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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 917106 times)

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5060 on: August 15, 2017, 08:27:40 pm »



TRUMP DEFENDS WHITE SUPREMACISTS

Quote
President Donald Trump defended the group of white supremacists who marched on Charlottesville, Virginia, last weekend, telling reporters they were largely justified and being unfairly vilified by the media. The protests ended Saturday when one of the white supremacists drove his car into a crowd of people, killing one woman and injuring 19 others.

“What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and it was horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch,” he said at a Tuesday press conference in New York. “But there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want but that’s the way it is.”

The press conference, which took place in the gold-plated lobby of Trump Tower, was to focus on infrastructure. But Trump quickly veered off-script into defending the white supremacists, pointing out that they had a permit to “innocently” protest, while the people who came to protest against them did not.

“The night before people innocently protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee,” Trump said, in reference to the group of white supremacists who spent the evening carrying torches, shouting Nazi slogans, and delivering Nazi salutes. “You had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group on the other side that came charging in — without a permit — and they were very, very violent.”

Maybe Trump hasn't seen the the nicely edited video that Vice News did...
Charlottesville: Race and Terror – VICE News Tonight on HBO
"VICE News Tonight" correspondent Elle Reeve went behind the scenes with...



My, those "Unite the Right" rally members had their chants down pat, didn't they?

"You will not replace us!"
"Jews will not replace us!"
"Blood and soil!"
"Whose streets? Our Streets!"
"White lives matter!"

Quote
TRUMP: Excuse me. You had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group, excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park, from Robert E. Lee to another name.

There were some very fine folks in that "Unite the Right" rally or so says Trump.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5061 on: August 15, 2017, 08:36:47 pm »


Quote
David Duke @DrDavidDuke

Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/897554574663442432

3:45 PM - Aug 15, 2017
 2,379 2,379 Replies    2,369 2,369 Retweets    1,447 1,447 likes

When David Duke thanks you, you screwed up "bigly" Donald...
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5062 on: August 15, 2017, 08:56:24 pm »

NBC had a camera trained on WH Chief of Staff John Kelly during some of Trump's "news conference/train wreck" today...



WATCH: White House chief of staff John Kelly reacts to President Trump's latest remarks on violence in Charlottesville, Virginia.

He has an inscrutable face and gave away little, but the wheels were turning...and some emotion escaped.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5063 on: August 15, 2017, 09:01:14 pm »

In case you didn't see it...

Read the transcript of Donald Trump's jaw-dropping press conference

It doesn't read any better than it sounded live...it's actually worse in print.

-------------

Here's a link to the entire press conference from NBC...
President Trump's Press Conference Discussing Race and Charlottesville Violence (Full Video)
17:02
Edited to add video link.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 09:56:49 pm by Schewe »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5064 on: August 15, 2017, 11:45:28 pm »

I'm interested. Please explain how organizing a protest is illegal in the USA?

Well, according to Trump they failed miserably. Just look at the description by Trump of the crowds that somehow managed to get through ...

Anyway, it is not about being successful or not, it's about illegal(?) organizing, no? What does your First Amendment have to say about it?

Are you suggesting that violence was planned to prevent the masses from getting in? Did fights break out? What did the police do? Any police records available that show links to the organizers of the protest? Any court cases recorded that clearly implicate the organizers of the protest (one of several)?

What was criminal? What is the basis for the request for the personal details of website visitors? What's supposed to be done with the information?

Cheers,
Bart
Protests aren't illegal.  Illegally blocking others from protesting legally is, well, illegal.  The web site didn't just advocate protest.  They appear to have advocated illegal protest.  That's criminal if they did so.  While I didn't see the papers presented to the court, the court apparently felt there was enough evidence of apparent illegal activities that the judge granted a subpoena to the website to furnish information to investigators.  That "search warrant" process is constitutional and therefore legal.  The search and evidence gathered will help investigators determined which laws were broken, if any, and who the perpetrators were.  Assuming the evidence makes it appear that a crime was committed, it will be brought before a Grand Jury made up of citizens who will vote.  If they determine a crime was committed, than charges will be filed and a trial will be held to determine guilty or non-guilt of the persons charged. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5065 on: August 15, 2017, 11:47:44 pm »

Add the following clarification to my last post.  That the web site apparently planned and coordinated as well as advocated illegal protest.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5066 on: August 16, 2017, 01:29:45 am »



"Take It Down"

Image by Edel Rodriguez

He's done a variety of images including a cover for Der Spiegel and Time.
Great graphics...
(Trump prolly wouldn't agree).
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5067 on: August 16, 2017, 07:31:58 am »

They're outraged now.

From the outside (out of the USA, I mean) this all looks a little like people who let loose a monster in their midst to buy some votes and are now surprised at the bad outcome. A day late and a dollar short.

The limits of freedom, the limits of government power, these issues are perpetually under debate and modification as culture evolves, but I am pretty sure no one expected or wanted Nazi salutes in the streets to be excused by a sitting president. This is not a good situation.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5068 on: August 16, 2017, 08:53:42 am »

Some thoughts on the subject.
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Robert

mecrox

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5069 on: August 16, 2017, 09:30:08 am »

Some thoughts on the subject.

Interesting ideas there, thank you for posting the link, but I suspect skirting round the central point to emerge from all this: the USA has a huge problem with race which is still unresolved despite the Civil War. The present leadership appears to be stoking this up because their political support depends on it. For example, "Make America Great Again" might have been a patriotic if rather trite slogan thirty years ago but when used today the context is completely different and it's read as "Make America White Again" by the leadership's political base. The leadership knows this, of course, which is why they constantly repeat it (twice today already, in capital letters). My fear is that if this very inflammatory behaviour continues then it will end in serious civil unrest in a country awash with guns.

The smarter foreign governments probably saw this coming long before the inauguration and they can't do much more than repudiate the most egregious claims and stay well clear. There's almost nothing the rest of the world can do beyond hope enough people of courage and conviction within the USA come together to stop the turmoil. I remember being shocked during my visit to Georgia a few years ago at the number of African Americans still living in what looked like shacks in the bush and we know that the stats for poverty and deprivation in some parts of the South are on the level of a newly developing country. The reality is that this will take decades to work out, but the sooner the work is started the sooner it will be done.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 09:50:53 am by mecrox »
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5070 on: August 16, 2017, 09:40:38 am »

In case you didn't see it...

Read the transcript of Donald Trump's jaw-dropping press conference

It doesn't read any better than it sounded live...it's actually worse in print.

-

So Trump does not like corporations that make their products in factories outside the United States. 

Let's just think about that for a moment.   Maybe he means that he does not like other corporations to make their products in foreign factories?

But yeah, the way that man speaks is truly painful to experience. I guess everything on his TV show was scripted.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5071 on: August 16, 2017, 10:09:57 am »

Interesting ideas there, thank you for posting the link, but I suspect skirting round the central point to emerge from all this: the USA has a huge problem with race which is still unresolved despite the Civil War. The present leadership appears to be stoking this up for all its worth because their political support depends on it. For example, "Make America Great Again" might have been a patriotic if rather trite slogan thirty years ago but when used today the context is completely different and it's read as "Make America White Again" by the leadership's political base. The leadership knows this, of course, which is why they constantly repeat it (twice today already, in capital letters). My fear is that if this very inflammatory behaviour continues then it will end in serious civil unrest.

The smarter foreign governments probably saw this coming long before the inauguration and they can't do much more than repudiate the most egregious claims and stay well clear. There's almost nothing the rest of the world can do beyond hope enough people of courage and conviction within the USA come together to halt it. I remember being shocked during my visit to Georgia a few years ago at the number of African Americans still living in what looked like shacks in the bush and we know that the stats for poverty and deprivation in some parts of the South would shame a newly developing country. The reality is that this will take decades to work out, but the sooner the work is started the sooner it will be done.

You've got it backwards.  It's the Democrats and the left that play identity politics for power.  They're the ones who always play the race card, gender card, etc.  Black vs white, rich class vs poor class, male vs female, gay vs straight, etc.  This division politics causes people to take sides for their own identity and protection. Most American don't care about these things.  They just want to be left alone, treated fairly, and allowed to get on with their lives.

Making America Great Again is about making Americans, ALL Americans, great again.  It's about doing away with these artificial separations.  It's about making One country great again and not divided, not being the largest debtor nation in the world but rather being the largest creditor nation in the world as we once was, having countries respect us if not like us, giving everyone equal opportunity to be free and advance,  etc.   

There are huge swaths of America that are poor.  But you only looked at the black poor.  There are a lot of white America poor like that as well.  Both black and white poor were forgotten about by the Democrats and Obama since the 2008 recession.  Trump ran on telling them that he won't forget them.  That he will get them jobs and turn the economy around for them as was for the better healed Americans over the last 8 years.  All those black and white people who lost jobs to foreign countries, and bad trade deals, and the elite Democrats and Republicans who ignored them.  That's why he won. 

The Left and Democrats who keep stoking the ambers of hatred to divide us for their own power are the real un-Americans. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5072 on: August 16, 2017, 10:16:10 am »

... From the outside (out of the USA, I mean) this all looks a little like people who let loose a monster in their midst to buy some votes and are now surprised at the bad outcome....

You mean Obama and BLM and other alt-left violent perennial protesters? I agree 100%.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5073 on: August 16, 2017, 10:22:33 am »

So Trump does not like corporations that make their products in factories outside the United States. 

Let's just think about that for a moment.   Maybe he means that he does not like other corporations to make their products in foreign factories?...

You mean "other than his" corporations? The dissonance/hypocrisy is duly noted. However, it doesn't invalidate the objection. Smoking is wrong for you even if the doctor telling you that smokes, right?

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5074 on: August 16, 2017, 10:23:27 am »

Alt-left? What's that?


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mecrox

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5075 on: August 16, 2017, 10:33:32 am »

You've got it backwards.  It's the Democrats and the left that play identity politics for power.  They're the ones who always play the race card, gender card, etc.  Black vs white, rich class vs poor class, male vs female, gay vs straight, etc.  This division politics causes people to take sides for their own identity and protection. Most American don't care about these things.  They just want to be left alone, treated fairly, and allowed to get on with their lives.

Making America Great Again is about making Americans, ALL Americans, great again.  It's about doing away with these artificial separations.  It's about making One country great again and not divided, not being the largest debtor nation in the world but rather being the largest creditor nation in the world as we once was, having countries respect us if not like us, giving everyone equal opportunity to be free and advance,  etc.   

There are huge swaths of America that are poor.  But you only looked at the black poor.  There are a lot of white America poor like that as well.  Both black and white poor were forgotten about by the Democrats and Obama since the 2008 recession.  Trump ran on telling them that he won't forget them.  That he will get them jobs and turn the economy around for them as was for the better healed Americans over the last 8 years.  All those black and white people who lost jobs to foreign countries, and bad trade deals, and the elite Democrats and Republicans who ignored them.  That's why he won. 

The Left and Democrats who keep stoking the ambers of hatred to divide us for their own power are the real un-Americans.

I was going to add a third paragraph to my post but you have helpfully answered the point for me. The Left is mistaken in concentrating on racial hatred as if they themselves were unaffected by it. In doing so Left is only playing into the leadership's hands because the leadership then cites moral equivalence and cranks up the blame game. The claims of equivalence are utterly spurious, of course, but they enable the turmoil to continue and the leadership's political base to be kept constantly primed. The answer is that the whole country - Left, Right and middle - accepts there is an unresolved problem with racial identity in the United States and starts to heal the wound. Until that happens, the blame game of Democrats vs Republicans will go round and round, nothing will change and the slide towards something very ugly indeed will continue. I agree with what you say about poverty and inequality but that's not the driver here: racial identity is the driver here, in my view at least.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 11:04:22 am by mecrox »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5076 on: August 16, 2017, 10:58:56 am »

The Left and Democrats who keep stoking the ambers of hatred to divide us for their own power are the real un-Americans.

Is it not the President's primary job to unite the nation?
Is he doing so?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5077 on: August 16, 2017, 11:07:08 am »

I was going to add a third paragraph to my post but you have helpfully answered the point for me. The Left is mistaken in concentrating on racial hatred. In doing so Left is only playing into the leadership's hands because the leadership then cites moral equivalence and cranks up the blame game. The claims of equivalence are utterly spurious, of course, but they enable the turmoil to continue and the leadership's political base to be kept constantly primed. The answer is that the whole country - Left, Right and middle - accepts there is an unresolved problem with racial identity in the United States and starts to heal the wound. Until that happens, the blame game of Democrats vs Republicans will continue, nothing will change and the slide towards something very ugly indeed will continue. I agree with what you say about poverty and inequality but that's not the driver here: racial identity is the driver here, in my view at least.

Most Americans have gotten past race.  After all we elected a black president twice.  Most of us thought this would put racial division to bed.  But the left and the Democrats keep race baiting and playing the race card going because of the black vote.  Democrats get 90% of the black vote. So they keep stirring the pot of racial division to keep blacks in their pocket.

Keeping unfair policies like entrance qualifications based on the color of your skin to get into a college adds to the division.  Maybe there was a time a few decades ago when that policy seemed fair.  But that time has gone.  Especially when the economy is lousy, people don't like some getting favored treatment.  That's divisive.  It creates racial tension.  We should stop it but the Supreme Court has lost it's way and still supports it.  If I was a public figure saying these things, I would be condemned by the left liberal media as racist, and lose my job. 

White people are tired of being called racist because they object to unfair policies that don't give them the same opportunity.  Sure there are racists like the KKK and Nazi's.  But Trump doesn't want to lump them with regular white people who are not racist but who feel that their concerns about unfairness are not being addressed.  These are the "good" people he is referring too and not the KKK that the biased-media tries to put words to in his mouth.  He also said their were good people on the left there as well.  I'm sure he didn't mean the anti-protestors who came with bats and started fights but the people who legitimately felt the statue should come down.  But the biased media will continue to twist his words into something negative.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5078 on: August 16, 2017, 11:11:32 am »

Alt-left? What's that?

Good question. Both terms sort of have crept into conversations as of recently, without really being well defined. For me, alt-left would be the violent loonie-left.

Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #5079 on: August 16, 2017, 11:12:14 am »

Is it not the President's primary job to unite the nation?
Is he doing so?

Based on his increasing "disapproval" numbers in the public opinion polls, it appears the answer is yes.
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