Trump II

[James Clark]

As long as he picks another justice like Gorsuch, he can say whatever he wants.

2) ...and this is why - so long as DJT promotes your far-right ideological bent, the morality of the man and the method is irrelevant to you.   Unfortunately, all of us pay for the means that justify the ends in ways that ideologues can't seem to process.

[Alan Klein]

1) This is a fascinating attitude coming from someone who casually blows off the impact of tens of millions of dollars in financial ties between ex-KGB Soviets and top-level strategists in the Trump campaign...

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1990, all the former Communists suddenly became Capitalists.  Amazing what greed will do.  In any case, what does a Capitlist selling his services to another Capitalist have anything to with just how terrible Communism is?   

[Alan Klein]

2) ...and this is why - so long as DJT promotes your far-right ideological bent, the morality of the man and the method is irrelevant to you.   Unfortunately, all of us pay for the means that justify the ends in ways that ideologues can't seem to process.

What method are your referring too?  Gorsuch legally became a Supreme Court justice.  Everyone says he is extremely qualified to be Justice.  What does Donald's hair and orange tan have to do with that?  Why do people make such nasty comments about Trump yet expect him to not respond in kind. 

Unlike Obama, Trump is a counter puncher.  It's one of the reasons he won.  It gets leaders from around the world to think twice before doing something that might piss him off.  His antics keep everyone off balance.  Forget what polls say here and overseas.  Ask the leaders of these nations how they intend to deal with Trump and whether he's got them concerned.  Being President is not a popularity contest like Obama thought especially when it comes to foreign affairs.  In any case, his methods honed for 70 years, work for him.   It won him the presidency. 

[scyth]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/29/trump-attacks-psycho-joe-scarborough-crazy-mike-brzezinski-in-twitter-tear.html

Trump Tweet

This is how a President acts?

I did like Senator Graham's reply  ]"Mr. President, your tweet was beneath the office and represents what is wrong with American politics, not the greatness of America," Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican, tweeted.

nice tweet from Trump... now he needs to tweet more about Graham, McCain and the rest of old farts

[Schewe]

Gorsuch legally became a Supreme Court justice.

Yeah, not so much...



Mitch McConnell kinda stole that seat from Merrick Garland. Mitch even said he was going to refuse to bring Garland or any nominee before the Senate in the event Clinton won. So, yeah, much like Trump backed into the White House, Gorsuch backed onto the Supreme Court. Neither one actually deserve to be where they are...

[Alan Klein]

Chris:  At first I though that 3 would happen since the 90 days will be over and the Administration would have completed it's new vetting process and the travel ban would end.  There would be no case to review.  Unfortunately, I'm thinking logically based on what most people would do. 

But now, I'm thinking that will not happen. Knowing Trump, the disruptor, he might want the fight to continue the case to prove he was right about all or most of the issues.  SCOTUS has already ruled 9-0 that the president has the right to exclude aliens.  So he can't lose on that.  SCOTUS is not going to reverse themselves.  It's possible that he could win on the other part where they agreed 6-3 that aliens with close relations with America or Americans cannot be banned.  But they could reverse even that and make him a 100% winner.  So he has little to lose by keeping it going and a lot to win politically.  Even if SCOTUS doesn't help with the other part, the issue would stay in the news and remind everyone he won.

So what he's going to do is to issue new vetting after the 90 days that would eliminate practically all entry of aliens for one year, or maybe even permanently until the war with ISIS is completed and we are safe again.  That will drive the Democrats nuts.  The liberal media will go crazy.  And his supporters will scream their approval at his determination to protect the country.  The lower court will say the ban is unconstitutional.  SCOTUS will overrule them and allow the ban against aliens with no relationship with America.

This is the part of the decision  that will make Trump feel he'll have the support of SCOTUS:

From SCOTUS Decision page 11:

...But the injunctions reach much further than that: They also bar enforcement of §2(c) against foreign nationals abroad who have no connection to the United States at all. The equities relied on by the lower courts do not balance the same way in that context.  Denying entry to such a foreign national does not burden any American party by reason of that party’s relationship with the foreign national. And the courts below did not conclude that exclusion in such circumstances would impose any legally relevant hardship on the foreign national himself.  See id., at 762 (“[A]n unadmitted and nonresident alien . . . has no constitutional right of entry to this country”).  So whatever burdens may result from enforcement of §2(c) against a foreign national who lacks any connection to this country, they are, at a minimum, a good deal less concrete than the hardships identified by the courts below. At the same time, the Government’s interest in enforcing §2(c), and the Executive’s authority to do so, are undoubtedly at their peak when there is no tie between the foreign national and the United States.  Indeed, EO–2 itself distinguishes between foreign nationals who have some connection to this country, and foreign nationals who do not, by establishing a case-by-case waiver system primarily for the benefit of individuals in the former cate- gory. See, e.g., §§3(c)(i)–(vi). The interest in preserving national security is “an urgent objective of the highest order.” Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project, 561 U. S. 1, 28 (2010). To prevent the Government from pursuing that objective by enforcing §2(c) against foreign nationals unconnected to the United States would appreciably injure its interests, without alleviating obvious hardship to anyone else...

Well, Trump apparently has created the new rule. "Visitors from six predominantly Muslim nations will not be granted visas unless they have a very close family tie to someone already in the United States or an entity like a workplace or university, under new guidelines the State Department said become effective Thursday night."

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/travel-ban-to-take-effect-as-state-department-defines-close-family/2017/06/29/03eb8a8e-eba6-4749-9fa2-79117be89884_story.html

Like I said what would happen,  it is onerous to all people from these 6 countries that do not have a close relationship, either through family, work or schooling.  ALL others will be excluded.  So if any of those 99.9% are terrorist, they won't be able to get Visas. 

Basically he just repeated what SCOUTUS said in their ruling.  He upped it a little to exclude those who may have family relationship but not that close like grandparents. 

There will be challenges to both the ALL exclusion part as well as to the definition of a close family member.  But other than possible tweaking with the family member definition, SCOTUS will agree to the new plan.  There will be no ruling on religious exclusions, what Trump said or didn't say before the EO, etc.  None of that matters.  SCOTUS will support the Presidents right to limit immigration.Supporters will applaud and opponents will frown.  Trump will win. 

[Alan Klein]

Yeah, not so much...



Mitch McConnell kinda stole that seat from Merrick Garland. Mitch even said he was going to refuse to bring Garland or any nominee before the Senate in the event Clinton won. So, yeah, much like Trump backed into the White House, Gorsuch backed onto the Supreme Court. Neither one actually deserve to be where they are...

It was all legal.  The Constitution grants equal power between the President and the Senate.  Both are required for appointment.  The Democrats should not have changed the filibuster rule regarding appointments of Cabinet Secretaries and lower federal court judges.   That gave the Republicans the moral ground to change the filibuster rule regarding Supreme Court justices.  What goes around comes around. 

[Schewe]

Why do people make such nasty comments about Trump yet expect him to not respond in kind. 

Oh, I don't know...maybe because HE'S THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE LEADER OF THE FREE FRIGGIN' WORLD?

Considering that Spicy has stated that Trump's tweets are official presidential statements, how's this look to you?





There...does that help put it into perspective for you?

BTW the images of the statements are being produced by a Twitter bot ( @RealPressSecBot )that retweets everything Trump tweets as though it's an official WH statement, which it actually is..

Sad!

[Alan Klein]

Jeff,  He hasn't changed.    I agree that he says things that make you queasy.  Me too.  But it seems to work for him.   His supporters like it when he sticks his nose in other people's faces. He did these same things during the run-up to the election and won.   But you go right ahead bringing this up for the next four years when you'll lose again because you're not coming up with any real ideas to help the country. 

[James Clark]

Jeff,  He hasn't changed.    I agree that he says things that make you queasy.  Me too.  But it seems to work for him.   His supporters like it when he sticks his nose in other people's faces. He did these same things during the run-up to the election and won.   But you go right ahead bringing this up for the next four years when you'll lose again because you're not coming up with any real ideas to help the country.

Alan, he's contemptible, and it's embarrassing that *anyone* likes his behavior.  His supporters that do are just as contemptible as he is.

His politics, well, there's some percentage of Americans that think that a reactionary and ignorant far-right-wing agenda is a good idea, and hey - that's the marketplace of ideas and I'm confident that in time people will see the folly in that approach.  But if you think Trumpism is the winning path in 2020, you better hope that he gets muzzled and told to shut the hell up, because aside from the deplorables, everyone is already sick of his nonsense. 

[DeanChriss]

What method are your referring too?  Gorsuch legally became a Supreme Court justice.  Everyone says he is extremely qualified to be Justice.  What does Donald's hair and orange tan have to do with that?  Why do people make such nasty comments about Trump yet expect him to not respond in kind. 

Unlike Obama, Trump is a counter puncher.  It's one of the reasons he won.  It gets leaders from around the world to think twice before doing something that might piss him off.  His antics keep everyone off balance.  Forget what polls say here and overseas.  Ask the leaders of these nations how they intend to deal with Trump and whether he's got them concerned.  Being President is not a popularity contest like Obama thought especially when it comes to foreign affairs.  In any case, his methods honed for 70 years, work for him.   It won him the presidency.

Responding in kind reminds me more of an ill-mannered 10 year old shouting insults on a playground than a U.S. President. Trump sees everything in terms of winners and losers and obviously feels a great need to denigrate anyone he views as a loser. There's some classic psychological theories about people who do that.

While being President is not a popularity contest, it makes no sense that being obnoxious and getting on everyone's bad side is in America's long term best interest. Likewise, keeping the whole world including a most Americans "off balance" seems like an incredibly bad idea. Exactly how does sewing instability help America? If as you say "what goes around comes around", America is in for some bad times based on what Trump is doing now.

[James Clark]

On the other hand...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/06/23/why-need-four-years-trump/mRm0mMoAzjG42yHzQ0AV2N/story.html

[Alan Klein]

Alan, he's contemptible, and it's embarrassing that *anyone* likes his behavior.  His supporters that do are just as contemptible as he is.

His politics, well, there's some percentage of Americans that think that a reactionary and ignorant far-right-wing agenda is a good idea, and hey - that's the marketplace of ideas and I'm confident that in time people will see the folly in that approach.  But if you think Trumpism is the winning path in 2020, you better hope that he gets muzzled and told to shut the hell up, because aside from the deplorables, everyone is already sick of his nonsense. 

I agree.   Keep attacking him.   He's deplorable.   We need civility.

[Schewe]

Well, at least SOME GOP members are not willing to be enablers for the #BigOrangeButthead

Republicans Slam President Trump for 'Face-Lift' Tweet: 'This Isn't Normal'

Several Republicans in Congress called out President Trump on Thursday for a series of tweets they described as "beneath the dignity of your office."

At least seven Republican Senators — including Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham and Maine Sen. Susan Collins — spoke out after Trump targeted Morning Joe co-host Mika Brzezinski on Twitter. Trump called her "crazy" and criticized her appearance, saying he saw her "bleeding badly from a face-lift." The tweet followed a trend of Trump singling out female reporters, often for their appearance.

"This is not okay," Republican Kansas Rep. Lynn Jenkins said. "As a female in politics I am often criticized for my looks. We should be working to empower women."

Other Republican leaders weighed in on social media throughout the day, as did Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan: "Obviously, I don't see that as an appropriate comment."

"I think what we're trying to do around here is improve the tone and civility of the debate, and this obviously doesn't help do that," Ryan said at a press conference, when asked about Trump's tweet.

Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee also called on more Republicans to condemn Trump's remarks."

I want my GOP colleagues to explain to my 3 granddaughters why they think these viciously sexist comments are acceptable from our President," Lee said on Twitter. "This isn’t just about Trump. We already knew he has no respect for women. It’s also about the GOP – which continues to defend & support him. President Trump acts like his words don’t have consequences. Why? Because others in his party come to his defense every single time."

[Alan Klein]

Responding in kind reminds me more of an ill-mannered 10 year old shouting insults on a playground than a U.S. President. Trump sees everything in terms of winners and losers and obviously feels a great need to denigrate anyone he views as a loser. There's some classic psychological theories about people who do that.

While being President is not a popularity contest, it makes no sense that being obnoxious and getting on everyone's bad side is in America's long term best interest. Likewise, keeping the whole world including a most Americans "off balance" seems like an incredibly bad idea. Exactly how does sewing instability help America? If as you say "what goes around comes around", America is in for some bad times based on what Trump is doing now.

Keeping foreign leaders off balance by his instability makes them think twice before they do anything rash. It's hard to second-guess Trump. What is he really going to do? That's why it helps us.  But he's also been strong. He dtew a red line in Syria and prove he's serious by the last raid on Syrian air bases. Don't you think Assad and Putin ate wondering what his next move is going to be? Don't you think they're treading carefully before they do anything too rash? 

[Schewe]

It's hard to second-guess Trump. What is he really going to do? That's why it helps us.

This helps us how? By driving our European allies away, we've driven them into the hands of the Chinese (who swooped in and signed climate deals after Trump pulled us from the Paris Accord). That helps us?

His boorish behavior is not making anybody want to work with Trump. Trump is a laughing stock and so is America by extension...

Image what's gonna happen next week at the G20...all the the world's leaders are exchanging notes on how to handle Trump...puff him up with false praise and ignore what he says because he doesn't have a clue about anything substantive. He doesn't know how to negotiate in a diplomatic way and as a result he gets outplayed by all of the foreign leaders...

Trump is nutz...and he's hellbent on destroying everything–well, he's not–he's into winning bigly, but Bannon wants to tear everything down and rebuild it in his likeness.

You know this right? You understand what Bannon and by extension Trump are trying to do? Look at what they are doing with departments all over his administration:

Trump is crippling his agenda by leaving top jobs unfilled

President Trump has roughly 1,100 top-tier positions to fill across his administration.

So far, he's nominated only 111 of them.

No president in modern history has fallen so far behind in naming heads of agencies, assistant secretaries, ambassadors and other critical leadership roles that require Senate approval.

Heck Trump & Team won't even let Tillerson hire who he wants (instead of staffing with Trump cronies)

TILLERSON blows up at White House aide over staffing decisions

ISENSTADT: “Tillerson blows up at top White House aide,” by Josh Dawsey, Eliana Johnson and Alex Isenstadt: “Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's frustrations with the White House have been building for months. Last Friday, they exploded. The normally laconic Texan unloaded on Johnny DeStefano, the head of the presidential personnel office, for torpedoing proposed nominees to senior State Department posts and for questioning his judgment.

“Tillerson also complained that the White House was leaking damaging information about him to the news media, according to a person familiar with the meeting. Above all, he made clear that he did not want DeStefano’s office to ‘have any role in staffing’ and ‘expressed frustration that anybody would know better’ than he about who should work in his department — particularly after the president had promised him autonomy to make his own decisions and hires, according to a senior White House aide familiar with the conversation.

“The episode stunned other White House officials gathered in chief of staff Reince Priebus’ office, leaving them silent as Tillerson raised his voice. In the room with Tillerson and DeStefano were Priebus, top aide Jared Kushner and Margaret Peterlin, the secretary of state's chief of staff. The encounter, described by four people familiar with what happened, was so explosive that Kushner approached Peterlin afterward and told her that Tillerson’s outburst was completely unprofessional, according to two of the people familiar with the exchange, and told her that they needed to work out a solution.” http://politi.co/2ukaMVf

You are kidding yourself if you think Trump's time in office is anything other than a total clusterf$%ck...and the rest of the world knows it and is lining up ready to take advantage of Trump's exposed weaknesses...

[James Clark]

I agree.   Keep attacking him.   He's deplorable.   We need civility.

I do agree, and honestly, I'm embarrassed at my own reaction to him.  That said, there comes a point when reasonable debate over policy (and as I said, I have zero problem with evidence-based discussion of far-right or far-left policy in the public sphere) is impossible, and Trump and this Congress are well past that point.  From the two-faced games they played to install Gorsuch, to McConnell's absolutely shameless hypocrisy on how he's crafting the ACA "repeal" it's crystal clear that Republicans aren't interested in a policy discussion, but rather in playing to the emotions of their 35% "base" in hopes of retaining power. 

That's not how it's supposed to work, right?  And how any sane American can watch this cluster***k, hear the outrageous, blatant and easily verifiable lies that come from the White house and Congressional leadership every day, and not be offended beyond all rationality is truly beyond me.

[Alan Klein]

This helps us how? By driving our European allies away, we've driven them into the hands of the Chinese (who swooped in and signed climate deals after Trump pulled us from the Paris Accord). That helps us?

His boorish behavior is not making anybody want to work with Trump. Trump is a laughing stock and so is America by extension...

Image what's gonna happen next week at the G20...all the the world's leaders are exchanging notes on how to handle Trump...puff him up with false praise and ignore what he says because he doesn't have a clue about anything substantive. He doesn't know how to negotiate in a diplomatic way and as a result he gets outplayed by all of the foreign leaders...

Trump is nutz...and he's hellbent on destroying everything–well, he's not–he's into winning bigly, but Bannon wants to tear everything down and rebuild it in his likeness.

You know this right? You understand what Bannon and by extension Trump are trying to do? Look at what they are doing with departments all over his administration:

Trump is crippling his agenda by leaving top jobs unfilled

Heck Trump & Team won't even let Tillerson hire who he wants (instead of staffing with Trump cronies)

TILLERSON blows up at White House aide over staffing decisions

You are kidding yourself if you think Trump's time in office is anything other than a total clusterf$%ck...and the rest of the world knows it and is lining up ready to take advantage of Trump's exposed weaknesses...

You're right.  Keep attacking him.  He deserves it.

[Alan Klein]

I do agree, and honestly, I'm embarrassed at my own reaction to him.  That said, there comes a point when reasonable debate over policy (and as I said, I have zero problem with evidence-based discussion of far-right or far-left policy in the public sphere) is impossible, and Trump and this Congress are well past that point.  From the two-faced games they played to install Gorsuch, to McConnell's absolutely shameless hypocrisy on how he's crafting the ACA "repeal" it's crystal clear that Republicans aren't interested in a policy discussion, but rather in playing to the emotions of their 35% "base" in hopes of retaining power. 

That's not how it's supposed to work, right?  And how any sane American can watch this cluster***k, hear the outrageous, blatant and easily verifiable lies that come from the White house and Congressional leadership every day, and not be offended beyond all rationality is truly beyond me.

You mean like all the Russian collusion attacks and lies by the Democrats.  You mean like how the Democrats locked out the Republicans from debates when policy decisions were being made when Obamacare was being written.  You mean how the Democrat Senate leader did away with the filibuster rule so Democrats and Obama could can stuff the lower courts with their federal judges without debate and without being topped by Republicans.

Look, the fact is both sides play political games for power.  The advantage democrats have is that most of the liberal media is on their side and bias the news to help them.

[James Clark]

You mean like all the Russian collusion attacks and lies by the Democrats.  You mean like how the Democrats locked out the Republicans from debates when policy decisions were being made when Obamacare was being written.  You mean how the Democrat Senate leader did away with the filibuster rule so Democrats and Obama could can stuff the lower courts with their federal judges without debate and without being topped by Republicans.

Look, the fact is both sides play political games for power.  The advantage democrats have is that most of the liberal media is on their side and bias the news to help them.

Every single point you just made is demonstrably falsely equivalent.  Well, except for the Russia stuff. That has yet to play out, but if you want we can compare the nonsensical Benghazi garbage to the current investigation if you like.  As for the rest, go research the equivalency of process and the norms prior to this current generation of republican "party of no" types and get back to me on how, exactly, you think both parties are the same. 

(As a point of reference, by the way, I only voted for Obama once and Bill Clinton once.  I'm an honest-to-God independent). Trump and the Tea Partiers are the outliers, not the current crop of Dems. That's not to say that the Dems are innocent - they're not - but they're not half (or more) of the problem.