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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 916856 times)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2017, 08:47:57 am »

You can vote him out of office in 2020 if you're not happy with him.  In the meanwhile he has the power of the Presidency, is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces and Chief Executive of the US Government for four years just like Obama and every other President before him.  His mandate and power come from the US Constitution not from how many people voted for him.
I have never denied that real fact (I don't live in a realm of alternative facts).  However, I also have the right to peacefully RESIST and and all off what I deem to be egregious regarding what this administration wants to do.  I'm enjoying a good bit of Schadenfreude right now as the Republicans including the President realize they cannot easily repeal and replace Obama care.  The latest Pew Poll says 60% of American believe that government should provide health coverage:  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/13/more-americans-say-government-should-ensure-health-care-coverage/?utm_content=buffer664a5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2017, 08:50:46 am »

You deliberately ignore that we are a Federal republic made up of 50 separate sovereign states that have their own governments.  Each State wants to be recognized that they are just as legitimate as any other regardless of geographic size or population. 
  I never ignored this fact at all.  I just pointed, factually, that under the EC, each state is not equally represented in terms of "one person, one vote."  You cannot argue against mathmatics.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2017, 08:56:37 am »

Fortunately, someone has already crunched the numbers for us to see:

http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/13319/who-would-have-won-the-presidency-if-all-states-electors-were-allocated-proport


There were a bunch of similar analyses by others as well.  Unfortunately, Trump would have probably won the election under all the scenarios as no candidate would win a majority of EC votes and the House of Representatives would have decided the election.  Each state gets one vote on behalf of their delegation and since most of the state delegations have Republican majorities it's likely Trump would win.
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2017, 09:43:36 am »

What is any verbal offer worth, especially from DJT?

Judging from some of his business practices, even a written agreement from Trump has dubious value.

http://fortune.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-stiff-contractors/
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2017, 09:44:16 am »

What is any verbal offer worth, especially from DJT? He's mostly shooting from the lip, just to be unpredictable (at best), or indifferent about the consequences for others (more likely).

His advances to Russia (e.g. suggestions to lift the sanctions against Russia for invading Crimea) have most likely already caused people getting killed at the Ukrainian border when Putin was testing the reactions from the Trump administration. It may also have to do with that DJT chose to no longer get daily briefings from the security organizations.

This is not a game of who is right or who is wrong, this is really serious (geo-political) stuff. Not something a sane person would leave up to someone in charge with the mental issues that professionals in the field of psychology ascribe to him, based on the symptoms he is showing.

Cheers,
Bart

It's interesting that people who are say Trump is unhinged for calling a US Federal judge a "so-called judge" have no problem when they insult him as President of the US.  Where's your respect for the Office of the Presidency?  But his supporters understand what's going on in trying to delegitimize him.  Instead of name calling, why don't you figure out how you're going to reverse who's in charge in the White House in four years.  Calling him names didn't work in the last one.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2017, 10:04:11 am »

I have never denied that real fact (I don't live in a realm of alternative facts).  However, I also have the right to peacefully RESIST and and all off what I deem to be egregious regarding what this administration wants to do.  I'm enjoying a good bit of Schadenfreude right now as the Republicans including the President realize they cannot easily repeal and replace Obama care.  The latest Pew Poll says 60% of American believe that government should provide health coverage:  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/13/more-americans-say-government-should-ensure-health-care-coverage/?utm_content=buffer664a5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Trump said before the election that he would not walk over someone who fell ill on the street in front of him when referring to health care.   Cruz was right when he called him a New York liberal.  Many conservative Republicans in Congress are concerned that he eventually will only settle on some form of universal health care.  That he'll push Keysian spending, lower taxes and increase military spending and ignore deficits and increase the debt, definitely anathema to conservative republicans.  They're also concerned about trade issues that are throwbacks to the past.  His daughter Ivanka has lots of socially liberal friends and supports the LGBT movement.   He's already stated that America gets into too many wars; he seems more interested in growing the economy than foreign adventures. 

I think there's a knee-jerk reaction to Trump.  If Liberals would just slow down and give him a chance, I think they're going to be surprised just how many of Trump policies will line up with their own.  Not all, but many.  He's really a middle-of-the-road politician who cares about people if you hear past his gruff demeanor as a tough New Yorker and real estate developer who talks like he's on a construction site. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2017, 10:22:36 am »

Damn us Aussies for having a parliamentary, multi-state, federation which provides for each state to be represented equally regardless of size or population in the upper house (Senate).  Damn us to hell for using a form of government that Alan has declared can't work.



If I understand correctly, your 6 states have equal representation in the upper house regardless of population.   I guess my question is how would the US have set up a Parliamentary system while still giving less populated states more representation than the larger states?

Phil:  This is a part I don't understand.  Can you explain how your leader becomes the Prime Minister

Rob C

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #87 on: February 07, 2017, 10:28:34 am »

I sort of think that a problem with the USA, as well as with "Europe", is one of size: both are too damned large and cover too many sorts of communities to be able to create any semblance of level playing fields.

How do you balance the citizens' rights, standards of living and so forth (with associated aspirations) when one massive area farms, another is industrial and yet another far more involved in finance and administration?

Even in tiny Britain we have great distortions of earning potential with the result that the south tops the league. With a sort of leveller, I suppose, being the fact that the prosperous south is far more expensive a place in which to live. Hence, inflated salaries just to enable some people to survive there, the only possible pay-back being when they are truly old and have to retire, at which time, have they been earning highly enough to buy, their home will sell for far more than a similar one costs elsewhere, leaving them cash-rich and able to live a less stressed life in the sticks.

Which, of course, leads to the very common situation where young people "in the sticks" will often be unable to compete with the incomers and thus be unable to buy within their own rural community, either. It's widespread in Scotland, Wales, Devon and Cornwall; here in Mallorca I've had conversations with local tradesmen, working in the house for us, who explained that one "benefit" of tourism (and our being here to give them work!) is that they can no longer afford to leave the parental home. Some years ago farmers were desperate to sell their farms to foreigners for what they imagined to be astronomical prices, not realising that as prices rise, so will they never again be able to buy back into the land they once owned and thought of so little worth. I hope they don't repeat the same mistakes in Cuba.

In Sardinia's north-east there sits the physically beautiful seaside paradise of the Costa Smeralda. It used to be a barren land, but blessed by nature with what was able to be turned into a relatively deep yacht haven at Porto Cervo. The Aga Khan bought a massive swathe of this coastline and, armed with very tight planning regulations designed by his Consortium, went on to produce the most spectacular homes - all low - you ever saw. Hotels there are out of this world - the Pitrizza and Cala de Volpe are two (we were able to afford to buy some drinks in the latter during a couple of trips; thanks, Mr Client!) - and the actual coastline has rocks reminiscent of the Seychelles.

But you might not know that this development turned out to be a spectacular and unexpected blow on behalf of women's rights. Now, this may perhaps be apocryphal, but I'm informed that before the Khan came sailing in, the coastline was considered to be of minimal worth, and 'twas the daughters of rural families who were bequeathed it, their brothers getting the better, and more valuable grazing lands futher away from the sand, sea and salty air. Yes! So maybe there is divine justice and God could well be a she. I think I'd rather like that.

I also kinda like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e92xQpoXic

Sweet rock?

Rob
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 10:36:11 am by Rob C »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2017, 10:41:28 am »

Judging from some of his business practices, even a written agreement from Trump has dubious value.

http://fortune.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-stiff-contractors/

It was Mayer from Metro Goldwyn Mayer MGM Studio fame who famously said, "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on."

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2017, 10:45:10 am »

It's interesting that people who are say Trump is unhinged for calling a US Federal judge a "so-called judge" have no problem when they insult him as President of the US.  Where's your respect for the Office of the Presidency?

Respect has to be earned. Only sheeple take it for granted unless it's a cultural trait.

And yes, him calling a federal judge a "so-called-judge", only because some does their job and they doesn't blindly agree with the President, is totally consistent with the mental issues mentioned. As a president he can fire employees, but it is unjustified if done for the wrong reasons.

As for delegitimizing him (and with him the Republican party that elected him as their candidate), he's doing a good enough job himself, no help needed. If only people would wake up from their state of denial and return to reality, rather sooner than later, it could keep the number of innocent casualties more limited.
 
Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 11:39:21 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2017, 10:55:26 am »

I sort of think that a problem with the USA, as well as with "Europe", is one of size: both are too damned large and cover too many sorts of communities to be able to create any semblance of level playing fields.

How do you balance the citizens' rights, standards of living and so forth (with associated aspirations) when one massive area farms, another is industrial and yet another far more involved in finance and administration?...

You make a good point.  Certainly in America thee are more and less wealthy areas and varying chance of good opportunity.  But nothing is stopping people from moving to NYC to get a chance at making it "big".  Millions do move.  Americans move constantly to "find their place in the sun."    Also, there's another factor in America that is different than in Great Britain.  The latter has a history of social class that often limits the growth of individuals.  People there ask what your father does.  In America we ask what you do.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #91 on: February 07, 2017, 11:04:11 am »

You make a good point.  Certainly in America thee are more and less wealthy areas and varying chance of good opportunity.  But nothing is stopping people from moving to NYC to get a chance at making it "big".  Millions do move.  Americans move constantly to "find their place in the sun."    Also, there's another factor in America that is different than in Great Britain.  The latter has a history of social class that often limits the growth of individuals.  People there ask what your father does.  In America we ask what you do.

A bit of a silly caricature, isn't this?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2017, 11:11:43 am »

Respect has to be earned. Only sheeple take it for granted unless it's a cultural trait.

And yes, him calling a federal judge a "so-called-judge", only because she does her job and she doesn't blindly agree with the President, is totally consistent with the mental issues mentioned. As a president he can fire her, but it is unjustified if done for the wrong reasons.

As for delegitimizing him, he's doing a good enough job himself, no help needed. If only people would wake up from their state of denial and return to reality, rather sooner than later, it could keep the number of innocent casualties more limited.
 
Cheers,
Bart

Bart,    A President cannot "fire" a Federal Judge who's appointed for life.  Only Congress gets to do that by impeachment (indictment) by the House of Representatives and a two-third vote of the Senate; a very large barrier.  Maybe you should hold your fire and learn something about my America before insulting our President.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #93 on: February 07, 2017, 11:15:14 am »

A bit of a silly caricature, isn't this?

If it's not true, than I apologize. 

Raul_82

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #94 on: February 07, 2017, 11:25:43 am »

What is any verbal offer worth, especially from DJT? He's mostly shooting from the lip, just to be unpredictable (at best), or indifferent about the consequences for others (more likely).

His advances to Russia (e.g. suggestions to lift the sanctions against Russia for invading Crimea) have most likely already caused people getting killed at the Ukrainian border when Putin was testing the reactions from the Trump administration. It may also have to do with that DJT chose to no longer get daily briefings from the security organizations.

This is not a game of who is right or who is wrong, this is really serious (geo-political) stuff. Not something a sane person would leave up to someone in charge with the mental issues that professionals in the field of psychology ascribe to him, based on the symptoms he is showing.

Cheers,
Bart

This is key. Putin has had the upper hand ever since he started manipulating the US election, and who knows if the rumors of him having damaging info on Trump is true or not. Meanwhile all Trump does is praise his leadership and "though hand" of this almost-dictator guy, in full younger brother admiration mode, with only veiled critics to his actions.
Most likely at the end of the first term, Russia will have claimed back some land over their terrified neighbors.

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Raul_82

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2017, 11:33:20 am »

It's interesting that people who are say Trump is unhinged for calling a US Federal judge a "so-called judge" have no problem when they insult him as President of the US.  Where's your respect for the Office of the Presidency?  But his supporters understand what's going on in trying to delegitimize him.  Instead of name calling, why don't you figure out how you're going to reverse who's in charge in the White House in four years.  Calling him names didn't work in the last one.

It is he who shows contempt, threats and disrespects everyone who oppose him. If you show yourself belligerent all the time, you can expect a proportional response, whoever you are.
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mecrox

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #96 on: February 07, 2017, 11:40:35 am »

You make a good point.  Certainly in America thee are more and less wealthy areas and varying chance of good opportunity.  But nothing is stopping people from moving to NYC to get a chance at making it "big".  Millions do move.  Americans move constantly to "find their place in the sun."    Also, there's another factor in America that is different than in Great Britain.  The latter has a history of social class that often limits the growth of individuals.  People there ask what your father does.  In America we ask what you do.

That was certainly true of Britain at one time but I suspect it has vanished, thank heavens, over the past 50 years or so. I never come across that old class system nonsense now though perhaps it continues in a few tattered corners of ye olde aristocracy. The real divide now, and this feeds into your earlier point about diversity, is education. It's a great worry, imho, and encourages the idea of elites (who are better educated) vs the rest. Poor education standards reduce life chances, reduce a nation's ability to compete in the world and become potentially very destabilizing to democracy itself if a country ends up with a mass of people who are trapped by low skills and express that in the form of anger and demagoguery, etc. Much better education incorporating proper skills in engineering, IT or whatever needs to be a #1 priority, imho.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #97 on: February 07, 2017, 11:41:29 am »

Bart,    A President cannot "fire" a Federal Judge who's appointed for life.  Only Congress gets to do that by impeachment (indictment) by the House of Representatives and a two-third vote of the Senate; a very large barrier.  Maybe you should hold your fire and learn something about my America before insulting our President.
I'm rapidly tiring of this whole thread so I'll make some final points here.  Alan, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.  I have just one question, do you think all these statements to the press and tweets are normal behavior for any person, not to mention someone who is the President of the US?  Secondly, yes as you note we should all wait ans see what the administration accomplishes but the nominees to several key cabinet positions are highly dubious (Education, EPA, HUD, Justice). In addition, some of the Executive Orders and other statements indicate that some of the environmental and financial regulations will be overturned for very dubious reasons.

As I have already noted, I do acknowledge that he is the President but unlike previous Republican Presidents, I have zero respect for him.  I still believe that he will be gone within 12-18 months because of issues that arise with his business.  At some point his tax returns will be released and we will know about entanglements with foreign banks.  He is already seeing Ivanka's business going down the drain and Melania's hope to build a business off the Trump brand also going up in smoke.  There will be pressure to force the Trump Organization to pay for Secret Service protection covering his son's foreign business trips (the recent Uruguay trip by Eric cost American taxpayers $100K; do you think American taxpayers should be on the hook for Trump Organization business expenses?)
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #98 on: February 07, 2017, 11:49:27 am »

Bart,    A President cannot "fire" a Federal Judge who's appointed for life.  Only Congress gets to do that by impeachment (indictment) by the House of Representatives and a two-third vote of the Senate; a very large barrier.

Correct, my mistake.  I confused the Federal Judge with acting attorney general, Sally Yates, too many people negatively affected to keep track of ... And then having to separate Alternative facts from reality, what a mess.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 12:40:26 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #99 on: February 07, 2017, 11:56:57 am »

Clean out the swamp? : removing protection

How does this protect some machinist in Wisconsin?
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