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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 915274 times)

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4280 on: July 18, 2017, 06:31:31 pm »

Trump has brought it upon himself, Slobo.  That's how he treats people.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4281 on: July 18, 2017, 07:04:22 pm »

Trump has brought it upon himself, Slobo.  That's how he treats people.

Actually, Trump is like an amplifying mirror...he started off being mean, rude and crude and rather than get punished for it, he experienced success. The worse he got, the more common, decent people were revolted but the Trump fans reveled in it. It became a feedback loop that kept getting worse and then, thanks to Putin and a poor democratic nominee, he ended up President of the United Sates of America...and, as he said ‘I’m President and They’re Not’

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WASHINGTON — President Trump used the first part of his holiday weekend getaway to issue more denunciations of the news media, using a celebration of American veterans and freedom at an evening rally to thunder that he would not allow the “fake” media to stop his agenda.

Speaking to raucous supporters at a faith rally at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington Saturday night, Mr. Trump brought the crowd to its feet by condemning news organizations.

“The fake media is trying to silence us,” Mr. Trump told the crowd at the concert hall, after returning to Washington briefly from his weekend getaway at his golf club in New Jersey. “But we will not let them. Because the people know the truth. The fake media tried to stop us from going to the White House. But I’m president and they’re not.”

The next day Trump posted the Trump vs CNN video on twitter...

And, this is the friggin' President...

At some point, the American public in general and the GOP in particular will need to reel him in. Trump isn't helping the GOP–hell, he's not helping anybody but himself and his family...nothing is getting better, so the GOP needs to figure out a way of working with the Democrats and save our country from Trump.

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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4282 on: July 18, 2017, 07:32:34 pm »

Ok, now we have another report of a Trump administration official meeting with a Russian government official that was previously undisclosed...it seems Trump himself met with Putin one on one with only a Russian translator while at a G20 dinner.

So, why is it Trump officials have a hard time disclosing meeting with Russians? Did Trump and the White House think this wouldn't leak out?

Donald Trump Had A Second Meeting With Vladimir Putin At G-20 Summit

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The meeting was previously undisclosed.

President Donald Trump had a second, informal meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the G-20 summit earlier this month, White House officials confirmed Tuesday.

The July 7 meeting was undisclosed until Ian Bremmer, a political scientist and president of the Eurasia Group, told Charlie Rose in an interview released Tuesday that the two leaders met on the sidelines of the global summit in Hamburg, Germany, following a dinner with the heads of state attending the conference. That second, private meeting took place after Trump’s formal sit-down with the Russian president, which lasted more than two hours.

The White House then confirmed to NBC News and Reuters that the meeting had in fact taken place.

According to Bremmer, the second meeting lasted an hour, and the only person present aside from Trump and Putin was a Russian translator.

There is no official government record of the meeting.

The circumstances of the meeting as well as the initial decision by White House officials not to disclose it have again drawn scrutiny to Trump’s relationship with Moscow.

“You have an hour that evening that no one’s even heard of,” said Bremmer in an interviewing airing on Bloomberg and PBS. “We clearly know that Trump does not care what the media has to say about his desire to have a close, personal relationship with the Russian president, and what drives it.”

He continued: “Never in my life as a political scientist have I seen two countries, major countries, with a constellation of national interests that are as dissonant, while the two leaders seem to be doing everything possible to make nice and be close to each other.”

Maybe there's something else going on?

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DanLehman

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4283 on: July 18, 2017, 08:25:20 pm »

it is saddening to see such a level of vulgar disrespect for the President of the United States.

It's amazing that anyone should think he deserves otherwise!?
He has a long history of egregious bad behavior and dubious
associations.  That doesn't change because of the ballot box.
And, egadz, what does he do first up?  --try to brag about having
the biggest crowd?!?  He is his own Tweeter, that's not fake news.
Gimme a break!

And let's see HIS tax returns,
and HIS 30_000 e-msg.s to compare to Hillary's!

)-:
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DeanChriss

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4284 on: July 18, 2017, 08:26:12 pm »


Trump: ‘Let Obamacare Fail…I’m Not Going to Own It’


Trump and the GOP already own it. They assumed ownership when they destabilized insurance markets by promising "repeal and replace", repeal only, and other things not enforcing Obamacare's individual mandate. Insurance companies will not participate with all the variables unknown and the complete chaos Trump has caused, so they are pulling out. This was happening to a small extent already, but it was a surprisingly small and highly vocalized extent. Trump and the GOP started what they knew would be a self fulfilling prophesy with all of their rhetoric. So now they will let it spiral out of control while Americans suffer because of it. I'm sure Trump doesn't care as long as he gets his way.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4285 on: July 18, 2017, 08:31:55 pm »

As hopeless & unpleasant as Trump is, if he's impeached or in some other way relinquishes the presidency, then the next in line is going to be worse. Pence is . . . scary. . . .

Important point.  Trump is as unhinged ideologically as he often seems psychologically.  He is certainly not a conservative by any reasonable definition of the term (on either side of the Atlantic) and it requires a very liberal (sic) interpretation of his incoherent political philosophy to refer to him as an adherent to the traditional positions of the Republican Party (our side of the Atlantic).

Mike Pence has strong, consistent, right-wing (albeit, arguably, in American terms not genuinely conservative) opinions.  He is experienced, disciplined and committed — all characteristics Trump lacks.  As president, he would work cooperatively and probably competently with the majority in the House of Representatives, and I suspect would command support on most issues from the narrower Republican majority in the Senate.  With Pence in the White House, many moderate members of Congress who are currently doing what they can to keep Trump under some semblance of control, fearful of being challenged from the right in state party primary elections, would probably fall in line under Pence.

The people who are hoping for Trump's impeachment, or removal because of disability pursuant to the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and I know quite a few of them, should think twice about what they're asking for.

scyth

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4286 on: July 18, 2017, 08:36:36 pm »

As much as I support free speech, it is saddening to see such a level of vulgar disrespect for the President of the United States.

it takes Trump to see Schewe for what he actually is  ;D
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James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4287 on: July 18, 2017, 08:39:03 pm »

Fun. Hmmm.

As much as I support free speech, it is saddening to see such a level of vulgar disrespect for the President of the United States. I know, I know, they were doing it to Obama as well, monkey references, noose, burned or hung effigies, etc. But those were done by mostly anonymous rednecks, and often secretly. Never have I seen such level of violent and public disrespect by Hollywood celebrities and, much more importantly, on this forum, frequented by highly educated, otherwise civilized, intellectuals and artists. Sad.

As for the argument that Trump deserves it, such an argument works in all other scenarios. There will always be some who would argue that Obama (or anyone else we disagree with) deserved it too. Just a matter of perspective and yardstick.

Although I'd argue that the "offensive" language directed towards Obama was much less "underground" that you believe it to be, I think you're absolutely right on the larger point.   
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tom b

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4288 on: July 18, 2017, 08:49:02 pm »

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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4289 on: July 18, 2017, 09:04:23 pm »

As much as I support free speech, it is saddening to see such a level of vulgar disrespect for the President of the United States.

As much as I support free speech, it is saddening to see such a level of vulgar disrespect from the President of the United States.
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James Clark

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4290 on: July 18, 2017, 09:23:51 pm »

As much as I support free speech, it is saddening to see such a level of vulgar disrespect from the President of the United States.

This is undeniably true as well.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4291 on: July 18, 2017, 11:19:34 pm »

Important point.  Trump is as unhinged ideologically as he often seems psychologically.  He is certainly not a conservative by any reasonable definition of the term (on either side of the Atlantic) and it requires a very liberal (sic) interpretation of his incoherent political philosophy to refer to him as an adherent to the traditional positions of the Republican Party (our side of the Atlantic).

Mike Pence has strong, consistent, right-wing (albeit, arguably, in American terms not genuinely conservative) opinions.  He is experienced, disciplined and committed — all characteristics Trump lacks.  As president, he would work cooperatively and probably competently with the majority in the House of Representatives, and I suspect would command support on most issues from the narrower Republican majority in the Senate.  With Pence in the White House, many moderate members of Congress who are currently doing what they can to keep Trump under some semblance of control, fearful of being challenged from the right in state party primary elections, would probably fall in line under Pence.

The people who are hoping for Trump's impeachment, or removal because of disability pursuant to the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and I know quite a few of them, should think twice about what they're asking for.
What goes around comes around.    Only a majority in the House is required to impeach.  If one party in a majority in the House uses Impeachment against a president of the opposite party without real due course of high crimes and misdemeanors just to increase their power, then there will be payback when the parties are reversed.  This is very dangerous to America.  This is true even if conviction is unlikely because a 2/3 majority in the Senate must vote to convict. The president, pre-occupied with defending himself, is in a weakened state.  His duties are not carried out properly.  I believe that's what happened to Bill Clinton during his impeachment.  He wasn't paying attention to get Bin Laden and Al Khaida which eventually led to 9-11 and all the subsequent wars in the Middle East that we still are fighting.  The Republicans were wrong when they did it.  But that doesn't mean we should do it again.  Elections are the proper procedure for replacing president under all but extreme situations.  Otherwise, we'll turn into a quasi-banana republic. 

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4292 on: July 19, 2017, 12:41:12 am »

Believe all you like, Alan.  The truth is the Clinton administration was anything but distracted before 911. They warned the Bush people specifically about impending attacks by Bin Laden, even mentioning aircraft as weapons.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KIz_4D5vli0


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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4293 on: July 19, 2017, 02:00:41 am »

Wow...now it's starting to all make sense. The article is long but tells the interesting story about Trump's longstanding relationships with "Russians" (usually of the criminal kind).

Trump’s Russian Laundromat



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How to use Trump Tower and other luxury high-rises to clean dirty money, run an international crime syndicate, and propel a failed real estate developer into the White House.

In 1984, a Russian émigré named David Bogatin went shopping for apartments in New York City. The 38-year-old had arrived in America seven years before, with just $3 in his pocket. But for a former pilot in the Soviet Army—his specialty had been shooting down Americans over North Vietnam—he had clearly done quite well for himself. Bogatin wasn’t hunting for a place in Brighton Beach, the Brooklyn enclave known as “Little Odessa” for its large population of immigrants from the Soviet Union. Instead, he was fixated on the glitziest apartment building on Fifth Avenue, a gaudy, 58-story edifice with gold-plated fixtures and a pink-marble atrium: Trump Tower.

A monument to celebrity and conspicuous consumption, the tower was home to the likes of Johnny Carson, Steven Spielberg, and Sophia Loren. Its brash, 38-year-old developer was something of a tabloid celebrity himself. Donald Trump was just coming into his own as a serious player in Manhattan real estate, and Trump Tower was the crown jewel of his growing empire. From the day it opened, the building was a hit—all but a few dozen of its 263 units had sold in the first few months. But Bogatin wasn’t deterred by the limited availability or the sky-high prices. The Russian plunked down $6 million to buy not one or two, but five luxury condos. The big check apparently caught the attention of the owner. According to Wayne Barrett, who investigated the deal for the Village Voice, Trump personally attended the closing, along with Bogatin.

If the transaction seemed suspicious—multiple apartments for a single buyer who appeared to have no legitimate way to put his hands on that much money—there may have been a reason. At the time, Russian mobsters were beginning to invest in high-end real estate, which offered an ideal vehicle to launder money from their criminal enterprises. “During the ’80s and ’90s, we in the U.S. government repeatedly saw a pattern by which criminals would use condos and high-rises to launder money,” says Jonathan Winer, a deputy assistant secretary of state for international law enforcement in the Clinton administration. “It didn’t matter that you paid too much, because the real estate values would rise, and it was a way of turning dirty money into clean money. It was done very systematically, and it explained why there are so many high-rises where the units were sold but no one is living in them.” When Trump Tower was built, as David Cay Johnston reports in The Making of Donald Trump, it was only the second high-rise in New York that accepted anonymous buyers.

In 1987, just three years after he attended the closing with Trump, Bogatin pleaded guilty to taking part in a massive gasoline-bootlegging scheme with Russian mobsters. After he fled the country, the government seized his five condos at Trump Tower, saying that he had purchased them to “launder money, to shelter and hide assets.” A Senate investigation into organized crime later revealed that Bogatin was a leading figure in the Russian mob in New York. His family ties, in fact, led straight to the top: His brother ran a $150 million stock scam with none other than Semion Mogilevich, whom the FBI considers the “boss of bosses” of the Russian mafia. At the time, Mogilevich—feared even by his fellow gangsters as “the most powerful mobster in the world”—was expanding his multibillion-dollar international criminal syndicate into America.

Since Trump’s election as president, his ties to Russia have become the focus of intense scrutiny, most of which has centered on whether his inner circle colluded with Russia to subvert the U.S. election. A growing chorus in Congress is also asking pointed questions about how the president built his business empire. Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, has called for a deeper inquiry into “Russian investment in Trump’s businesses and properties.”

It's a long and complicated story but if you want a 4 minute video version with the author, Craig Unger. He appeared on the 11th Hour with Brian Williams.

Report: Russian mob money helped build Trump business empire



It's clear that Trump has been "helped" by the Russians for over 3 decades. It's not clear if Trump was a willing or knowledgeable participant in some of the underworld activities that took place in or around Trump's properties and casinos, if he was a really smart man, he would have to. Personally, I think he's really, really greedy and will do anything to win and make money but I honestly don't think he's really bright. I think it's possible Trump didn't "know" because he really didn't want to know. As long as Trump had no exposure or liability, he couldn't care less what mobsters did–if he could profit from them.

I think this is the real thing Trump is terrified of...that the Special Council will be able to go through all of his associations and business connections and find out all there is to find out about Trump's relationship with Russia...

I also think this explains why Trump, even with the evidence of Russia's interference still refuses to blame Russia and his now good friend Putin...

But hey, we''l see...maybe there is no there there...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4294 on: July 19, 2017, 06:06:31 am »

Believe all you like, Alan.  The truth is the Clinton administration was anything but distracted before 911. They warned the Bush people specifically about impending attacks by Bin Laden, even mentioning aircraft as weapons.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KIz_4D5vli0



Clinton did nothing.  His terms were from 1992 - 2000.  The World Trade Center was first attacked by Bin Laden and Al Khaida in 1994 when an explosion in one of the towers killed 6.  I lived in NYC and remember it well.  I think he sent a missile  and that was it.  That was 7 years before 9-11.  Then there was the USS Cole attack in 2000 that killed a bunch of sailors, also under his watch.  Warning the next president is a copout, an excuse to cover the fact he did nothing.  He should have gone after Bin Laden during his term but he had more important personal issues to address.    I will say the impeachment wasn't his only distraction what with all the bimbo eruptions he and Hillary had to deal with. 

But I don't want to change the discussion and argue about what he did and didn't do.  The point is that impeachment is a serious matter.  It helped distract Clinton from his job.  It's a terrible way to get rid of a President for political purposes.  Look at all the distraction from the Russian problems.  The whole political climate is in turmoil.  None of this helps America deal with other very important issues.  If you want to change the politics, then change Congress in the 2018 election to Democrat and then replace Trump in the 2020 presidential election. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4295 on: July 19, 2017, 06:31:34 am »

Wow...now it's starting to all make sense. The article is long but tells the interesting story about Trump's longstanding relationships with "Russians" (usually of the criminal kind).


It's a long and complicated story but if you want a 4 minute video version with the author, Craig Unger. He appeared on the 11th Hour with Brian Williams.

Report: Russian mob money helped build Trump business empire


It's clear that Trump has been "helped" by the Russians for over 3 decades. It's not clear if Trump was a willing or knowledgeable participant in some of the underworld activities that took place in or around Trump's properties and casinos, if he was a really smart man, he would have to. Personally, I think he's really, really greedy and will do anything to win and make money but I honestly don't think he's really bright. I think it's possible Trump didn't "know" because he really didn't want to know. As long as Trump had no exposure or liability, he couldn't care less what mobsters did–if he could profit from them.

I think this is the real thing Trump is terrified of...that the Special Council will be able to go through all of his associations and business connections and find out all there is to find out about Trump's relationship with Russia...

I also think this explains why Trump, even with the evidence of Russia's interference still refuses to blame Russia and his now good friend Putin...

But hey, we''l see...maybe there is no there there...


There you go again with guilt by association.  Dropping the "well, he must be a crook because he sold apartments to crooks." argument.

More fake news.  Look, there are all kinds of people buying real estate apartments in NYC to hide their money.  They're attracted to NYC because of the high value of apartments provide a good place to store and protect wealth.  Russian Mafioso, rich mainland Chinese protecting their wealth from the Communist government should things go bad, etc.  A real estate developer doesn't check the moral values and reasons people buy his apartments.  What is Trump or any condo seller suppose to say? "Well, I don't think I can sell you those apartments until you prove to me that the money is from legit earnings?" 

Did you check the financial credentials and moral turpitude of the buyer who bought your house?  I doubt it.  Your only concern was whether he could come up with the mortgage or cash payment.  And when he did, you gladly accepted his check.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4296 on: July 19, 2017, 07:13:38 am »

Expecting that the office of the President be treated with more dignity is a little beside the point now. Trump, Bannon, Roger Stone, etc., put an end to all that a long time ago. Complaining about it now is too late. That ship sailed.

It might be better not to add to that bonfire, but that's probably not going to happen. Anyway, if you look at the history of political satire, it's no worse now than it has ever been. If you want politics to be treated with dignity, then you will have to raise a new generation of dignified politicians.

Besides that, I have a clarifying question about Pence. I have read references about him refusing to have dinner with a woman who is not his wife. Is this real or does it stem from a comedy sketch that has morphed into something viral? Does anyone here know? Because if it's real, isn't that a little Taliban-like? Fundamentalists of all stripes seem to have some innate fear of women. It's very odd behaviour and I don't understand why more people aren't offended by it or afraid of people who think like that. It's way past normal.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4297 on: July 19, 2017, 07:39:15 am »

Expecting that the office of the President be treated with more dignity is a little beside the point now. Trump, Bannon, Roger Stone, etc., put an end to all that a long time ago. Complaining about it now is too late. That ship sailed.

It might be better not to add to that bonfire, but that's probably not going to happen. Anyway, if you look at the history of political satire, it's no worse now than it has ever been. If you want politics to be treated with dignity, then you will have to raise a new generation of dignified politicians.

Besides that, I have a clarifying question about Pence. I have read references about him refusing to have dinner with a woman who is not his wife. Is this real or does it stem from a comedy sketch that has morphed into something viral? Does anyone here know? Because if it's real, isn't that a little Taliban-like? Fundamentalists of all stripes seem to have some innate fear of women. It's very odd behaviour and I don't understand why more people aren't offended by it or afraid of people who think like that. It's way past normal.
I think women appreciate what he does more than men.   But let me ask.  Do you go to dinner with women who aren't your wife?  Do you dance with them?  What would your wife think of that?  Many people of different faiths believe that husbands shouldn't tempt fate so they don't put themselves in compromising situations.  Maybe the divorce rate would be down if men aren't tempted to stray by engaging in these activities.     He's trying to stay faithful to his wife.  Maybe she asked him as well not to do it so he's respecting her concern.  Maybe he's cheated before and this is his way of staying faithful.   But it's not "past normal" because you don't believe in it.

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4298 on: July 19, 2017, 08:35:26 am »

Alan, I get a sense that if a GOP politician were caught strangling kittens whilst fellating a dead goat, you'd find a reason why it was perfectly acceptable behaviour.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #4299 on: July 19, 2017, 08:35:45 am »

I think women appreciate what he does more than men.   But let me ask.  Do you go to dinner with women who aren't your wife?  Do you dance with them?  What would your wife think of that?  Many people of different faiths believe that husbands shouldn't tempt fate so they don't put themselves in compromising situations.  Maybe the divorce rate would be down if men aren't tempted to stray by engaging in these activities.     He's trying to stay faithful to his wife.  Maybe she asked him as well not to do it so he's respecting her concern.  Maybe he's cheated before and this is his way of staying faithful.   But it's not "past normal" because you don't believe in it.

As it happens, I have all the bodily grace of a hydro pole so I don't dance, period, and the world is a better place for it.

But that's beside the point. This fear of women who aren't your wife is insane. I worked with women for decades, never bothered my wife at all. Why should it? Since when is having dinner with a woman "compromising" or "tempting fate"? Are you pulling my leg here and I'm missing the joke.
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