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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 200905 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4360 on: July 21, 2017, 10:11:37 PM »

Let's not get carried away: the full title of the position is: the Agriculture Department’s undersecretary for research, education and economics.

So, an MBA, a professor of economics, and a PhD in Public Administration is not qualified to lead a public administration department where 2/3 of its title are "education and economics"?


You're being too logical.
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James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4361 on: July 21, 2017, 11:18:58 PM »

Let's not get carried away: the full title of the position is: the Agriculture Department’s undersecretary for research, education and economics.

So, an MBA, a professor of economics, and a PhD in Public Administration is not qualified to lead a public administration department where 2/3 of its title are "education and economics"?

Qualified?  Maybe by the letter of the description, but let's not pretend that there aren't people in a related field that are as qualified *and* have an actual background in a relevant field besides maybe crop dusting :/.   And let's not pretend that a primary qualification to serve in Trumpland isn't loyalty to the King.   

Seriously, This Trump administration literally does almost everything wrong. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4362 on: July 21, 2017, 11:34:04 PM »

Let's discuss something of more importance than some guy managing rice research.  The State Dept just banned travel to North Korea under the guise that they don't want Americans to be mis-treated like the America Otto Warmier who died.  I have a more dire prediction that it maybe a prelude to an attack on North Korea.  We wouldn't want them to hold hostages afterwards to use as pawns in negotiations.  What do you think?
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James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4363 on: July 21, 2017, 11:52:35 PM »

Let's discuss something of more importance than some guy managing rice research.  The State Dept just banned travel to North Korea under the guise that they don't want Americans to be mis-treated like the America Otto Warmier who died.  I have a more dire prediction that it maybe a prelude to an attack on North Korea.  We wouldn't want them to hold hostages afterwards to use as pawns in negotiations.  What do you think?

Honestly?   I think if Trump launches a preemptive strike of any consequence on North Korea he needs to be immediately deposed, hopefully avoiding WW3. 
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4364 on: July 21, 2017, 11:54:00 PM »

Let's discuss something of more importance than some guy managing rice research.  The State Dept just banned travel to North Korea under the guise that they don't want Americans to be mis-treated like the America Otto Warmier who died.  I have a more dire prediction that it maybe a prelude to an attack on North Korea.  We wouldn't want them to hold hostages afterwards to use as pawns in negotiations.  What do you think?

That's one possibility. The other is that maybe they just want the North Koreans to draw such conclusions and get them more receptive for some kind of negotiations.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4365 on: July 22, 2017, 12:57:29 AM »

Yes,  it could be a head fake. 
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DeanChriss

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4366 on: July 22, 2017, 08:31:16 AM »

Let's not get carried away: the full title of the position is: the Agriculture Department’s undersecretary for research, education and economics.

So, an MBA, a professor of economics, and a PhD in Public Administration is not qualified to lead a public administration department where 2/3 of its title are "education and economics"?

That's fine if you forget the word "research, which he would know nothing about. It might also be hard to educate or determine economic impacts of new technologies he does not fully understand. There's also that pesky congressional rule that says the role must be filled "from among distinguished scientists." I was assuming there was actually a reason for that beyond the phrase just sounding good. Perhaps it's FAKE NEWS.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4367 on: July 22, 2017, 09:00:36 AM »

That's fine if you forget the word "research, which he would know nothing about. It might also be hard to educate or determine economic impacts of new technologies he does not fully understand...

By the same token, how would a scientist manage the other two roles, education and economics, he would know nothing about?  As for the congressional rule, it's a rule, a suggestion, not a law. The most interesting aspect here is the original sin, i.e., whoever designed such a department, with such a disparate triple function.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4368 on: July 22, 2017, 09:06:57 AM »

Honestly?   I think if Trump launches a preemptive strike of any consequence on North Korea he needs to be immediately deposed, hopefully avoiding WW3. 

Why? Almost every American president had its war, why not Trump? Heck, even Secretaries of State had their wars (remember Madeleine Albright war?) why not a President?

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4369 on: July 22, 2017, 09:41:33 AM »

Congress should approve any attack.  We've gotten away from our Constitution and given too much power to our Presidents.  Congress suffers from cowardice - they'd rather let the President make the decision and take the heat.  So over the years they've abandoned the Constitution that gives them the responsibility to declare war.  Personally, I'm not looking forward to Korean War II.  On the other hand, missiles armed with nuclear weapons aimed at us is uncomfortable.  But we lived with that with the Soviet Union.  Frankly, we should just leave the North Koreans to live happy in their Middle Kingdom dump.  I think they just want to be left alone to allow the leadership to remain in power.  We don't have to get involved unless they start taking military action.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4370 on: July 22, 2017, 10:02:25 AM »

Russian election interference:

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,984833,00.html

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RESCUING BORIS
THE SECRET STORY OF HOW FOUR U.S. ADVISERS USED POLLS, FOCUS GROUPS, NEGATIVE ADS AND ALL THE OTHER TECHNIQUES OF AMERICAN CAMPAIGNING TO HELP BORIS YELTSIN WIN

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4371 on: July 22, 2017, 05:24:54 PM »

Russian election interference:

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,984833,00.html

Yeah, so you have a headline and the story isn't visible unless you subscribe...pretty sure the headline isn't the entire story, right? Did you read the whole story? If so, what did it say? Otherwise you only have a tantalizing headline.

And regardless, if the US did that then, does that make it ok for the Russians to do it to us last year? Tit for tat, eye for an eye? The end result is we have a big fat Cheeto as president instead of a raging alcoholic that Russia got. Not sure that's a fair trade...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4372 on: July 22, 2017, 05:50:27 PM »

Yeah, so you have a headline and the story isn't visible unless you subscribe...pretty sure the headline isn't the entire story, right? Did you read the whole story? If so, what did it say? ...

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Most of Yeltsin’s confidants believed the President would be magically re-elected despite the Duma catastrophe, but Braynin thought otherwise. The President, he reasoned, could lose without the same kind of professional assistance U.S. office seekers employ as a matter of course. Braynin began a series of confidential discussions with Yeltsin’s aides, including one with First Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Soskovets, who at the time was in charge of the President’s nascent re-election effort. Finally, in early February, Braynin was instructed to “find some Americans” but to proceed discreetly. “Secrecy was paramount,” says Braynin. “Everyone realized that if the Communists knew about this before the election, they would attack Yeltsin as an American tool. We badly needed the team, but having them was a big risk.”

To “find some Americans,” Braynin worked through Fred Lowell, a San Francisco lawyer with close ties to California’s Republican Party. On Feb. 14, Lowell called Joe Shumate, a G.O.P. expert in political data analysis who had served as deputy chief of staff to California Governor Pete Wilson. Since Wilson’s drive for the 1996 Republican presidential nomination had ended almost before it began, Lowell thought Shumate and George Gorton, Wilson’s longtime top strategist, might be available to help Yeltsin. They were–and they immediately enlisted Richard Dresner, a New York-based consultant who had worked with them on many of Wilson’s campaigns.

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So while Clinton was uninvolved with Yeltsin’s recruitment of the American advisers, the Administration knew of their existence–and although Dresner denies dealing with Morris, three other sources have told Time that on at least two occasions the team’s contacts with Morris were “helpful.”

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Communicating in code — Clinton was called the Governor of California, Yeltsin the Governor of Texas — the Americans sought Morris’ help. They had earlier worked together to script Clinton’s summit meeting with Yeltsin in mid-April. The main goal then was to have Clinton swallow hard and say nothing as Yeltsin lectured him about Russia’s great-power prerogatives. “The idea was to have Yeltsin stand up to the West, just like the Communists insisted they would do if Zyuganov won,” says a Clinton Administration official. “By having Yeltsin posture during that summit without Clinton’s getting bent out of shape, Yeltsin portrayed himself as a leader to be reckoned with. That helped Yeltsin in Russia, and we were for Yeltsin.”

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4373 on: July 22, 2017, 06:44:22 PM »

You quoted the article saying:
Quote
So while Clinton was uninvolved with Yeltsin’s recruitment of the American advisers, the Administration knew of their existence–and although Dresner denies dealing with Morris, three other sources have told Time that on at least two occasions the team’s contacts with Morris were “helpful.”

Interesting...but it doesn't answer my question of what's the point? Are you saying that the fact the US may have interfered in Russia's election in the past somehow gives Russia a pass on interfering on our 2016 election? So you think we should just accept what they did even if Russia and the Trump campaign colluded to help Trump win? That makes Trump an illegitimate president...heck, he's already arguably the worst president we've ever had it would be particularly galling if the big orange cheat got there by cheating.

I'm just hoping we can last long enough to get rid of him before some sort of massive screwup that causes the demise of the United States of America as we know it today.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4374 on: July 22, 2017, 07:24:24 PM »

... Are you saying that the fact the US may have interfered in Russia's election in the past somehow gives Russia a pass on interfering on our 2016 election?...

Yes, unless one is a hypocrite. As a minimum, it wipes off that righteous indignation smirk from certain people's faces.

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... before some sort of massive screwup that causes the demise of the United States of America as we know it today.

Nothing is going to cause the demise of the U.S. as I know it like the loony left.

James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4375 on: July 22, 2017, 07:50:47 PM »

Yes, unless one is a hypocrite. As a minimum, it wipes off that righteous indignation smirk from certain people's faces.

Nothing is going to cause the demise of the U.S. as I know it like the loony left.

I know you don't  actually see the two situations as analogous, do you?  While there is concern that a foreign entity attempted to sway an internal election, the primary issue is that another American - one who is now President - collaborated with that entity in an attempt to sway the election.   

Put another way, both Russia and the US did what you correctly believe every other nation does - attempt to bend foreign powers to favorable circumstances.  Trump, on the other hand, looks to have collaborated with foreign powers against a fellow American.  Not at all the same thing, and you know it.

As for the loony left, I'm not at all sure that a bunch of kids that get mad when they hear insensitive  words are at all as frightening as a bunch of old white guys that think it's a great idea to make it hard for poor people to vote. 
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4376 on: July 22, 2017, 07:52:09 PM »

Yes, unless one is a hypocrite. As a minimum, it wipes off that righteous indignation smirk from certain people's faces.

Yeah, not so much...with your approach it would be Japan's right to drop a nuclear weapon on New York City and perhaps Chicago because, well the USA dropped bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Tit for Tat and Eye or an Eye are poor rational for justifying the actions of another unless you wish to constantly be engaged in retribution. Heck, Putin was trying to get back at Hillary because as Sec State she was supportive of Russian dissident protests. Why go back all the way to Yeltsin’s election as justification?

I don't give a shyte what the USA may have done to others in the distant past and time...what I do care about is the fact that Putin is screwing with us now. And believe me, if that makes me a "hypocrite", so be it. I'm still gonna reject Trump as my president and resist all the bad shyte he's trying to do.

In the mean time I'm gratified that Congress had the balls to do something in a bipartisan manner to punish, even if only a small way, Russia for screwing with us and making harder for the Donald to suck up to his buddy Putin.

CONGRESS REACHES DEAL ON RUSSIA SANCTIONS, LEAVES DONALD TRUMP OUT OF THE LOOP

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Congressional leaders reached an agreement on sanctions for Russia that punish Moscow for alleged election interference and limit Donald Trump’s ability to push back on the restrictions.

The new legislation, which also includes sanctions for Iran and North Korea, is seeking to bring sanctions on those suspected of human rights abuses and aims to penalise Russia for its aggression towards its neighbors as well as the ongoing election hacking saga, The New York Times reported.

Embarrassingly for the president, given the legislation’s broad bipartisan support, it also ignored pleas from the White House to permit Trump more freedom to bend the sanctions for the sake of his freedom to conduct foreign policy, instead making it harder for Trump to intervene.



So, screw you Puty!
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4377 on: July 22, 2017, 07:55:41 PM »

Quote

Nothing is going to cause the demise of the U.S. as I know it like the retchid right

Fixed it for you. :)
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4378 on: July 22, 2017, 07:58:58 PM »

Yes, unless one is a hypocrite.

Nothing wrong with pointing out a potential level of hypocrisy.

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As a minimum, it wipes off that righteous indignation smirk from certain people's faces.

Not really, it's a huge error to compare the level of interference then and now. It's a typical case of comparing past situations in today's context. If we had known then what we do now, we'd have approached things differently, but we didn't know what we now do.

What also seems to be (conveniently?) overlooked, is the difference between unilateral influencing of opinion (AKA propaganda/influencing), and the possibilities nowadays by targeting the information used by individuals to make up their choice, and the possible cooperation(!)/collusion between opposing forces. Conspiracy or (what used to be called) high-treason is of a fundamentally different order than the earlier attempts (where social media and companies like Cambridge Analytica hardly existed, to begin with).

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 09:05:26 PM by BartvanderWolf »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4379 on: July 22, 2017, 08:56:31 PM »

.... I don't give a shyte what the USA may have done to others in the distant past and time...

Distant?! You gotta be kidding me. You think we've ever stopped interfering in other countries elections and internal affairs? Taste of you or own medicine is always a bitch.
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