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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 917040 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4880 on: August 11, 2017, 07:35:12 am »

I saw a report on http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/346091-trump-threatens-mcconnell about Trump "threatening" McConnell because he was unable to push through Trump's agenda (e.g., health care, I presume). It was probably just the usual phoney bluster on Trump's part, but on the face of it it sounds like he thinks he's the boss and the Senate is there to do his bidding. I am no expert on American politics, but my understanding is that the 3 branches of government in the USA are independent. McConnell reports to the people who voted for him, he doesn't report to Trump, is my understanding. A later report on the same web site states that some other Senators have rallied behind McConnell on this; I'm not surprised.

Why is the President alienating important politicians in his own party? Does he think they're afraid of him?
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Robert

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4881 on: August 11, 2017, 07:48:40 am »

Ain't that funny that, when Trump uses the very argument of the left, he still gets criticized for that by the left? The argument being that the Republicans had seven long years to figure out their own version of the healthcare legislation. A sound argument, by the way, by most reasonable standards, not just the left.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4882 on: August 11, 2017, 08:07:24 am »

Ain't that funny that, when Trump uses the very argument of the left, he still gets criticized for that by the left? The argument being that the Republicans had seven long years to figure out their own version of the healthcare legislation. A sound argument, by the way, by most reasonable standards, not just the left.
Trump could stand on his head and spit wooden nickels and the left would complain they're the wrong size.

Everything is bad because they want to destroy him.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4883 on: August 11, 2017, 08:36:27 am »

Trump could stand on his head and spit wooden nickels and the left would complain they're the wrong size.

Everything is bad because they want to destroy him.

I take your point, but didn't the GOP do that to Obama for the previous 8 years? That doesn't make any of it right, it's a lousy situation, but it didn't start yesterday. And Trump isn't an innocent victim in all of this either. You can't play confrontation polarized politics and not expect this.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4884 on: August 11, 2017, 11:30:53 am »

:)  Superb image!  Made me spit coffee.
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4885 on: August 11, 2017, 11:36:54 am »

A sound argument, by the way, by most reasonable standards, not just the left.
Maybe, but it was his campaign promise to repeal and replace the ACA very swiftly. And he hasn't delivered. So blaming others doesn't take anything away from his ineffective execution of that promise.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4886 on: August 11, 2017, 11:48:35 am »

I take your point, but didn't the GOP do that to Obama for the previous 8 years? That doesn't make any of it right, it's a lousy situation, but it didn't start yesterday. And Trump isn't an innocent victim in all of this either. You can't play confrontation polarized politics and not expect this.
I'm not talking about the Democrats or the GOP.  That's legitimate because they're the opposition to each other. I'm referring to the media like the NY Times and the Washington Post.  They've made it their purpose in life to destroy the Trump administration.  While they've always been biased left and Democrat, it's gotten out of hand.  Any balance has evaporated. 

Look, anyone can find or spin good or bad in a person and attack or defend them.  We take sides here and do that all the time.  Democrat and Republican politicians can do that too.  That's all legit.  But when influential newspapers do it, it's destructive.  It's become totally political.  Media is 90% against Trump.   It's really fake news and by that I don't mean untruthful.  I mean biased so the warts are headlined on page 1 and the good stuff is buried on page 47.  It's working somewhat now, except for the Trump faithful.  But will that work in the end?  Will independents eventually see through the plot to destroy Trump and then take it out on Democrats?  No one likes to be fooled.  Well, time will tell.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4887 on: August 11, 2017, 12:00:15 pm »

Maybe, but it was his campaign promise to repeal and replace the ACA very swiftly. And he hasn't delivered. So blaming others doesn't take anything away from his ineffective execution of that promise.
You're right.  He will look bad.   That's why he's criticizing Republicans.   But he's doing them a favor. If they don't get their act together, Republicans in Congress will suffer in the 2018 elections and could lose the Senate. 

In any case, this is what people like about Trump.  He tells it like it is.  He doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth like Hillary was great at.  You know where he stands, whether you're Sessions, McConnell, Assad or Kim Jung-Un.   It's already worked with Sessions.  He's suddenly doing what Trump wants him to do.  Assad has back off with his chemical bombs.  Now we'll see what McConnell and Kim do.   McConnell will fear Trump going against certain Republican senators who don't support changing Obamacare so he'll lose his Senate leadership role.  You know he's under pressure to perform now.  Trump's in effect put him on notice.  Perform or lose your leadership role to the Democrats including the next Supreme Court justice.  McConnell will get on-board like Sessions and Assad. 

I wonder what Kim is thinking? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4888 on: August 11, 2017, 12:08:32 pm »

The liberal press doesn't get Trump, they hate him so.  They're not use to politicians talking tough.  They liked Obama's wimpy leading from behind.  The world had become use to that as well.  That's why they don't like Trump either.  They liked Obama because he was a pushover.  Now they're facing someone who doesn't take prisoners.   Someone who shoots first and asks questions later.  Is it dangerous?  Sure.  But adversaries have to be careful.  They're facing a powerful president and country.  It's causing them  to back off. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4889 on: August 11, 2017, 12:10:27 pm »

That's good for peace.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4890 on: August 11, 2017, 03:03:37 pm »

I'm not talking about the Democrats or the GOP.  That's legitimate because they're the opposition to each other. I'm referring to the media like the NY Times and the Washington Post.  They've made it their purpose in life to destroy the Trump administration.  While they've always been biased left and Democrat, it's gotten out of hand.  Any balance has evaporated. 

Look, anyone can find or spin good or bad in a person and attack or defend them.  We take sides here and do that all the time.  Democrat and Republican politicians can do that too.  That's all legit.  But when influential newspapers do it, it's destructive.  It's become totally political.  Media is 90% against Trump.   It's really fake news and by that I don't mean untruthful.  I mean biased so the warts are headlined on page 1 and the good stuff is buried on page 47.  It's working somewhat now, except for the Trump faithful.  But will that work in the end?  Will independents eventually see through the plot to destroy Trump and then take it out on Democrats?  No one likes to be fooled.  Well, time will tell.

Given the current context (digital media, Breitbart, alt-Right, etc.), I don't understand your constant harping about the liberal media. There are all kinds of points of view easily available out there now. It's as if you're a politician on the campaign trail trying to control the message, always returning to the biased media. Trump initiated public feuds with people in his own party (e.g., McConnell) and people he placed in office (e.g., Sessions), you can't blame that on the loonie-left media. There is a twitter trail of evidence. Internal battles at the white house are subject of daily coverage in the press. The GOP has majorities in both houses. They should be sitting on top of the world, but they're not. Are you saying that's the fault of the NY Times? At some point, the competence of the people involved has to be called into question.

This persistent whining about the big bad media is getting old. They can't have been THAT big or THAT bad, since he won the election, as you keep pointing out. Being President of the USA is hardball, about as hardball as you can get, but I'm not seeing a firm control of the situation, do you? If he wants to be President, then a combative press comes with the territory. If he doesn't like that, tough, deal with it. If he can't, then he should leave and let someone competent do the job.

The Republicans should be laughing right about now, there is not even an well-organized Democratic party to fight them, but instead they're feuding among themselves, and Trump is the reason. Sooner or later, voters, even the base, are going to start wondering what the weak link is. The rest of the country already has a pretty good idea, I'd say.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4891 on: August 11, 2017, 03:45:54 pm »

Given the current context (digital media, Breitbart, alt-Right, etc.), I don't understand your constant harping about the liberal media. There are all kinds of points of view easily available out there now. It's as if you're a politician on the campaign trail trying to control the message, always returning to the biased media. Trump initiated public feuds with people in his own party (e.g., McConnell) and people he placed in office (e.g., Sessions), you can't blame that on the loonie-left media. There is a twitter trail of evidence. Internal battles at the white house are subject of daily coverage in the press. The GOP has majorities in both houses. They should be sitting on top of the world, but they're not. Are you saying that's the fault of the NY Times? At some point, the competence of the people involved has to be called into question.

This persistent whining about the big bad media is getting old. They can't have been THAT big or THAT bad, since he won the election, as you keep pointing out. Being President of the USA is hardball, about as hardball as you can get, but I'm not seeing a firm control of the situation, do you? If he wants to be President, then a combative press comes with the territory. If he doesn't like that, tough, deal with it. If he can't, then he should leave and let someone competent do the job.

The Republicans should be laughing right about now, there is not even an well-organized Democratic party to fight them, but instead they're feuding among themselves, and Trump is the reason. Sooner or later, voters, even the base, are going to start wondering what the weak link is. The rest of the country already has a pretty good idea, I'd say.

You can't compare Breitbart to the Washington Post and the NY Times.  No one reads Breitbart.  Even I don't read Breitbart. :)  But, the whole world reads the Post and Times.  These newspapers have a major influence in effecting beliefs.  Also, the major TV and radio companies, CBS, NBC and ABC, also liberal in content, are major sources of influence as well.  Most people watch or listen to them or their local affiliates in the cities where they live on a daily basis. 

Trump voters understand the bias.  But it's not just about Trump.  He's new to the scene.  It's that these news organs have always supported a liberal agenda.  And a lot of America has understood the bias for years. I saw it in the 1950's as a teenager.  It's actually gotten worse.  They don't even try to be fair or present the news as news rather than liberal political fodder.  When Trump ran for president, he lifted the cover off the box and revealed the bias and attacked them for it.  The press hates him for doing that and continuing to do it.  He exposed the game they have been playing.  So now, they're doubling down on it to get rid of him.  They'd rather deal with a more conservative politician like VP Pence.  He'll suck up their BS. 

Trump fights back and they can't handle it.  Trump voters eat it up because they understand what's going on.  When Trump points his finger up over the crowd to the cameras in the back and yells, "There they are.  Fake news.", all his supporters get it and yuck it up and cheer.  Finally, someone is pointing out the hypocrisy and liberal bias of the press and standing up to them. 



pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4892 on: August 11, 2017, 04:33:24 pm »

Trump fights back and they can't handle it. 
C'mon Allan, do you really believe that?
He's whining and the more he whines the better it is for the liberal media, more sales, more subscriptions, more viewers.
Yes, Trump has a loyal base who don't like it, but I think more and more people are getting fed up with the chaos he's creating.

I'm with Robert, the GOP and Trump should be miles ahead, but they're losing it because they didn't do their homework when they had the time for it and now that they have to deliver they only fight among themselves and thereby don't achieve a whole lot.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4893 on: August 11, 2017, 06:18:02 pm »

C'mon Allan, do you really believe that?
He's whining and the more he whines the better it is for the liberal media, more sales, more subscriptions, more viewers.
Yes, Trump has a loyal base who don't like it, but I think more and more people are getting fed up with the chaos he's creating.

I'm with Robert, the GOP and Trump should be miles ahead, but they're losing it because they didn't do their homework when they had the time for it and now that they have to deliver they only fight among themselves and thereby don't achieve a whole lot.
  I love it when Jim Acosta gets unhinged.  You're right about  more sales, etc.  The best thing that ever happened to them is Trump.  Nobody would watch if Pence was President.  A big yawn.  Can you imagine Schewe needing to start Pence II?  We'd be out taking pictures.   Also, would you want to see Melania or Hillary's fat ass?   Give me a break!  :)

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4894 on: August 12, 2017, 12:02:15 am »

Can you imagine Schewe needing to start Pence II?

If Pence did the stoooopid shyte Trump has done, you betcha bud. But I know a bit more about Pence than you do...Trump is goofy stupid, Pence is evil. He paints himself as a Christian but his annual behavior of about as unChristian as the worst of the Tea Bagger party. As governor or Indiana, he tried to do a lot of far right (not alt right but Christian right) measures that finally prompted Indiana to vote him out of office (he would not have won re-election had he not accepted the vp role).

So, yes, I would be posting a lot of stuff about Pence...in fact, I can if you want, shall I?

Did you know that Pence has a pet rabbit?


Pet rabbit "Marlon Bundo," is carried off the plane of Vice president-elect Mike Pence
as he arrives with his wife Karen Pence and daughter Charlotte Pence, at Andrews Air
Force Base, Md., Monday, Jan. 9, 2017.
(AP Photo/Alex Brandon) (Photo: Alex Brandon, AP)


This from Indy Star

Trump's VP: 10 things to know about Mike Pence

Quote
On Friday, Jan. 20, 2017, former Indiana Gov. Mike Pence will take the oath of office to become Donald Trump's vice president.

Whether your reaction to the news was "Mike Who?" or you just need a refresher on his two-plus decades in politics, here's what you should know about the 50th governor of Indiana.

Then there's this...

Think Trump Is Scary? Check Out Mike Pence On The Issues.


Dumb and Dummer?

Quote
Mike Pence looks like a guy who watched too many episodes of “Mary Tyler Moore” as a kid and came away imprinted by the character of Ted Baxter, the pompous and self-deluded silver-haired newsman, whose perpetual cluelessness amused millions of TV watchers across the country. Little Mike appears to have seen Ted’s uninformed close-mindedness as a virtue and grew up to become an unapologetic evangelical social conservative who sees the last 40 years of progress on abortion, gay rights, civil rights, criminal justice reform and race relations as a disaster for the country.

Why does it matter? Because there is a possibility that Pence could become president of the United States. I know, I know. He’s running for vice president but consider that if he wins, Trump would be the oldest person ever elected to the job. He hides it well behind the constant rage and Agent Orange hair dye, but the Talking Yam is 70. At 6’3” and 236 pounds, he is overweight. He lives on Big Macs and Kentucky Fried Chicken. And, we know from John Kasich, who turned Trump down, he envisions making his VP the most powerful in history—kind of a chief operating officer while Trump handles the really important things like 3 a.m. tweets.

Donald Trump might blow up the world, but Mike Pence would set the clock back to 1954. It’s hard to say which would be worse. Here are some of Pence’s positions that should give even the most lukewarm progressive voters pause.

So, good idea Alan, I'll start looking for news stories about Pence as well as the, how did they write it, the Talking Yam?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4895 on: August 12, 2017, 12:13:34 am »

...

So, good idea Alan, I'll start looking for news stories about Pence as well as the, how did they write it, the Talking Yam?

Please don't.   I've got to get back to shooting pictures.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4896 on: August 12, 2017, 12:15:46 am »

Ok, just to make Alan happy, back to Trump...

Donald Trump Says He’s The Best Dealmaker. Negotiation Experts Say Otherwise.


Mr. Grumpy on the phone

Quote
His leaked calls with world leaders reveal more bullying than diplomacy. “It makes Trump look a little venal, a little weak.”

WASHINGTON ― Donald Trump is the best at making deals. The best! He’ll tell you himself by tweeting unsolicited advice on how to win in a negotiation or bragging about his book The Art of the Deal (which he didn’t actually write, but whatever).

Now we can see for ourselves how the president puts his deal-making skills to work. Last week, The Washington Post released transcripts of two phone calls Trump had with foreign leaders in January — one with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto and another with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. It’s a rare window into how Trump works his magic with people one-on-one when he doesn’t think anyone is watching.

There were no deals made on either call. Trump threatened Peña Nieto, a top U.S. ally, with tariffs on Mexican goods and then warned he’d never meet with him unless he stopped saying publicly that Mexico won’t pay for Trump’s promised border wall. In a heated exchange with Turnbull, also a key U.S. ally, Trump vented about the “stupid deal” the United States had made with Australia to accept refugees into the country. He all but hung up on Turnbull in the end.

Is this as bananas as it sounds? Or maybe Trump is deploying clever, art-of-the-deal tactics that casual observers might miss?

We asked experts in business and diplomatic negotiation to weigh in.

If you like Trump and think he's doing a good job and negotiates a great deal, you don't want to read what the experts had to say. Sorry, but the actual transcripts show Trump in a very, very bad light...

Here's a pull quote for a taste:

He’s treating Peña Nieto as if he were a merchant and he were a souvenir purchaser haggling for a price. ... It makes Trump look a little venal, a little weak.
Anthony Wanis-St. John, associate professor at American University

And this is the fellow we have trying to negotiate our way out of war with North Korea?

And the people who voted for Trump thought Trump knew how to negotiate? Maybe a real estate deal to do money laundering for the Russians, but to actually try to keep America safe? EeeeeeeK!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4897 on: August 12, 2017, 12:22:20 am »

Here's a question for our European friends.  If  war  breaks out with North Korea, will European NATO countries honor Article 5 and send troops to support us on the Korean peninsula?

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4898 on: August 12, 2017, 12:26:57 am »

Another Yam story...

Donald Trump’s Pop-Culture Presidency Enters Its Thriller Phase (Opinion)
Owen Gleiberman
Chief Film Critic, Variety




Quote
Ever since Donald Trump appeared on the horizon of presidential politics, he has mirrored the pop culture of the past. That’s because Trump, in one way or another, has always been an actor — a man whose image precedes his reality. For 35 years, he has been a genius at one thing: stroking and manipulating the image machine of modern media. Trump went on the campaign trail as an insult-comedian/talk-radio-host/pompadoured-Elvis/reality-TV-mogul/badass-in-chief, and whenever I read now about how Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush blew it, I always think: None of those mere mortals ever stood a chance. They were fighting a superhero of populist sleaze who didn’t need facts and figures — he just needed the best lines. Trump remains one of the only people you could name who is not primarily in the entertainment business yet created himself as a character, a figment of larger-than-life fantasy. That’s what autocrats do: They don’t sell reality, they sell mythology.

Pop culture is the metaphysical realm in which Trump operates. To most Washington insiders, his signature phrase of “You’re fired!” on “The Apprentice” was just a catchy piece of kitsch. What they missed is how Trump’s use of that phrase, for all its comic braggadocio, was profoundly nostalgic, because it returned you to an earlier America, one in which you could be fired. (Yes, you can still be fired, but now, for the most part, you’re downsized — phased out of the workforce, replaced by a robot or a worker in Guangdong Province.) Trump was never an old-fashioned patriarch-executive who had the backs of his workers, but he played one — brilliantly — on TV.

Now, he plays the president on TV. But, of course, he isn’t just playing.

With Trump, the reason the pop metaphors keep coming is that they’re often the only things that explain what’s going on.

--snip--

To say, however, that the Trump presidency has entered its countdown-to-zero Hollywood thriller phase is not to trivialize what’s going on. It’s to understand that Trump is suddenly acting like an unhinged president out of a movie because he has unleashed this egregiously reckless threat through the lens of his pop-culture-fed imagination. He’s a leader who has begun to feel cornered: not just by the provocations of North Korea, but by a presidency that isn’t going his way and by a Russia investigation that’s heading directly his way. And so he’s lashing out, asserting his nuclear manhood. It’s policy by toxic tantrum. He’s tweeting his way to Armageddon.

Maybe we're all being overly dramatic...but what if we're not?
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4899 on: August 12, 2017, 12:34:49 am »

Uh ho...Pence again...

Today’s Impeach-O-Meter: America Demands President Pence



Quote
In the tradition of the Clintonometer and the Trump Apocalypse Watch, the Impeach-O-Meter is a wildly subjective and speculative daily estimate of the likelihood that Donald Trump leaves office before his term ends, whether by being impeached (and convicted) or by resigning under threat of same.

A recent poll estimates that 70 percent of U.S. voters don't think Donald Trump has the right "temperament" to be president. In another poll, 4 in 10 Republicans said he was "unpresidential." We're currently involved in a nuclear standoff with North Korea. Bad judgment and unpresidential behavior could, in a matter of minutes, create the greatest catastrophe in human history. But there's an alternative: Mike Pence could be president!

Yiiipeee, President Pence!!!
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