:56 pm »

Interesting that I read nothing about what Trump said regarding his reasons that liberals and the biased media made such a big deal out of calling him a bigot.  Nor did I read any opinion how the "establish clause" of the Constitution regarding religious rights of Muslims or other religious groups, had anything to do with their decision.  They ignored these things.

Admittedly, this is fairly arcane stuff, but it's important to understand that this was a response to an application for a writ of certiorari—a request by the government for the Supreme Court to schedule a discretionary review of the preliminary injunctions, issued by lower federal courts, that have been preventing the Administration from restricting entry of foreign nationals pursuant to the Trump executive order.  It is not a decision on the merits of the claims by the plaintiffs who are challenging the executive order as an improper restriction on religious liberty.  No court, at any level, has yet decided the merits of this case.  The issue before the Supreme Court today was only whether the preliminary injunctions were properly granted.

In granting the writ of certiorari, the Supreme Court also modified the preliminary injunctions to the extent that they applied to foreigners with no connection to persons or institutions in the United States on the theory that

Quote
[d]enying entry to such a foreign national does not burden any American party by reason of that party’s relationship with the foreign national. And the courts below did not conclude that exclusion in such circumstances would impose any legally relevant hardship on the foreign national himself.

Preliminary injunctions are fairly rare.  They are granted when a court concludes that the party seeking the injunction is likely to win on the merits of its lawsuit.  The Supreme Court today rejected the government's contention that the lower courts should not have granted preliminary injunctions, but it modified those injunctions to the extent that they affected foreigners who have no claim that would be recognized under U.S. law.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 04:40:06 pm by Chris Kern »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3869 on: June 26, 2017, 04:29:19 pm »

Too bad the truth doesn't line up with your "facts"...

How the Trump dossier came to light: secret sources, a retired spy and John McCain

So, why let facts ruin a good story, huh?

I wonder what the truth is, don't you?
OK. Both Democrats and anti - Trump elite swamp Republicans paid for a phony dossier to get Trump.   A plague on both their houses.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3870 on: June 26, 2017, 05:03:08 pm »

Trump has been president for almost 6 months.  Shouldn't the vetting review already be done?

Or has the Trump administration done nothing?

The courts blocking the executive orders did not, in any way, affect the government's plan to review the vetting process.....if they ever had a plan that is.
I thought I already stated this somewhere. 

The point you are making is not correct.  The lower court stopped all government review of the vetting process. One of the appeals courts however, on or about June 12, allowed the review to commence again.  So the administration could not have completed the vetting review.  Now they'll get their 90 days per SCOTUS. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3871 on: June 26, 2017, 05:20:53 pm »

Admittedly, this is fairly arcane stuff, but it's important to understand that this was a response to an application for a writ of certiorari—a request by the government for the Supreme Court to schedule a discretionary review of the preliminary injunctions, issued by lower federal courts, that have been preventing the Administration from restricting entry of foreign nationals pursuant to the Trump executive order.  It is not a decision on the merits of the claims by the plaintiffs who are challenging the executive order as an improper restriction on religious liberty.  No court, at any level, has yet decided the merits of this case.  The issue before the Supreme Court today was only whether the preliminary injunctions were properly granted.

In granting the writ of certiorari, the Supreme Court also modified the preliminary injunctions to the extent that they applied to foreigners with no connection to persons or institutions in the United States on the theory that

Preliminary injunctions are fairly rare.  They are granted when a court concludes that the party seeking the injunction is likely to win on the merits of its lawsuit.  The Supreme Court today rejected the government's contention that the lower courts should not have granted preliminary injunctions, but it modified those injunctions to the extent that they affected foreigners who have no claim that would be recognized under U.S. law.
I understand your point.. But I'm wondering went on in private.  This was a 9-0 decision.  3 of the justices wrote a concurring brief that supported throwing out the entire lower court injunction.  In affect stating that even those who may have American connections should not be allowed in if only for the practical reason that how is the government going to determine that relationship.  It's not spelled out.  They said it will only go back to the same courts to review that just got overruled 9-0. 

Both the original full court ruling and the supporting ruling's conclusion never seem to consider religion or what Trump said although the SCOTUS papers referred to it when discussing the lower courts' rulings.  Nothing was said about the "sausage making" that goes on as laws and executive orders are done.   I think the fact SCOTUS didn't mention it gives hope that if they do return to this case, their ruling will definitive state that what Presidents and Congressmen and Senators say during free and open debate should not be part of a ruling.  Only what a law or Executive Order actually states should be reviewed for Constitutionality.  Otherwise every law and EO can be quashed based on what someone said rather than the act itself opening up every law to who said what and when.  It will stifle open and free debate.  Everyone's comments should be heard from the ones that are noble to those that are base because that's how sausages and laws are made.

Also, If this thing goes to SCOTUS again, which I doubt, we could also hear about whether the President and the law congress gives the president allows him to decide based on religious affiliation as well, and whether non-American aliens are protected by the establishment clause of the Constitution.  You would think the court would have somehow even mentioned it considering the 9-0 vote.  None of the 9 flinched regarding the establishment challenge to the EO or what Trump said prior to enacting the EO. 


« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 05:26:18 pm by Alan Klein »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3872 on: June 26, 2017, 06:05:41 pm »

That is correct.  People in the USA eat poorly and don't exercise nearly as much.  Until we stop actively trying to kill ourselves, our healthcare is always going to be pretty damn expensive.


Some of the healthcare costs are because Americans expect the best and not have to pay for it because insurance covers it.  The reasons it's cheaper in Europe and other places is that healthcare is rationed.  For example, you can get an MRI in the US the same or next day.  In other countries you have to wait months.  My wife who broke her leg and had surgery had 7 or 8 X-rays of the leg after surgery prescribed by the surgeon.  It cost around $475 for each x-ray including the radiologist's reviews.  Of course it only cost us 10% of that out-of-pocket.  So who cared?  If we had to pay that much, I would have at least asked the surgeon if it was necessary to have an xray every time.  Also, the surgeon ordered these Xrays for each visit to protect himself from malpractice lawsuits in case something went wrong.  So huge and unnecessary amounts are being spent for little practical purpose. 

What will happen with Obamacare, national health care, or Trumpcare, or whatever is that once everyone has insurance whether private or national, costs will become so high that rationing  will be imposed.  Also, more cost limits for doctor payment will be imposed lowering the quality of the doctors.  In any case, healthcare in the US is a runaway train.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3873 on: June 26, 2017, 06:08:55 pm »

...Furthermore, if people want to have children why can't they have them when they are ready?  Also, why can't people practice safe sex?  Neither are difficult to do. 
At my age, I'm for any kind of sex. :)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3874 on: June 26, 2017, 06:10:10 pm »

This is a tragic development for American justice system and democracy. It turns judges into mind readers, instead of reading the law.

Thanks god the SCOTUS agreed with me 😊

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3875 on: June 26, 2017, 09:44:51 pm »

Also, If this thing goes to SCOTUS again, which I doubt, we could also hear about whether the President and the law congress gives the president allows him to decide based on religious affiliation as well, and whether non-American aliens are protected by the establishment clause of the Constitution.

"This thing" is going to the Supreme Court again.  Precisely because what the Justices did in today's order was to agree to schedule the government's appeal for a hearing when the Supreme Court begins its new term in October.  In doing so, they slightly modified the lower court delay in carrying out Trump's executive order, which otherwise remains in effect while the issues are litigated.  That is all they did.  There has been no decision on the merits and in my experience* it's almost impossible to infer how the Court will finally rule in a particular case by its decision to grant certiorari.

When the Justices do consider the issues, there are a number of ways they could rule.  I think there are four likely alternatives.  They could (1) decide that the claims made by the plaintiffs, even when interpreted in a manner most favorable to the plaintiffs, could not as a matter of law constitute a valid challenge to the Trump executive order, and simply dismiss the lawsuits (i.e., no further evaluation of the facts by a trial court would be necessary); (2) provide guidance on the legal parameters that should govern future litigation on the issues, and let the lawsuits proceed in the lower courts; (3) declare the current case before the Supreme Court to be moot (not justiciable because of things that have happened between now and then—e.g., if the government has concluded its review of the entry procedures for the countries in question); (4) avoid these issues altogether and just rule on the validity of the part of the injunction they let stand today, which would be tantamount to proceeding per option 2 but without further legal guidance.
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*I'm a lawyer and I covered the Supreme Court as a reporter for six years.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3876 on: June 26, 2017, 11:32:49 pm »

"This thing" is going to the Supreme Court again.  Precisely because what the Justices did in today's order was to agree to schedule the government's appeal for a hearing when the Supreme Court begins its new term in October.  In doing so, they slightly modified the lower court delay in carrying out Trump's executive order, which otherwise remains in effect while the issues are litigated.  That is all they did.  There has been no decision on the merits and in my experience* it's almost impossible to infer how the Court will finally rule in a particular case by its decision to grant certiorari.

When the Justices do consider the issues, there are a number of ways they could rule.  I think there are four likely alternatives.  They could (1) decide that the claims made by the plaintiffs, even when interpreted in a manner most favorable to the plaintiffs, could not as a matter of law constitute a valid challenge to the Trump executive order, and simply dismiss the lawsuits (i.e., no further evaluation of the facts by a trial court would be necessary); (2) provide guidance on the legal parameters that should govern future litigation on the issues, and let the lawsuits proceed in the lower courts; (3) declare the current case before the Supreme Court to be moot (not justiciable because of things that have happened between now and then—e.g., if the government has concluded its review of the entry procedures for the countries in question); (4) avoid these issues altogether and just rule on the validity of the part of the injunction they let stand today, which would be tantamount to proceeding per option 2 but without further legal guidance.
___

*I'm a lawyer and I covered the Supreme Court as a reporter for six years.
Chris:  At first I though that 3 would happen since the 90 days will be over and the Administration would have completed it's new vetting process and the travel ban would end.  There would be no case to review.  Unfortunately, I'm thinking logically based on what most people would do. 

But now, I'm thinking that will not happen. Knowing Trump, the disruptor, he might want the fight to continue the case to prove he was right about all or most of the issues.  SCOTUS has already ruled 9-0 that the president has the right to exclude aliens.  So he can't lose on that.  SCOTUS is not going to reverse themselves.  It's possible that he could win on the other part where they agreed 6-3 that aliens with close relations with America or Americans cannot be banned.  But they could reverse even that and make him a 100% winner.  So he has little to lose by keeping it going and a lot to win politically.  Even if SCOTUS doesn't help with the other part, the issue would stay in the news and remind everyone he won.

So what he's going to do is to issue new vetting after the 90 days that would eliminate practically all entry of aliens for one year, or maybe even permanently until the war with ISIS is completed and we are safe again.  That will drive the Democrats nuts.  The liberal media will go crazy.  And his supporters will scream their approval at his determination to protect the country.  The lower court will say the ban is unconstitutional.  SCOTUS will overrule them and allow the ban against aliens with no relationship with America.

This is the part of the decision  that will make Trump feel he'll have the support of SCOTUS:

From SCOTUS Decision page 11:

...But the injunctions reach much further than that: They also bar enforcement of §2(c) against foreign nationals abroad who have no connection to the United States at all. The equities relied on by the lower courts do not balance the same way in that context.  Denying entry to such a foreign national does not burden any American party by reason of that party’s relationship with the foreign national. And the courts below did not conclude that exclusion in such circumstances would impose any legally relevant hardship on the foreign national himself.  See id., at 762 (“[A]n unadmitted and nonresident alien . . . has no constitutional right of entry to this country”).  So whatever burdens may result from enforcement of §2(c) against a foreign national who lacks any connection to this country, they are, at a minimum, a good deal less concrete than the hardships identified by the courts below. At the same time, the Government’s interest in enforcing §2(c), and the Executive’s authority to do so, are undoubtedly at their peak when there is no tie between the foreign national and the United States.  Indeed, EO–2 itself distinguishes between foreign nationals who have some connection to this country, and foreign nationals who do not, by establishing a case-by-case waiver system primarily for the benefit of individuals in the former cate- gory. See, e.g., §§3(c)(i)–(vi). The interest in preserving national security is “an urgent objective of the highest order.” Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project, 561 U. S. 1, 28 (2010). To prevent the Government from pursuing that objective by enforcing §2(c) against foreign nationals unconnected to the United States would appreciably injure its interests, without alleviating obvious hardship to anyone else...

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3877 on: June 26, 2017, 11:41:04 pm »

Clarification:  When I say all aliens, I'm referring to those from the 6 nations in the current EO. 

If Trump does what I suggest, or something like it, Scotus will know they've been had.  But what are they going to do about it?  They can't change their current position about aliens that have no relationship to America or Americans.  They'll have to continue that ban. 

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3878 on: June 26, 2017, 11:44:13 pm »

Trump just issued a warning to Syria's Assad and his top leaders not to drop more chemical bombs that they are apparently preparing to drop.  Otherwise, he will hold them personally responsible.  A red line like Obama.

Of course, I don't think this message is mainly for Assad.  It's really to put pressure on China regarding North Korea. 

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3879 on: June 27, 2017, 12:36:50 am »

MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WOULD GIVE UP ALCOHOL TO SEE DONALD TRUMP IMPEACHED, SURVEY SAYS

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Donald Trump's presidency has caused stress and anxiety in Americans across the country, many of whom have opted to offset their worries with an extra glass of wine or two or shots of whiskey from time to time. But as it turns out, the majority of citizens say they would quit drinking alcohol tomorrow if it meant the president would be impeached.

Nearly 73 percent of Democrats and 17 percent of Republicans said they would abstain from alcohol for the rest of their lives if they could see the official political process begin to remove Trump, according to a Detox.net survey of 1,013 men and women nationwide. The latest data set showing support for Trump’s impeachment—an exhaustive political process that includes no definite promise of his removal—comes at a time when multiple Democratic lawmakers are drafting articles of impeachment and at some point could bring them to the floor of Congress.

Meanwhile, more than 30 percent of Republicans surveyed said they’d quit drinking in order to have the media stop writing negative articles about Trump, compared to 6.5 percent of Democrats.


73 percent of Democrats and 17 percent of Republicans would quit drinking forever if it meant Trump would be impeached tomorrow.
DETOX

Personally, I've already given up drinking...sure glad I did otherwise this Trump stuff would drive me off the cliff!
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