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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 915355 times)

texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6260 on: September 20, 2017, 01:15:01 am »

Speaking of the city of romance. . .

The Eiffel Tower gets a bulletproof perimeter glass wall to combat terrorism.

Kudos to the Left for social progress! Think of the scores of squeegee jobs created.

https://www.rt.com/news/403779-eiffel-tower-bulletproof-wall/
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 01:18:30 am by texshooter »
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6261 on: September 20, 2017, 01:35:31 am »

You and most others had been laughing at his assertion for over 6 months.

I'm still laughing...he pulled a tweet out of his ass because he was pissed that Jeff Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation and got all revved up by wingnut Mark Levin and out popped Trump's wild claim. And Trump and the right (alt-right) have jumped on every little crumb as proof that Obama tapped Trump's phones...but sadly, Trump and his supporters remain disappointed.

Again, in case you forgot what Trump tweeted...

Quote
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!
6:35 AM - Mar 4, 2017

and

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Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!
6:49 AM - Mar 4, 2017

and

Quote
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!
6:52 AM - Mar 4, 2017

and

Quote
Donald J. Trump  ✔ @realDonaldTrump
How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
7:02 AM - Mar 4, 2017


So, explain to me how the fact that Paul Manafort was under surveillance because of a FISA warrant proves Trump's claims?

Right Wing Revives Claim That Trump’s Obama Wiretap Accusation Has Been “Vindicated.” (It Hasn’t.)

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On Monday, CNN reported that Paul Manafort—who was briefly Trump's campaign chairman—has been the subject of intermittent court-approved surveillance since 2014. As you can see above, Breitbart immediately announced that the news "vindicated" Trump. Nope. Here's what CNN wrote:

Manafort was initially being surveilled not because of his connection to Trump but because of an investigation opened in 2014 into his work as a political consultant in Ukraine.

He was subsequently placed under surveillance again "last fall" because of his connections to "suspected Russian operatives," but it's "unclear" exactly when that happened—which is to say that it's not certain whether it happened before or after the election.

The investigation was led by the FBI and required the approval of Justice Department officials, i.e., not Obama himself.

Regarding Trump's "nothing found" remark, the investigation into Manafort appears to have in fact escalated; one of his homes was raided in July.

"While Manafort has a residence in Trump Tower, it's unclear whether FBI surveillance of him took place there."

"It's unclear whether Trump himself was picked up on the surveillance."

Tap is still spelled with the traditional single p.


What's particularly funny about the idea that Trump has been vindicated by the revelation of a literal wiretap on Paul Manafort is that the White House and its stooges in the right-wing press spent months earlier this year insisting that Trump's tweets weren't referring to literal wiretapping. Here's Sean Spicer in March:

I think there’s no question that the Obama administration, that there were actions about surveillance and other activities that occurred in the 2016 election. That is a widely reported activity that occurred back then. The President used the word “wiretap” to mean, broadly, surveillance and other activities during that.

At another point, Spicer also argued that Trump's comments about surveillance having taken place "just before" the 2016 election might have also been meant to suggest that surveillance took place well after the election:

If we're splitting hairs on what day of the calendar it was, that's a pretty interesting development. If the allegation is, well it was actually on the 1st of December or the 10th of December versus the 31st of October, I think we're starting to split some serious hairs here.

At the time, Breitbart made a nearly identical argument. You know, I'm really beginning to suspect that these guys are not being 100 percent honest with us all the time.

Sorry Alan, claiming Trump was "right" is really pretty silly.
(entertaining but silly)
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6262 on: September 20, 2017, 01:44:48 am »

This is pretty cool!

Rob Reiner Helps Launch Committee to Investigate Russia



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WASHINGTON — Director Rob Reiner is joining a new group called the Committee to Investigate Russia, to highlight what is known about the Russian threat to interfere with American elections and other institutions.

The committee was scheduled to go live with a website on Tuesday at InvestigateRussia.org, as well as a video featuring Morgan Freeman. Reiner and David Frum of The Atlantic were expected to announce the launch of the group.

The committee’s advisory board members include Reiner; James Clapper, the former director of National Intelligence; Charlie Sykes, the conservative political commentator; Max Boot, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations; and Norman Ornstein, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

In an interview, Reiner said that they are hoping to be a “one-stop shop where people can come and be made aware pop what the breaking news stories are today, the various investigations, what stages they are in, but also to the understand the history, and what the Soviet Union and now Russia has been trying to do for many, many years.” He also said that a goal is to understand “what cyberwarfare is all about.”

And the site is pretty handy to keep track of recent updates to the Russian investigation...


                                                  https://investigaterussia.org
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6263 on: September 20, 2017, 07:35:41 am »

scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6264 on: September 20, 2017, 09:17:59 am »

If they had a FISA warrant

FISA is a pocket tool of executive branch - they rubber stamp everything ...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6265 on: September 20, 2017, 09:55:56 am »

I'm still laughing...he pulled a tweet out of his ass because he was pissed that Jeff Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation and got all revved up by wingnut Mark Levin and out popped Trump's wild claim. And Trump and the right (alt-right) have jumped on every little crumb as proof that Obama tapped Trump's phones...but sadly, Trump and his supporters remain disappointed.

...


So, explain to me how the fact that Paul Manafort was under surveillance because of a FISA warrant proves Trump's claims?


So first we found out Flynn was being tapped and Rice and Obama got all the transcripts of the telephone conversations.  Now we find out that Manafort was tapped.  It's not yet clear where those transcripts went.  So at least two of the opposition party's president's main campaign people were tapped.   Who else will we find out was tapped?

Gee, I wonder if they tapped my phone too? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6266 on: September 20, 2017, 10:01:42 am »

FISA is a pocket tool of executive branch - they rubber stamp everything ...
I agree.  The whole FISA setup is dangerous for American democracy.  The executive branch, either party who's in power, can use it against their opposition or just regular citizens who aren't on their side.  I keep feeling like we're living with a KGB.  Sure, I understand we need something to defend ourselves against foreigners who want to do us harm.  But, like what happen with the IRS in the previous election under Obama, the power of the government can be dangerously used in domestic political affairs.

Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6267 on: September 20, 2017, 10:25:16 am »

With Trump's paranoia, I wonder who he is wiretapping?
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6268 on: September 20, 2017, 10:34:00 am »

With Trump's paranoia, I wonder who he is wiretapping?
I agree, with Trump's shady character the chance of abuse is much higher.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6269 on: September 20, 2017, 12:34:33 pm »

So first we found out Flynn was being tapped and Rice and Obama got all the transcripts of the telephone conversations.

To be clear, Flynn's phone wasn't tapped it was the Russian he was talking to (which he failed to report and lied about) whose phone was tapped. He got scooped up as incidental contact. The reason he was unmasked was because of legitimate national security conserns. Flynn was not then under surveillance (prolly is now)

The only other person related to Trump that subject to a FISA warrent was the idiot Carter Page because he was trying to be recruited by known Russian agents. The reason I called him an idiot was that's what the Russians called him.

None of which supports Trump's silly claim that Obama had his phones tapped...
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6270 on: September 20, 2017, 01:35:21 pm »

I agree, with Trump's shady character the chance of abuse is much higher.
Trump can't keep his mouth shut - so  w/ Trump you have a greater chance to hear = less chance to clamp the abuse ... vs magic negro president not to mention WMD war criminal W
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6271 on: September 20, 2017, 01:36:05 pm »

I agree.  The whole FISA setup is dangerous for American democracy.  The executive branch, either party who's in power, can use it against their opposition or just regular citizens who aren't on their side.  I keep feeling like we're living with a KGB.  Sure, I understand we need something to defend ourselves against foreigners who want to do us harm.  But, like what happen with the IRS in the previous election under Obama, the power of the government can be dangerously used in domestic political affairs.
Do you realize that the Chief Justice of the US, John Roberts, appoints the members of the FISA court?  Hardly a bastion of liberal thinking!!!
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scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6272 on: September 20, 2017, 01:37:39 pm »

I keep feeling like we're living with a KGB. 

nope... w/ KGB everybody (alive) were aware about the rules of the game - here in the land of free 99% are unsuspecting idiots  ;D

if we are to believe published (fake news) FISA statistics executive branch is spotless in their work... always 0% rejections (may once or twice not) - that alone shows how stupid alt-left dudes here are to be happy about FISA warrants toward manafort, etc ... but what can you expect from them ? brain-washed liberals
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 01:46:06 pm by scyth »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6273 on: September 20, 2017, 02:24:39 pm »

May I kindly suggest to tone down the rhetoric of “stupid, idiots, brain-washed” etc. It is as productive and beneficial for a reasonable debate as calling the other side racists, bigots, and deplorables. We are all here reasonably intelligent and educated people, just with different value systems and opinions.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 09:42:48 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6274 on: September 20, 2017, 03:32:07 pm »


I suppose one can be a little bit of each.

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texshooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6275 on: September 20, 2017, 04:38:22 pm »



If putting America first is "evil,"  then so is putting America last.

Team America First



Team America Last
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6276 on: September 20, 2017, 06:16:23 pm »

To be clear, Flynn's phone wasn't tapped it was the Russian he was talking to (which he failed to report and lied about) whose phone was tapped. He got scooped up as incidental contact. The reason he was unmasked was because of legitimate national security conserns. Flynn was not then under surveillance (prolly is now)

The only other person related to Trump that subject to a FISA warrent was the idiot Carter Page because he was trying to be recruited by known Russian agents. The reason I called him an idiot was that's what the Russians called him.

None of which supports Trump's silly claim that Obama had his phones tapped...

This may be the 3rd or 4th time in this thread that you've pointed out that it wasn't Trump's phone that was tapped. But each time, a few posts later, Alan restates the assertion.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6277 on: September 20, 2017, 06:40:32 pm »

... it wasn't Trump's phone that was tapped...

...  every phone conversation has (as a minimum) two ends, so same difference.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6278 on: September 20, 2017, 06:43:48 pm »

This may be the 3rd or 4th time in this thread that you've pointed out that it wasn't Trump's phone that was tapped. But each time, a few posts later, Alan restates the assertion.

Yeah, I know...at some point I may give up, but I just can't let stuff like that go. One of the reasons Trump pisses me off so much is because he's a pathological liar and his supporters seem to swallow his lies hook, line and sinker.

Which is one of the problems trying to communicate with Trump supporter, agreement on a common set of facts and reality is nearly impossible.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #6279 on: September 20, 2017, 06:48:33 pm »

...  every phone conversation has (as a minimum) two ends, so same difference.

Only if the wrong number was dialed ...

Cheers,
Bart
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