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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 916984 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1880 on: March 28, 2017, 12:09:24 am »

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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1881 on: March 28, 2017, 12:18:24 am »

Preposterous and indefensible.  I live in a "socialist" country and nobody's putting a gun to my head, metaphorically or realistically. We're smarter than that.

I pay taxes willingly, given the benefits that accrue TO ME as a result. Would you prefer a for-profit system for, say, the fire department?  The police?  Or gawd help us, the prison system?  How about libraries?  Do you really think that in the current capitalism-at-all-costs climate that anyone could countenance public libraries?  Piracy!  Copy protection!  You're stealing my work! Ask Schewe what he thinks about public libraries letting people use his work for free.

Alan, it's not an all-or-nothing thing.  There are degrees, shadings, subtleties. Kinda like midtones.

A clever blend of capitalism and socialism is what gave Norway their trillion dollar bank account and health care for everyone and superb highways relatively devoid of potholes, unlike some other countries I've driven in.





First Norway, they have all that money because they have the good fortune to be sitting on trillions of dollars in oil in the North Sea.  Socialism did not give them that wealth.  Neither did Capitalism.  They found the goose that laid the golden egg. 

Second, I never said there was no place for government.  You're right, it's a matter of degree.  Maybe you don't realize it, but America spends 36.5% of its GDP on government expenditures: federal, state and local.  That's $7 trillion dollars out of $17 trillion.  A huge amount, most of it,  is for social programs.  We're already a socialist country. 

Here's the breakout: Governments at all levels, federal, state, and local, spend about $1.3 trillion a year on pensions, including Social Security and government employee pensions. Governments spend about $1.6 trillion a year on health care, principally Medicare and Medicaid. Governments spend about $1.1 trillion a year on education at all levels, principally at the local government level. The federal government spends about $0.9 trillion a year on defense, including the Departments of Defense, State, and Veterans Affairs. Governments spend $0.5 trillion on welfare programs other than Medicaid. All other spending amounts to $1.8 trillion, including interest on the national debt. The grand total of all the spending is $7.0 trillion, most for social programs.   

The portrayal of America like some Ebenezer Scrooge passing out pennies to its Cratchit citizens is just untrue.  The problem is we can't afford any more.   We're spending $600 billion extra this year over our budget with borrowed and printed money.  We're $20 trillion in debt.  Both democrats and republicans are fearful of even touching these social welfare programs.  They want to get re-elected. 

We're at the crossroads.  If citizens continue to demand more things like "free" medical care, we're going to hit a wall that destroys the country's wealth.  People will demand we cut back on our foreign adventures, reduce the military, leave NATO for the locals to handle.  Even Democrat and Liberals will be that we insist on America First.

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1882 on: March 28, 2017, 12:28:32 am »

Oh. Whenever America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold.  The rest of the world should hope that we keep our head too.  That we somehow get back on track of good governance, good stewardship of our resources. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1883 on: March 28, 2017, 12:30:32 am »

Alan, Social Securit and Medicare are funded by employees and employer contributions, thus not exactly government handouts, no?

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1884 on: March 28, 2017, 01:06:01 am »

Alan, Social Securit and Medicare are funded by employees and employer contributions, thus not exactly government handouts, no?
  Yes that's true.  Certainly I wouldn't want to give up any of those payments now that I'm over 65 :)

But the truth is, it's all part of the budget that is funded with money collected by the government.  Call the funding a tax, or Medicaid and SS payments, it's all money going into the treasury to be redistributed back out to people.  It's money spent on social programs.  It's just collected differently.  And there are "guarantees" for SS payments but as we know, congress can change the rules and have.  Especially now that SS and especially Medicare are having a direct finding problem. Will it be there for our children?   Also, the problem is that the higher collections becomes, there's less money available for investment and capital formation to grow the economy.  Higher SS and Medicare payments are like higher taxes.  They both starve the economy. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1885 on: March 28, 2017, 01:17:14 am »

Also, another issue is state funding.  Many state pensions are in great difficulty.  Will they be there in coming years?  My prediction is that we'll be hit with another recession before Trump's first term ends, especially if he can't get tax reform passed.  We have to get the economy moving better than it is to make up the shortfalls.  The new real estate and stock market bubbles will collapse and we'll be back in 2008.  The Fed's already used up the arrows in its quiver.  They can't lower interest rates any further and printing more money will finally cause heavy inflation.  I doubt if the Chinese will loan us money. 

Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1886 on: March 28, 2017, 01:33:00 am »

Not dumb oil?

Canada has oil and gas, too. More of it than Norway, probably. Unfortunately our management skills are not as good as Norway's and we have enormous national debt like most other countries. It was clever "socialist" management by her government of the oil revenues that gave Norway her lovely bank balance.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1887 on: March 28, 2017, 01:39:34 am »

Just as I was thinking it was just me...

Gibberish Is the White House’s New Normal

Quote
That was then. Now we have a president who, when he speaks, spatters the air with unfinished chunks, many of which do not qualify as sentences, and which do not follow from previous chunks. He does not release words into a stream of consciousness but into a heap. He heaps words on top of words, to overwhelm meaning with vague gestures. He does not think, he lurches.

I noticed it particularly last week in the Time interview:

Quote
Scherer: So you don’t feel like Comey’s testimony in any way takes away from the credibility of the tweets you put out, even with the quotes?

Trump: No, I have, look. I have articles saying it happened. But you have to take a look at what they, they just went out at a news conference.

Scherer: Mitch McConnell has said he’d rather you stop tweeting, that he sees it as a distraction.

Trump: Mitch will speak for himself. Mitch is a wonderful man. Mitch should speak for himself.

Trump: Now the problem, the thing is, I’m not sure they are watching anything other than that, let’s see members of Donald Trump transition team, possibly, oh this just came out.

Trump: I took a lot of heat when I said Brexit was going to pass. Don’t forget, Obama said that UK will go to the back of the line, and I talked about Sweden, and may have been somewhat different, but the following day, two days later, they had a massive riot in Sweden, exactly what I was talking about, I was right about that.

Trump: And then TIME magazine, which treats me horribly, but obviously I sell, I assume this is going to be a cover too, have I set the record? I guess, right? Covers, nobody’s had more covers.

Trump: But the real story here is, who released Gen. Flynn’s name? Who released, who released my conversations with Australia, and who released my conversation with Mexico? To me, Michael, that’s the story, these leakers, they are disgusting. These are horrible people.

Scherer: And apparently there is an investigation into that as well.

Trump: Well should be, because that’s where the whole, who would think that you are speaking to the head of Mexico, the head of Australia, or Gen. Flynn, who was, they are not supposed to release that. That is the most confidential stuff. Classified. That’s classified. You go to prison when you release stuff like that. And who would release that? The real story is, they have to work, intelligence has to work on finding out who are the leakers. Because you know what? When things get involved with North Korea and all the problems we have there, in the Middle East, I mean, that information cannot be leaked out, and it will be by this, this same, and these people were here in the Obama years, because he had plenty of leakers also.

Trump: I inherited a mess in the Middle East, and a mess with North Korea, I inherited a mess with jobs, despite the statistics, you know, my statistics are even better, but they are not the real statistics because you have millions of people that can’t get a job, OK. And I inherited a mess on trade. I mean we have many, you can go up and down the ladder. But that’s the story. Hey look, in the meantime, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Say hello to everybody, OK?

I like that I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Yeah, he's president...but I wouldn't say things are going well :~(

And yes, this article link goes to billmoyers.com which is about as far left as breitbart.com is to the right. Ya gotta be balanced in one's media consumption, right :~)

Bill even has a special section just for a #TRUMP RESISTANCE PLAN
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1888 on: March 28, 2017, 01:55:51 am »

Ya know, when you go onto Twitter to lambast the president (Obama at the time) ya might want to explain that maybe it's tough to understand what the president goes through and explain why maybe you were wrong?

Donald J. Trump  ✔@realDonaldTrump
@BarackObama played golf yesterday. Now he heads to a 10 day vacation in Martha's Vineyard. Nice work ethic.
12:36 PM - 15 Aug 2011

Fast forward to last year when Trump says: If I'm POTUS I don't think I'd see any of my golf courses again, I just want to stay in WH and "work in my ass off"

So now of course, it turns into a story because, well Trump made it one: Donald Trump’s golfing is a political problem thanks to Donald Trump

It's sorta funny because now Fox News gets excited when Trump stays in Washington over a weekend...

Fox News  ✔@FoxNews
News Alert: @POTUS spending weekend working at the White House.
4:30 PM - 26 Mar 2017

Note to mention the money he saved this weekend by not going to Mar-a-Lago.

And speaking of Mar-a-Lago, the Democrats decided to put forth a bill Making Access Records Available to Lead American Government Openness Act. Yes, the "MAR-A-LAGO Act."

Democrats introduce the 'MAR-A-LAGO Act'

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The legislation would require the publication of White House visitor logs, something that was done regularly by the Obama administration but has since ended since President Trump took office. It would also mandate the release of visitor logs at other locations where the president conducts business -- for example, Mar-a-Lago, Trump's Florida resort that he has recently called the Southern White House.

Introduced by Sens. Tom Udall of New Mexico, Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island and Tom Carper of Delaware and Rep. Mike Quigley of Illinois, it comes after the president spent five weekends in Mar-a-Lago since his inauguration.

Think it'll pass? Highly unlikely...think it'll irk The Donald? Very likely :~)
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1889 on: March 28, 2017, 02:03:54 am »

It was clever "socialist" management by her government of the oil revenues that gave Norway her lovely bank balance.

Norway also resisted the temptation to enter the European Union that Great Briton is now leaving...

So why is Norway rich?

Quote
Norway turned down the Common Market in a referendum in 1972 and turned it down again when it had become the EU in 1994 - each time by about 53 per cent to 47 per cent.

Norway is prosperous, happy and free. Its countryside is neat and well husbanded, its towns and cities orderly and comfortable. Its people shame much of Europe by their command of foreign languages, and it runs its own affairs, trading cheerfully with the EU.

Its fisheries and farms have not been wrecked or bankrupted, as ours have, by 'Common' policies that suit France, Germany or Spain. Its supreme court is in Oslo, not Luxembourg, where ours is.

Its monarchy is not menaced by a European president and its flag doesn't have to fly alongside the EU's yellow stars.

In the 30 years from 1971 to 2001, its gross domestic product rose by 177 per cent. Denmark, which has been in the EU for much of that period, increased its GDP by 75 per cent and the UK, which has been in the EU almost the whole period, saw an increase of 98 per cent.

This suggests, at least, that non-membership has not held Norway back.

Norway runs its own armed forces inside Nato, and had its own policy on the Iraq war. It makes its own laws, keeps its own currency and sets its own interest rates. It is a real nation which controls its own destiny.

Yeah, must just be the oil huh? Good governing was just a side benefit?
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1890 on: March 28, 2017, 05:18:55 am »

Canada has oil and gas, too. More of it than Norway, probably. Unfortunately our management skills are not as good as Norway's and we have enormous national debt like most other countries. It was clever "socialist" management by her government of the oil revenues that gave Norway her lovely bank balance.

Very true! And it seems that you don't need to be big to enjoy higher prosperity. The smaller countries (Norway, Finland, New Zeeland) with better management of existing resources and infrastructure, coupled with controlled population growth fare much better than Canada or USA. Surprisingly, Canada's official prosperity policy is still anchored around growing the population rather than to foster manufacturing and research.


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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1891 on: March 28, 2017, 05:52:20 am »

Back to Trump.
Unpredictably, but not uncharacteristically, he had a change of heart about Angela. Does he think she needs his advice how to win elections?


I thought that, adding to the insults directed at Angela Merkel during the election campaign, this was an awkward moment, and a bit disrespectful towards Angela Merkel, but that that would be the end of it.

Donald Trump refuses to shake Angela Merkel's hand:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-angela-merkel-shake-hand-refuse-a7635911.html

Nice summary: John Oliver: 'Donald Trump treated Angela Merkel like a drunk masturbating in a subway car'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pf2tgQKsZU

But apparently, things were even worse behind the scenes.

Donald Trump printed out made-up £300bn Nato invoice and handed it to Angela Merkel:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-angela-merkel-nato-bill-defence-ignore-usa-germany-spending-a7650636.html

Trump’s awkward meeting with Angela Merkel just got more cringeworthy:
https://thinkprogress.org/trumps-awkward-meeting-with-angela-merkel-just-got-more-cringeworthy-853ca0b84ca4#.wqodxn92y

Luckily Angela Merkel doesn't get intimidated by such provocations, which apparently was the idea behind the idiotic plan.


March 27: US President Donald Trump congratulated German Chancellor Angela Merkel on a surprise local election win that bolstered her reelection bid. The White House said the two leaders spoke by phone after the tiny southwestern state of Saarland backed Merkel in a vote Sunday.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/03/trump-congratulates-merkel-modi-election-wins/
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1892 on: March 28, 2017, 08:20:05 am »

Back to Trump.
Unpredictably, but not uncharacteristically, he had a change of heart about Angela. Does he think she needs his advice how to win elections?

...

March 27: US President Donald Trump congratulated German Chancellor Angela Merkel on a surprise local election win that bolstered her reelection bid. The White House said the two leaders spoke by phone after the tiny southwestern state of Saarland backed Merkel in a vote Sunday.

Well, it could have been labeled as fake news, if it weren't so Trumpishly strange. It's a regional election, and Angela Merkel was not a candidate one could vote for. Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer as leader of the CDU (Merkel's party), was. So while it was a nice signal for Merkel's party, in an election race that's to finish on September 24th later this year, why the congratulations? German media qualify it as "unusual" (especially after the reception Merkel got in the USA).

Cheers,
Bart
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1893 on: March 28, 2017, 09:37:24 am »

Surprisingly, Canada's official prosperity policy is still anchored around growing the population rather than to foster manufacturing and research.

Unfortunately, this is what will really tighten the noise.  In the USA, all pensions and social programs are based off of the premise that the next generation will be bigger then the previous. 

With the average family having 1.8 children, that is no longer the case, and unfortunately so many unions just don't want to accept the fact that their pensions plans are just not practical anymore. 

Things will come crashing down. 

Anyway, I think some need to learn the actual definition of words.  In pure Socialism Jeff, the government owns all businesses and property and manages those assets for the people.  (Marx's) Communism is different only in the premise that the people own all and a government is formed to manage those assets.  In both, central planning is key, which always works so well like in 1960s China, and their is little reason to over produce since you only produce what you need. 

In a pure socialism regime, you would loose your studio; in communism you would still own part of it, about 1/3.5M worth, but would loose management of it. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 09:41:50 am by JoeKitchen »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1894 on: March 28, 2017, 09:43:58 am »

Unfortunately, this is what will really tighten the noise.  In the USA, all pensions and social programs are based off of the premise that the next generation will be bigger then the previous.
..
Things will come crashing down.

Classic pyramid scheme! And not only in USA.
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1895 on: March 28, 2017, 10:06:22 am »

In a pure socialism regime, you would loose your studio; in communism you would still own part of it, about 1/3.5M worth, but would loose management of it.
In a pure capitalistic society only a limited few will have a studio, the rest will live in a shantytown or be at the mercy of the happy few to be able to live somewhere dry and warm without the chance of ownership and at a high cost.

Fortunately pure capitalism and pure socialism doesn't exists in many developed countries, it's always a mix, relatively far away from these extremes, that fluctuates in time (which I think is a good thing)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1896 on: March 28, 2017, 10:07:29 am »

Norway also resisted the temptation to enter the European Union that Great Briton is now leaving...

So why is Norway rich?

Yeah, must just be the oil huh? Good governing was just a side benefit?
No one says the Norwegians aren't smart.  They did stay out of the EU.  But there are only 5 million Norwegians in Norway. (there are 4.5 million in the USA).  They could fit into Brooklyn and Queens.  They have US$1 trillion dollars or more in oil reserves and their oil fund is about US$200,000 per person.  So sure, it's easier to govern and live well when you're loaded and you have a homogenous culture and people with a small population. 

JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1897 on: March 28, 2017, 10:09:09 am »

In a pure capitalistic society only a limited few will have a studio, the rest will live in a shantytown or be at the mercy of the happy few to be able to live somewhere dry and warm without the chance of ownership and at a high cost.

Fortunately pure capitalism and pure socialism doesn't exists in many developed countries, it's always a mix, relatively far away from these extremes, that fluctuates in time (which I think is a good thing)

Looking at the pure, or near pure, socialist countries, shantytowns is all I see, not to mention only cronies get a chance to make money.  The rest are all equal, equally poor.

Look back to the article Jeff post about Bolivia, which he has yet to counter my points from it.  It clearly states contracts are given on a no-bid basis to friends of politicians.  Does not sound very pleasant, or fair. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 10:18:46 am by JoeKitchen »
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1898 on: March 28, 2017, 10:09:52 am »

Looking at the pure, or near pure, socialist countries, shantytowns is all I see.
Can you name a few?
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pieter, aka pegelli

JoeKitchen

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #1899 on: March 28, 2017, 10:12:34 am »

Can you name a few?
DPRK, Venezuela, Mao's China

Remember, I said pure, or near pure, socialism.

As Jeff has pointed out in his own posts, the Nordic countries are mostly capitalistic (even more so then the USA, although he did not explain how) with some markets socialized. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 10:18:08 am by JoeKitchen »
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