Trump II

[Farmer]

That's why I called for sources - I wasn't prepared to do his work for him.

It's a typical tactic to grossly exaggerate something and attribute an incorrect cause or driver to better suit a particular agenda.

Bear in mind that the area has a strong and large Jewish population (hence the synagogue) and that the local council accordingly has numerous Jewish representatives.  Doing the required assessment will almost certainly result in approval being given if they address any concerns raised by the assessment.

[Schewe]

In case you are wondering about some of the image links in a previous post going bad, it seems The Daily Stormer has be taken off line...

GoDaddy Severs Ties With Daily Stormer After Charlottesville Article

GoDaddy Inc., the web hosting company, severed ties with The Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi and white supremacy website, after the site posted an article mocking Heather D. Heyer, the 32-year-old woman who was killed when a man drove into a crowd during a rally of white nationalists in Charlottesville, Va., on Saturday.

Dan C. Race, a GoDaddy spokesman, said in an email on Monday that his company had given the site 24 hours to find another domain provider. “Given The Daily Stormer’s latest article comes on the immediate heels of a violent act, we believe this type of article could incite additional violence, which violates our terms of service,” he said.

Later on Monday he confirmed that the transfer of the domain had been completed.

The Daily Stormer later transferred its domain name to Google, according to reports and a screenshot of the registration posted on Twitter. Shortly after, Google announced that it, too, would distance itself from The Daily Stormer. “We are canceling Daily Stormer’s registration with Google Domains for violating our terms of service,” it said in a statement.

Now if you go to https://www.dailystormer.com/ you get this:



:~)

Let's hope it stays that way...

[Schewe]

If you don't want your face to go viral, stay out of the light...


Peter Cvjetanovic (right) chants while holding torches at a march organized by neo-Nazi, white supremacist and white nationalist organizations in Charlottesville, Va., on Friday night.

On The Internet, Everyone Knows 'You're A Racist': Twitter Account IDs Marchers

They didn't wear hoods as they chanted "Jews will not replace us." They weren't hiding their faces as they waved Confederate flags, racist signs and swastikas. They looked straight at a sea of cameras as they made the Nazi salute.

As Matt Thompson wrote for The Atlantic, the white supremacist march and rally this past weekend wasn't a KKK rally: "It was a pride march."

The bare-faced shamelessness was the point. But it was also an opening.

On the Internet, some people are crowd-sourcing efforts to identify and shame the people participating in the rally. Most prominently, on Twitter, the account called "Yes, You're Racist" has been soliciting help and posting IDs. "I'll make them famous," the account pledged.

Yes, You're Racist @YesYoureRacist
If you recognize any of the Nazis marching in #Charlottesville, send me their names/profiles and I'll make them famous
#GoodNightAltRight
11:43 AM - Aug 12, 2017

So far, at least one protester is no longer employed after being publicly named and shamed.

Cole White, who used to work at a hot dog restaurant in Berkeley, Calif., "voluntarily resigned" on Saturday after his employer confronted him about his participation in the event, according to the Berkeleyside news site.

@YesYoureRacist is not a new Twitter account. Since 2012, the account has been calling out "casual racism on Twitter," according to the user's fundraising page.. It would post screenshots of deleted racist tweets, highlight offensive comments by elected officials and retweet https://twitter.com/YesYoureRacist/status/865279625584402432 who would say "I'm not racist but" followed by something, well, racist.

But after the rally in Charlottesville, Yes You're Racist pivoted from highlighting online remarks to identifying real-world marchers.

Many of the people it named had publicly declared their plans to go to Charlottesville. The account identified one man as "Illegal Aryan," who wrote on the white supremacist site Daily Stormer last month, "See you in Charlottesville!"

Of course, The Daily Stormer is now offline...

Ironically, the guy that started @YesYoureRacist got doxed and his identity was reported on Breitbart but the fellow was later interviewed by CNN so it's not like he was trying to hide :~)

HuffPo Contributor Outed as Leader of Charlottesville Doxing Campaign

So, the lesson? Don't go on a march if you don't want your identity released...I'm ok with my identity being known for marching with scientists on Earth Day!




Oooops, how did that image get there :~)

[pegelli]

Did Germans change their national flag?

The current German flag (black/red/yellow) was used in 1848, 1863-1866, 1919-1933 and 1949 to now
During the Nazi regime the national flag was red, with a white circle/black swastika in the middle.

[Farmer]

Oh, and on the synagogue approval being refused, there were three general areas of concern:

· The proposal does not respond to the context, character and streetscape of the area or provide sufficient residential amenity

· Unacceptable amenity impacts such as adequate solar access, noise and loss of privacy; and

· The site is unsuitable for a synagogue because of the potential risk to users and other members of the general public.

So there are multiple issues, all of which are open to being addressed with a new application.  Note that the application as submitted included building features specifically designed to deal with a terrorist attack, so that risk was already acknowledged by those making the submission.

[pegelli]

Contrary to the advice he got from several members posting here Trump changed his tune on the incidents in Charlottesville

From The Guardian:

Donald Trump has bowed to overwhelming pressure and directly condemned the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, two days after violent clashes left one woman dead.

“Racism is evil,” the US president said at the White House. “And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

Full article


Btw, I agree with Rob C, planning to remove Lee's satue (which triggered the violent and tragic events) makes no sense to me, you can't rewrite history by making it conform to today's norms.

[Chairman Bill]

What's telling is that he really did take his time in finally condemning the Nazis. I'm guessing his real sympathies lie with those he's been forced to denounce. As Donald 'Il Duce' Trump might put it, sad.

[jeremyrh]

you can't rewrite history by making it conform to today's norms.

Nobody is trying to rewrite history, they are just saying that Lee is not someone we admire or think worthy of public appreciation.

[Alan Klein]

I think we should start burning books again.

[pegelli]

you can't rewrite history by making it conform to today's norms.

Nobody is trying to rewrite history, they are just saying that Lee is not someone we admire or think worthy of public appreciation.

Who is "we"? Maybe "we" should accept that in the times the statue was erected there was appreciation for the figure pictured and just let it stand. I see no justification changing that > 130 years after the fact.

[Alan Klein]

you can't rewrite history by making it conform to today's norms.

Nobody is trying to rewrite history, they are just saying that Lee is not someone we admire or think worthy of public appreciation.

Where does this stop? Should we tear down all paintings and statues of Washington,  Jefferson,  Madison and all the other founding fathers, the people who created our country,  because they were slave owners ?

This is all about the left and Democrats trying to separate us from being American through division politics.   Rich vs poor,  white vs black,  male vs female,   multiculturalism,  etc.   Anything to divide us to cause us too fight and to pick up votes.     

Where were these sacrosanct newspapers when Obama invited to the white house Al Sharpton,  a black bigot, racist who hates whites and anti - Semite?  Then CNN gives him his own show.  Where were these papers when Obama without any evidence blamed white cops for bigotry and crimes when they were later exonerated? 

This is all about trying to destroy Trump.   No mattet what he does he'll be castigated,  his words will be distorted.   

[jeremyrh]

Who is "we"?

"We" is the residents of Charlotteville. I guess they have the right to say who they want to be honoured in their town.

[jeremyrh]

What's telling is that he really did take his time in finally condemning the Nazis.

Well, you wouldn't want him to make a hasty snap decision on whether to denounce white supremacists and Nazis would you? These things take time!!

[pegelli]

Who is "we"?

"We" is the residents of Charlotteville. I guess they have the right to say who they want to be honoured in their town.

Are you a resident of Charlottesville?
And yes, the residents of Charlottesville (via the city council) have the right to take the statue down. However I think I have the right to find that a stupid decision.

[jeremyrh]

No I am not, and nor did I suggest that I am.

You are of course welcome to your view. However, it  find it illogical.

Suppose that the city of Amsterdam wanted to put up a statue of Van Gogh. Would you object on the grounds that he was not honoured in his lifetime and that we are effectively rewriting history?

If it were later discovered that he had not painted anything, just bought the works from a car boot sale, would you object to the statue bring removed?

Does  a statue have eternal life as a record of what was thought at one moment in time, or is it an emblem of what we appreciate today?

[pegelli]

No I am not, and nor did I suggest that I am.

You are of course welcome to your view. However, it  find it illogical.

Suppose that the city of Amsterdam wanted to put up a statue of Van Gogh. Would you object on the grounds that he was not honoured in his lifetime and that we are effectively rewriting history?

If it were later discovered that he had not painted anything, just bought the works from a car boot sale, would you object to the statue bring removed?

Does  a statue have eternal life as a record of what was thought at one moment in time, or is it an emblem of what we appreciate today?

So "we" is the people of Charlottesville + you, OK I understand

Regarding your comparison, we're talking about General Lee, not about Van Gogh and we're talking about removing a statue of a general and not raising a new one for a painter. So I don't see the connection you're trying to make and I don't see why you call my position illogical. If anything is illogical it's you're story of trying to compare the two.

Whether you (or I) like everything he did or not, Lee is still a historical figure and the support for removing the statue is not unanimous. I find it a stupid decision to remove it, but I understand many people don't agree with me, and that's fine.

[jeremyrh]

No. I didn't state my position on the Lee statue, so we is the people of Charlotteville, or at least  a significant number of them.

I actually think it was foolish to make a big thing about the statue but it has nothing to do with rewriting history. After all, a lump of stone is just that - it doesn't have a story of its own. Children may ask who Lee was and then the parents can say a good man or a bad man as they wish. The history remains.

My analogy with VG was simply to point out that as our views change we (we) may decide to honour or not honour someone. If VG turned out to have been a fraud we are not doing anything strange by removing his statue. It's a lump of stone. Likewise, the absence of honour does not have to persist forever just because he was not honoured at a particular time.

An interesting additional question - suppose a building embodies a political ideology that we now find repugnant - eg Mussolini's fascist architecture - is there a case for pulling it down? I would say not, but I recognise that some people may say that this is not consistent with my comments about the Lee statue.

[Rob C]

Emotion and logic don't always sleep well together.

Rob

[jeremyrh]

More examples - exceptions to prove (sensu stricto) the rule:

Statues of Buddha in Afghanistan
Statues of Stalin
Statues of Hitler
Milan railway station (as above)
Statue of "Bomber" Harris (WW2 RAF hero/villain)

[pegelli]

I actually think it was foolish to make a big thing about the statue but it has nothing to do with rewriting history. After all, a lump of stone is just that - it doesn't have a story of its own. Children may ask who Lee was and then the parents can say a good man or a bad man as they wish. The history remains.

But will they ask the question when the public sight is erased? Maybe rewriting history is too strong, but it's certainly erasing history.

My analogy with VG was simply to point out that as our views change we (we) may decide to honour or not honour someone. If VG turned out to have been a fraud we are not doing anything strange by removing his statue. It's a lump of stone. Likewise, the absence of honour does not have to persist forever just because he was not honoured at a particular time.

I think taking away "honours" by removing a statue that was raised 57 years after his death (he died 137 years ago) because some people who from a current perspective weigh his actions as less desirable is what I'm questioning. Lee wasn't a fraud, he did what he thought was right at the time and after his death apparently many other people thought so as well. Who are we to "rejudge" this behaviour looking through the glasses of the current time. Should we remove statues of older politicians because they didn't allow women's voting rights? Should we remove statues of Julius Ceasar because he was a dictator (by current standards)? Should Florence remove the statue of Macchiavelli because he did some shady politics at the time? I don't think all Lee did was right and I fully support abolition of slavery and despise racism, but removing the statue so long after all these events makes no sense to me.

An interesting additional question - suppose a building embodies a political ideology that we now find repugnant - eg Mussolini's fascist architecture - is there a case for pulling it down? I would say not, but I recognise that some people may say that this is not consistent with my comments about the Lee statue.

I agree with you, as long as it's functional there's no point taking it down because it "represents" certain political views in past times. When it's no longer functional no problem to take it down either, but not "just because" it was built by facists.