Pages: 1 ... 185 186 [187] 188 189 ... 230   Go Down

Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 128274 times)

Otto Phocus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 684
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3720 on: June 19, 2017, 08:38:03 AM »

From a reference cited in a previous post.

Quote
  a group of prominent mental health professionals today agreed that they have an ethical obligation to expose to the public every instance of reality distortion, impulsive decision-making, and violation of presidential norms of behavior that singularize the Trump presidency.

First of all, I question the credability of any mental health care professional offering a professional opinion of someone they have neither examined nor reviewed the reports of anyone who has examined the person. This is what amateurs do, not professionals.

Second I question any ethical obligation to expose this type of information to the public. It is, in my opinion, actually unethical.

Third  IF, and that is a bigly if, these mental health care professionals can make a professional opinion based on simple observation and IF (another bigly if) there is an ethical obligation to release it to the public, then the same obligation needs to apply to all elected officials, not just one... And I don't think that is what anyone really wants.

We can all make our own layperson impressions and opinions of Trump based on how we choose to interpret what he says and his actions. Some may choose to interpret it positively, others may choose to interpret it negatively.  But health care professionals need to act according to the ethics of their profession.  To do otherwise puts their credibility in question.
Logged
I shoot with a Camera Obscura with an optical device attached that refracts and transmits light.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3721 on: June 19, 2017, 11:09:11 AM »

Sorry Alan, I don't buy it.

We are for freedom and free markets and this move does nothing buts hurts the Cuban people and free markets.  When I was there in January, I saw the beginnings of a thriving free market, very much brought on by American tourism.  This free market certainly undermines the government since it so successful, and the best way to chip away at the regime. 

Now it will contract due to this move. 

I could support restrictions on Americans dealing with military run businesses, but cutting off Cuba to Americans will only hurt the Cuban people and increase the Regime's control. 

Also, this is not a split issue like most things.  75% of the country want better relations with Cuba and the ability to visit.  Not to mention we have 54+ years of experience with the embargo, and guess what, it has done nothing. 

Absolutely nothing! 

This is a decision based on no logic, but on the emotions of a small group of people in FL. 

Not to mention we deal with countries that have much worse human rights records.  We, rightly so, don't tell them how to govern.  We should have no business lecturing Cuba either. 
Just to reiterate, Trump was doing what he promised his Cuban supporters.  It doesn't matter what others think,  It may or may not be a good or bad idea.  But if he didn't reverse Obama's action, people would just say "See, he even lies to his own supporters.  You just can't trust Trump."   

 But also, we tell a lot of other countries how they should govern.  Your argument we don't doesn't comport with what we actually do all the time.  Russia, Iran, North Korea as well as Cuba.  These all have  embargoes.  To blame America not trading with Cuba for their dictatorship isn't true.  Cuba has been trading with Canada, Europe etc.  Visitors from those countries have been going there for decades with no effect on Castro's control of the Cubans and hardly any economic advantage to the people.  I see the pictures of the 60 year old cars and decrepit old buildings.  They may make interesting photos for us photographers, but it just shows how Castro and Communism has held back a country and its people.  Most of the profits from tourism and trade goes to the Castro family, the military and his close associates who rule the roost.  The people get crap and will continue to get crap while Castro's and friends just get richer and secure their future control over the country.     The only difference between North Korea and Cuba is that Cuba is warm and has nice beaches. 
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3722 on: June 19, 2017, 11:13:12 AM »

From a reference cited in a previous post.

First of all, I question the credability of any mental health care professional offering a professional opinion of someone they have neither examined nor reviewed the reports of anyone who has examined the person. This is what amateurs do, not professionals.

Second I question any ethical obligation to expose this type of information to the public. It is, in my opinion, actually unethical.

Third  IF, and that is a bigly if, these mental health care professionals can make a professional opinion based on simple observation and IF (another bigly if) there is an ethical obligation to release it to the public, then the same obligation needs to apply to all elected officials, not just one... And I don't think that is what anyone really wants.

We can all make our own layperson impressions and opinions of Trump based on how we choose to interpret what he says and his actions. Some may choose to interpret it positively, others may choose to interpret it negatively.  But health care professionals need to act according to the ethics of their profession.  To do otherwise puts their credibility in question.
I agree.  Their opinions are political not scientific. 
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1216
    • advantica blog
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3723 on: June 19, 2017, 11:51:06 AM »

Just to reiterate, Trump was doing what he promised his Cuban supporters.  It doesn't matter what others think,  It may or may not be a good or bad idea.  But if he didn't reverse Obama's action, people would just say "See, he even lies to his own supporters.  You just can't trust Trump."   

But also, we tell a lot of other countries how they should govern. Your argument we don't doesn't comport with what we actually do all the time.  Russia, Iran, North Korea as well as Cuba.  These all have  embargoes.  To blame America not trading with Cuba for their dictatorship isn't true.  Cuba has been trading with Canada, Europe etc.  Visitors from those countries have been going there for decades with no effect on Castro's control of the Cubans and hardly any economic advantage to the people.  I see the pictures of the 60 year old cars and decrepit old buildings.  They may make interesting photos for us photographers, but it just shows how Castro and Communism has held back a country and its people.  Most of the profits from tourism and trade goes to the Castro family, the military and his close associates who rule the roost.  The people get crap and will continue to get crap while Castro's and friends just get richer and secure their future control over the country.     The only difference between North Korea and Cuba is that Cuba is warm and has nice beaches.

And that's the problem. It worked with postwar Germany and Japan, but it failed miserably in Iraq, Afghanistan, and a few other countries.
You can't tell Russia how to run their country. American system just wouldn't work there.

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3724 on: June 19, 2017, 11:59:10 AM »

Just to reiterate, Trump was doing what he promised his Cuban supporters.  It doesn't matter what others think,  It may or may not be a good or bad idea.  But if he didn't reverse Obama's action, people would just say "See, he even lies to his own supporters.  You just can't trust Trump."   

 But also, we tell a lot of other countries how they should govern.  Your argument we don't doesn't comport with what we actually do all the time.  Russia, Iran, North Korea as well as Cuba.  These all have  embargoes.  To blame America not trading with Cuba for their dictatorship isn't true.  Cuba has been trading with Canada, Europe etc.  Visitors from those countries have been going there for decades with no effect on Castro's control of the Cubans and hardly any economic advantage to the people.  I see the pictures of the 60 year old cars and decrepit old buildings.  They may make interesting photos for us photographers, but it just shows how Castro and Communism has held back a country and its people.  Most of the profits from tourism and trade goes to the Castro family, the military and his close associates who rule the roost.  The people get crap and will continue to get crap while Castro's and friends just get richer and secure their future control over the country.     The only difference between North Korea and Cuba is that Cuba is warm and has nice beaches.

You could not be more wrong considering the current estate of affairs. 

First, how is that wall coming along?  I was for Trump getting in, mainly due to his fiscal policy, and I could not be happier that his wall idea is failing.  I think the general electorate is a much bigger portion of the population then those whom would like us to return to a 54+ year policy of nothing but failure. 

Second, perhaps we do tell other countries how to govern, but we don't forbade citizens from going to any of them other then Cuba, even those with worse human rights violations.  Why is Cuba so special?  Also, why do we have the right to instruct others how to conduct themselves within their own country? 

Third, lets get serious on tourism; they have not be open for decades.  Tourism really only started to be accepted as a way to produce income after the USSR stopped being their cash cow, and it took a while for it to catch on.  So yes, everyone else has been visiting them for a while, but not in droves like you are implying. 

Also, no one spends more then Americans tourists, nor is any country closer (3 1/2 hour flight from Newark), so allowing Americans to tour the country is a huge plus for the hospitality industry, both private and public.  Americans will be more likely to visit and bring more money when they do then any other tourists.

Now I would be all for not allowing Americans to stay in military run hotels, since that would mean the moneys would go directly to the Cubans.  You could also forbade Americans from shopping in military run shops and restaurants, although that would be impossible to enforce. 

But forbidding all Americans from going will only take away from the Cuban people and the free market that is finally starting to flourish after 50 years. 

Third, when Raul Castro took over the country in 2012, he implemented many capitalistic reforms (which is interesting since it was he that was the communist, Fidel just wanted to get rid of Batista).  Of course, it took a little while for Cubans to start doing their own thing, but these reforms combined with Americans visiting have brought a great deal of wealth to the island, much of which is going to the average Cuban, not just the Castros. 

Your vision of what is going on in Cuba is nowhere near the reality of the situation. 

We should be embracing the Cuban people and preparing for Raul's retiring next February.  Making good with the new leader early will be the best chance we have of helping the Cuban people by influencing policy. 

This move is only going to make his successor more skeptical of us and help continue the same ideals of the past. 

Insofar as those in Miami, get over it!  At a certain time, one should cut their losses. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 12:08:29 PM by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3725 on: June 19, 2017, 12:21:38 PM »

And that's the problem. It worked with postwar Germany and Japan, but it failed miserably in Iraq, Afghanistan, and a few other countries.
You can't tell Russia how to run their country. American system just wouldn't work there.

I saw a really good interview a couple years ago, can't remember with who, that spoke about how the end of WW2 was a complete fluke.  Wars never end with countries making good with each and living in pease there after.  It just does not happen. 

Unfortunately, we in the USA live with this idea that wars can end that way always.  This is of a great detriment to us; look at the middle east.  We keep on spending money and resources thinking we can make pease and democracy work. 

It won't, and we have no right to try and make it work. 
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3726 on: June 19, 2017, 12:22:28 PM »

You could not be more wrong considering the current estate of affairs. 

First, how is that wall coming along?  I was for Trump getting in, mainly due to his fiscal policy, and I could not be happier that his wall idea is failing.  I think the general electorate is a much bigger portion of the population then those whom would like us to return to a 54+ year policy of nothing but failure. 

Second, perhaps we do tell other countries how to govern, but we don't forbade citizens from going to any of them other then Cuba, even those with worse human rights violations.  Why is Cuba so special?  Also, why do we have the right to instruct others how to conduct themselves within their own country? 

Third, lets get serious on tourism; they have not be open for decades.  Tourism really only started to be accepted as a way to produce income after the USSR stopped being their cash cow, and it took a while for it to catch on.  So yes, everyone else has been visiting them for a while, but not in droves like you are implying. 

Also, no one spends more then Americans tourists, nor is any country closer (3 1/2 hour flight from Newark), so allowing Americans to tour the country is a huge plus for the hospitality industry, both private and public.  Americans will be more likely to visit and bring more money when they do then any other tourists.

Now I would be all for not allowing Americans to stay in military run hotels, since that would mean the moneys would go directly to the Cubans.  You could also forbade Americans from shopping in military run shops and restaurants, although that would be impossible to enforce. 

But forbidding all Americans from going will only take away from the Cuban people and the free market that is finally starting to flourish after 50 years. 

Third, when Raul Castro took over the country in 2012, he implemented many capitalistic reforms (which is interesting since it was he that was the communist, Fidel just wanted to get rid of Batista).  Of course, it took a little while for Cubans to start doing their own thing, but these reforms combined with Americans visiting have brought a great deal of wealth to the island, much of which is going to the average Cuban, not just the Castros. 

Your vision of what is going on in Cuba is nowhere near the reality of the situation. 

We should be embracing the Cuban people and preparing for Raul's retiring next February.  Making good with the new leader early will be the best chance we have of helping the Cuban people by influencing policy. 

This move is only going to make his successor more skeptical of us and help continue the same ideals of the past. 

Insofar as those in Miami, get over it!  At a certain time, one should cut their losses. 
Joe,  I just read this article and it appears that Castro made out a lot better than we did.  His reversal of Obama's measures are half hearted, more for show.  Many of them are being left in placed or modified.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/us/politics/cuba-trump-engagement-restrictions.html?_r=0
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3727 on: June 19, 2017, 12:30:11 PM »

Joe,  I just read this article and it appears that Castro made out a lot better than we did.  His reversal of Obama's measures are half hearted, more for show.  Many of them are being left in placed or modified.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/us/politics/cuba-trump-engagement-restrictions.html?_r=0

Really? 

The article has nothing that supports your statement other then one quote from one Cuban.  A mere paragraph.  No evidence is shown at all. 

However, there is plenty within it that supports my side. 

Article after article is showing more free market activity in Cuba mainly due to American tourism and investment.  People are starting to make money in Cuba from the free market. 

In 54 years, this is the best thing that has happened to undermine communism on the island. 

This last clutch of a policy that has failed over and over again is going to due more harm then good. 

From your article, Senator Jeff Flake, Republican of Arizona, "By denying Americans the freedom to travel to Cuba, we will be denying them (Cuban people) customers, and they will be worse off."   
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 12:37:26 PM by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3728 on: June 19, 2017, 12:46:35 PM »

Really? 

The article has nothing that supports your statement other then one quote from one Cuban.  A mere paragraph.  No evidence is shown at all. 

However, there is plenty within it that supports my side. 

Article after article is showing more free market activity in Cuba mainly due to American tourism and investment.  People are starting to make money in Cuba from the free market. 

In 54 years, this is the best thing that has happened to undermine communism on the island. 

This last clutch of a policy that has failed over and over again is going to due more harm then good. 

From your article, Senator Jeff Flake, Republican of Arizona, "By denying Americans the freedom to travel to Cuba, we will be denying them (Cuban people) customers, and they will be worse off." 
The following was extracted from the NY Times article:

"Still, Mr. Trump’s action allowed him to claim credit for taking a tough stand while leaving in place many of the changes made by Mr. Obama, which polls have shown are broadly supported, including by most Republicans.
Under the directive, embassies in Washington and Havana will stay open and cruises and direct flights between the United States and Cuba will be protected under an exception from the prohibition on transactions with military-controlled entities.
Nor does the measure affect the ability of Cuban-Americans to travel freely to the island and send money to relatives there, or a broad array of rules the Obama administration put in place aimed at making it easier for American companies to do business in Cuba."

Also, the one Cuban you motioned is the leader of the major opposition group, not some minor figure:

"But some Cuban dissidents who had backed Mr. Obama’s thaw in the hopes it would lead to greater openness on the island said the opposite had occurred. Among them was José Daniel Ferrer García, head of the Cuban Patriotic Union, the largest opposition group in Cuba, who was among the dissidents Mr. Obama met last year in Cuba.
“We believe that this is the moment for a maximum reversal of some policies that only benefit the Castro regime and does very little or nothing for the oppressed people,” Mr. Ferrer wrote in an open letter to Mr. Trump last week. “It is time to impose strong sanctions on the regime of Raúl Castro.”

In the end, Cuban Americans still have a lot of power here and their voice is more important since it effects them and their compatriots and relatives still living in Cuba. the most.  While the polls may indicate support for loosening, those people aren't Cuban or have as deep a concern for Cuba as Cuban Americans. 
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3729 on: June 19, 2017, 12:54:28 PM »

The following was extracted from the NY Times article:

"Still, Mr. Trump’s action allowed him to claim credit for taking a tough stand while leaving in place many of the changes made by Mr. Obama, which polls have shown are broadly supported, including by most Republicans.
Under the directive, embassies in Washington and Havana will stay open and cruises and direct flights between the United States and Cuba will be protected under an exception from the prohibition on transactions with military-controlled entities.
Nor does the measure affect the ability of Cuban-Americans to travel freely to the island and send money to relatives there, or a broad array of rules the Obama administration put in place aimed at making it easier for American companies to do business in Cuba."

Also, the one Cuban you motioned is the leader of the major opposition group, not some minor figure:

"But some Cuban dissidents who had backed Mr. Obama’s thaw in the hopes it would lead to greater openness on the island said the opposite had occurred. Among them was José Daniel Ferrer García, head of the Cuban Patriotic Union, the largest opposition group in Cuba, who was among the dissidents Mr. Obama met last year in Cuba.
“We believe that this is the moment for a maximum reversal of some policies that only benefit the Castro regime and does very little or nothing for the oppressed people,” Mr. Ferrer wrote in an open letter to Mr. Trump last week. “It is time to impose strong sanctions on the regime of Raúl Castro.”

In the end, Cuban Americans still have a lot of power here and their voice is more important since it effects them and their compatriots and relatives still living in Cuba. the most.  While the polls may indicate support for loosening, those people aren't Cuban or have as deep a concern for Cuba as Cuban Americans.

Your first paragraph quoted does not support your original statement that Castro was making out a lot more then us.  It merely reflects the political points gained by Trump amongst his base and what policies are remaining in place here, in the USA, nothing more.  It has absolutely no concern with policy being implemented on the island. 

Your second paragraph is the one I was referring to and does not present any evidence what so ever to back up the claim.  It is nothing more then an emotional plea for support of his side. 

Additionally, what would you expect from any opponent in any system of governance?  For them to suddenly agree with whom they are against? 

Last, they very fact that Cuban-Americans are so close to this issue on an emotional level is the exact reason why they should not be making policy on the subject.  Their emotions are greatly clouding their logic.  If I was wrong here, they would be recognizing the great good the influx of dollars is having on the private economy there and implement policy that would choke it off. 

The fact remains, the free market is seeing a renaissance in Cuba for the first time in 54 years.  Choking off American tourist dollars is going to do nothing but decrease the free market share of Cuban GDP, increase communism and give the regime a reason for doing so, just like they have been with the past 54 years of this failed policy. 

If the Cubans, and Americans, really wanted a free Cuba, perhaps they should have voted for Nixon the first time around instead of JFK, who completely botched the Bay of Pigs and any other future relations. 

It's time to move past JFK's failed policy. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 01:00:07 PM by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3730 on: June 19, 2017, 12:59:46 PM »

What changed in Cuban governance since Obama changed the policy?  Nothing.  They're no more freer.
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3731 on: June 19, 2017, 01:15:04 PM »

What changed in Cuban governance since Obama changed the policy?  Nothing.  They're no more freer.

Yes, they are!  They may not be free politically, but economically, they are becoming much more free, which is always the first thing to happen! 

Even in this country, every minority group, except for the Irish and another group, sought economic independence first and then gained political influence second.  The Irish, although did gain political influence initially, spent generations trying to gain economic stability through politics.  It was not until they stopped looking at politics as a way to become economically independent and started to look at other means, that they finally gained economic independence.  The other group (whom I will not identify for a few reasons) is, unfortunately, mirroring most of the mistakes of the Irish. 

Same thing is happening in Cuba.  Economic freedom is starting, and as soon as the private market becomes strong enough, it will have the end result of breaking the regime. 

They are free to start their own businesses and make money outside of the state's economy.  Like I said, as someone who has been there, your vision of what Cuba is, is wrong. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 04:19:37 PM by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3732 on: June 19, 2017, 01:32:49 PM »

What changed in Cuban governance since Obama changed the policy?  Nothing.  They're no more freer.

I think this site contradicts your premise, and it also provide evidence of such. 

https://www.engagecuba.org/cubas-private-sector/
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3733 on: June 19, 2017, 03:21:10 PM »

The only difference between North Korea and Cuba is that Cuba is warm and has nice beaches.

And you, having apparently visited neither, are the authority on this?

“Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance…”
― H.L. Mencken, Notes on Democracy
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3734 on: June 19, 2017, 03:47:05 PM »

I think this site contradicts your premise, and it also provide evidence of such. 

https://www.engagecuba.org/cubas-private-sector/
Many changes made by Castro predates Obama's policy changes.   The Cuban economy is a disaster.  They know they have to change economic policies.  If they want to improve it even more,  let them provide additional freedoms before we give them more carrots.   Also,  let them return Chesimard to us who killed a number of state troopers from New Jersey where live.   Although I'm not Cuban,  I have as axe to grind also.  Castro is protecting her, a murderer.
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1636
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3735 on: June 19, 2017, 04:04:48 PM »

Many changes made by Castro predates Obama's policy changes.   The Cuban economy is a disaster.  They know they have to change economic policies.  If they want to improve it even more,  let them provide additional freedoms before we give them more carrots.   Also,  let them return Chesimard to us who killed a number of state troopers from New Jersey where live.   Although I'm not Cuban,  I have as axe to grind also.  Castro is protecting her, a murderer.

Don't be foolish Alan. 

Are you seriously suggesting that Raul, the devout communist, the one who convinced Fidel to implement communism and socialize the whole economy, just came up with his reforms on his own?  That he suddenly had a change in heart? 

Also you seriously suggesting that talks between him and Obama did not occur long before the 2014 thawing and that maybe Obama was an influence on Raul's reforms?  And that maybe, due to negotiations, Obama could not claim part of them. 

The Cuban state economy is a disaster, but there is a free market revolution starting.  It's really sad to see so many fanboys ready to piss that away just because Trump says so.  I may have been for Trump over HRC due to fiscal concerns and over regulations, but I will not idly approve of all his policies, especially when they lack all reason and evidence of working. 

I am glad to see republicans voice their opposition to this foolish policy that has a 54 year track record of failure. 

Insofar as Chesimard, you really need to learn to cut your losses at a certain point.  Move on, get over it, and you're a New Yorker that now lives in NJ. 

And by the way, you have provided nothing but ideas that, on top of this, have 54 years of proof against them working.  My side of the argument has proof of our ideas working and improving the Cuban economy. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 04:28:55 PM by JoeKitchen »
Logged
Joe Kitchen
www.josephmkitchen.com

"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

scyth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 612
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3736 on: June 19, 2017, 04:23:50 PM »

Many changes made by Castro predates Obama's policy changes.   The Cuban economy is a disaster.  They know they have to change economic policies.  If they want to improve it even more,  let them provide additional freedoms before we give them more carrots.   Also,  let them return Chesimard to us who killed a number of state troopers from New Jersey where live.   Although I'm not Cuban,  I have as axe to grind also.  Castro is protecting her, a murderer.

a citizen of country that was shielding Brazinskas' is righteously whining about Chesimard ? hilarious !
Logged

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2540
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3737 on: June 19, 2017, 05:12:56 PM »

Joe, he's keeping his campaign promise regarding Cuba.  That small group helped him win Florida and the election. 
Not really, Trump overwhelmingly won the Panhandle area in Florida.  The anti=Castro votes in the Miami area are really rather small these days.  ONe of the big anti-Castro members of Congress, Ros-Lehtinen is retiring as her district is now swinging to the Dems and she voted against the Republican healthcare bill.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3738 on: June 19, 2017, 05:56:20 PM »

Don't be foolish Alan. 

Are you seriously suggesting that Raul, the devout communist, the one who convinced Fidel to implement communism and socialize the whole economy, just came up with his reforms on his own?  That he suddenly had a change in heart? 

Also you seriously suggesting that talks between him and Obama did not occur long before the 2014 thawing and that maybe Obama was an influence on Raul's reforms?  And that maybe, due to negotiations, Obama could not claim part of them. 

The Cuban state economy is a disaster, but there is a free market revolution starting.  It's really sad to see so many fanboys ready to piss that away just because Trump says so.  I may have been for Trump over HRC due to fiscal concerns and over regulations, but I will not idly approve of all his policies, especially when they lack all reason and evidence of working. 

I am glad to see republicans voice their opposition to this foolish policy that has a 54 year track record of failure. 

Insofar as Chesimard, you really need to learn to cut your losses at a certain point.  Move on, get over it, and you're a New Yorker that now lives in NJ. 

And by the way, you have provided nothing but ideas that, on top of this, have 54 years of proof against them working.  My side of the argument has proof of our ideas working and improving the Cuban economy. 
Yes I'm a New Yorker that moved to NJ 4 years ago.  But as a New Yorker living miles from the killing and with Chesimard very much in  the news at the time, it put all people in the NY Metro area with a lot of hate for her.  She held up banks in the Bronx where I grew up.  She and her Black Liberation Party terrorist cohorts held up banks in Queens where I lived for over 40 years.  She also attacked NYPD police with a hand grenade two miles from my home in Queens, NYC.  You're very nonchalant about it which isn't right.   

I have no idea what you mean when you say cut my loses.  What does that even mean?  I'm not losing anything when the President is tough on the Communist Cuban regime that protected Chesimard.  So you're saying screw the families of the cops, who cares that this women killed them that she escaped from jail 35 years ago?    She has a $1 million reward on her head from the FBI.  She was sentenced to life in prison and escaped to Cuba where Fidel gave her political asylum. If Raul wants us to help economically, let them return her. 
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/joanne-deborah-chesimard
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2683
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #3739 on: June 19, 2017, 06:10:50 PM »

a citizen of country that was shielding Brazinskas' is righteously whining about Chesimard ? hilarious !
The US should have returned him to Russia.  At least there's poetic justice.  His son who helped him hijack the plane, shot and killed him years later in an argument. 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 185 186 [187] 188 189 ... 230   Go Up