Trump II

[Robert Roaldi]

I get such a kick out of "they all lie, they're politicians", as if the level of lying was equivalent.

Trump stood there at a Republican debate and claimed that he saw a doctor vaccinate a baby using a horse needle in a 2 year baby who later become autistic. That's the intellectual equivalent of claiming that the earth is flat.

It's pathetic.

[Alan Klein]

I get such a kick out of "they all lie, they're politicians", as if the level of lying was equivalent.

Trump stood there at a Republican debate and claimed that he saw a doctor vaccinate a baby using a horse needle in a 2 year baby who later become autistic. That's the intellectual equivalent of claiming that the earth is flat.

It's pathetic.

Lies Presidents tell:

Obama: "Benghazi attack on the embassy was caused by a movie."  (Hollywood almost awarded it on Oscar for Best Picture.)
Obama: "Under the ACA you'll be able to keep your doctor and your insurance plan.  Cost for insurance will go down $2500."  (It's a good thing the ex-President will get free medical care.)

Clinton: "There were no classified emails on my private server."  (don't worry about it because she bleached her server drives absolutely clean)
Clinton: "I  came under sniper fire in Bosnia during my 2008 campaign."  (luckily she was wearing body armor under her tan pants suit.

[Schewe]

Lies Presidents tell:

Really, you want to go there? BTW, Clinton wasn't actually president...almost but the Russians beat her. As for the lies of Presidents, wow, you got two whoppers (although truth be told I'm pretty sure it was Clinton not Obama that blamed Benghazi on the video).

So, compare your paltry list of Lies Presidents tell to Trump...The First 100 Lies: The Trump Team’s Flurry Of Falsehoods

(sorry, due to the length of this post, I'll have to split it into 2 posts)


PART ONE

All presidents lie, but lying so brazenly and so frequently about even silly factoids like his golf game has put Trump in his own category. His disregard for the truth is reflected in his top aides, who have inflated easily disproved figures like the attendance at his inauguration and even cited terror attacks that never happened.

The Huffington Post tracked the public remarks of Trump and his aides to compile a list of 100 incidents of egregious falsehoods. Still, it is likely the administration has made dozens of other misleading and exaggerated claims.

1- White House press secretary Sean Spicer falsely claimed the crowd on the National Mall was “largest audience to ever witness an inauguration.” (Jan. 21)

2- Trump falsely claimed that the crowd for his swearing-in stretched down the National Mall to the Washington Monument and totaled more than 1 million people. (Jan. 21)

3- As Trump fondly recalled his Inauguration Day, he said it stopped raining “immediately” when he began his speech. A light rain continued to fall throughout the address. (Jan. 21)

4- During his speech at CIA headquarters, Trump claimed the media made up his feud with the agency. In fact, he started it by comparing the intelligence community to “Nazi Germany.” (Jan. 21)[/li][/list]

5- During his speech at CIA headquarters, Trump repeated the claim that he “didn’t want to go into Iraq.” He told Howard Stern in 2002 that he supported the Iraq War. (Jan. 21)

6- During his speech at CIA headquarters, Trump said he had the “all-time record in the history of Time Magazine. … I’ve been on it for 15 times this year.” Trump had been featured on the magazine a total of 11 times. (Jan. 21)

7- Trump claimed that his inauguration drew 11 million more viewers than Barack Obama’s in 2013. It didn’t, and viewership for Obama’s first inauguration, in 2009, was even higher. (Jan. 22)

8- Spicer said during his first press briefing that there has been a “dramatic expansion of the federal workforce in recent years.” This is false. (Jan. 23)

9- While pushing back against the notion of a rift between the CIA and Trump, Spicer claimed the president had received a “five-minute standing ovation” at the agency’s headquarters. He did not. The attendees were also never asked to sit down. (Jan. 23)

10- Spicer claimed that “tens of millions of people” watched the inauguration online. In fact, about 4.6 million did. (Jan. 23)

11- Trump told CBN News that 84 percent Cuban-Americans voted for him. It’s not clear where Trump got that number. According to the Pew Research Center, 54 percent of Cuban-Americans in Florida voted for him. (Jan. 23)

12- While meeting with congressional leaders, Trump repeated a debunked claim that he only lost the national popular vote because of widespread voter fraud. (Jan. 24)

13- In remarks with business leaders at the White House, Trump said, “I’m a very big person when it comes to the environment. I have received awards on the environment.” There is no evidence that Trump has received such awards. (Jan. 24)

14- In signing an executive memo ordering the construction of the Keystone pipeline, Trump said the project would create 28,000 construction jobs. According to The Washington Post Fact Checker, the pipeline would create an estimated 16,000 jobs, most of which are not construction jobs. (Jan. 25)

15- Spicer said in a press briefing that Trump received more electoral votes than any Republican since Ronald Reagan. George H.W. Bush won 426 electoral votes in 1988, more than Trump’s 304. (Jan. 24)

16- In remarks he gave at the Homeland Security Department, Trump said Immigration and Customs Enforcement and border patrol agents “unanimously endorsed me for president.” That’s not true. (Jan. 25)

17- Spicer said during a press briefing that a draft executive order on CIA prisons was not a “White House document.” Citing three administration officials, The New York Times reported that the White House had circulated the draft order among national security staff members. (Jan. 25)

18- In an interview with ABC, Trump again claimed he “had the biggest audience in the history of inaugural speeches.” False. (Jan. 25)

19- Trump claimed during an interview with ABC that the applause he received at CIA headquarters “was the biggest standing ovation since Peyton Manning had won the Super Bowl.” It wasn’t even a standing ovation. (Jan. 25)

20- In an interview with ABC, Trump attacked the Affordable Care Act and said there are “millions of people that now aren’t insured anymore.” Twenty million people have gained health coverage because of the law so far. The estimated 2 million people who did not qualify under the law received waivers that kept the plans going until the end of 2017. (Jan. 25)

21- At the GOP retreat in Philadelphia, Trump claimed he and the president of Mexico “agreed” to cancel their scheduled meeting. Enrique Peña Nieto said he had decided to cancel it. (Jan. 26)

22- At the GOP retreat in Philadelphia, Trump said the national homicide rate was “horribly increasing.” It is down significantly. (Jan. 26)

23- On Twitter, Trump repeated his false claim that 3 million votes were illegal during the election. (Jan. 27)

24- In an interview on “Good Morning America,” Trump counselor Kellyanne Conway said Tiffany Trump, the president’s daughter, had told her she was “not registered to vote in two states.” A local election official confirmed to NBC News twice that the younger Trump indeed was. (Jan. 27)

25- Trump said he predicted the so-called “Brexit” when he was in Scotland the day before the vote. He was actually there the day after the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. (Jan. 27)

26- Trump claimed The New York Times lost subscribers “because their readers even like me.” The Times experienced a sharp uptick in subscribers after Election Day. (Jan. 27)

27- Trump claimed two people were fatally shot in Chicago during Obama’s last speech as president. That didn’t happen. (Jan. 27)

28- Trump claimed that under previous administrations, “if you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible.” In fact, almost as many Christian refugees were admitted to the U.S. as Muslim refugees in fiscal year 2016. (Jan. 27)

29- Trump defended the swiftness of his immigration order on the grounds that terrorists would have rushed into the country if he had given the world a week’s notice. Even if terrorists wanted to infiltrate the refugee program or the visa program, they would have had to wait months or even years while being vetted to get into the country. (Jan. 30)

30- The White House maintained that Trump’s immigration order did not apply to green card holders and that was “the guidance from the beginning.” Initially, the White House said the order did include green card holders. (Jan. 30)

31- Trump said his immigration order was “similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months.” Obama’s policy slowed resettlement of refugees from Iraq, but did not keep them from entering the country. Moreover, it flagged the seven countries included in Trump’s order as places the U.S. considered dangerous to visit. (Jan. 30)

32- Spicer said that “by and large,” Trump has been “praised” for his statement commemorating the Holocaust. Every major Jewish organization, including the Republican Jewish Coalition, criticized it for omitting any specific references to the Jewish people or anti-Semitism. (Jan. 30)

33- A Trump administration official called the implementation of Trump’s travel ban a “massive success story.” Not true ― young children, elderly people and U.S. green card holders were detained for hours. Some were deported upon landing in the U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) even criticized the rollout as “confusing.” (Jan. 30)

34- Spicer equated White House adviser Steve Bannon’s appointment to the National Security Council Principals Committee with Obama adviser David Axelrod attending meetings pertaining to foreign policy. Axelrod, however, never sat on the Principals Committee. (Jan. 30)

35- Spicer said people would have “flooded” into the country with advance notice of Trump’s immigration order. Not true. (Jan. 30)

36- Spicer insisted that only 109 travelers were detained because of Trump’s immigration order. More than 1,000 legal permanent residents had to get waivers before entering the U.S. An estimated 90,000 people in total were affected by the ban. (Jan. 30)

37- Trump tweeted the false claim that “only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning.” (Jan. 30)

38- Trump took credit for cutting $600 million from the F-35 program. But Lockheed Martin already had planned for the cost reductions for the next generation fighter plane. (Jan. 31)

39- Trump accused China of manipulating its currency by playing “the money market. They play the devaluation market, and we sit there like a bunch of dummies.” According to The Washington Post, the United States is no longer being hurt by China’s currency manipulation, and China is no longer devaluing its currency. (Jan. 31)

40- In defending the GOP’s blockade of Merrick Garland, Obama’s nominee to the Supreme Court, Spicer said no president had ever nominated a justice “so late” in his term. It previously happened three times. (Jan. 31)

41- Spicer repeatedly insisted during a press conference that Trump’s executive order on immigration was “not a ban.” During a Q&A event the night before, however, Spicer himself referred to the order as a “ban.” So did the president. (Jan. 31)

42- White House officials denied reports that Trump told Peña Nieto that U.S. forces would handle the “bad hombres down there” if the Mexican authorities don’t. It confirmed the conversation the next day, maintaining the remark was meant to be “lighthearted.” (Jan. 31)

43- Trump claimed that Delta, protesters and the tears of Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) were to blame for the problems over his travel ban. In fact, his administration was widely considered to blame for problems associated with its rollout. (Jan. 31)

44- Trump said the Obama administration “agreed to take thousands of illegal immigrants from Australia.” The deal actually involved 1,250 refugees. (Feb. 1)

45- Trump said the U.S. “has the most generous immigration system in the world.” Not really. (Feb. 2)

46- Trump said the U.S. was giving Iran $150 billion for “nothing” under the Iranian nuclear deal. The money was already Iran’s to begin with, and the deal blocks Iran from building a nuclear bomb. (Feb. 2)

47- Spicer called a U.S. raid in Yemen “very, very well thought out and executed effort” and described it as a “successful operation by all standards.” U.S. military officials told Reuters the operation was approved “without sufficient intelligence, ground support, or adequate backup preparations.” (Feb. 2)

48- Spicer said that Iran had attacked a U.S. naval vessel, as part of his argument defending the administration’s bellicose announcement that Iran is “on notice.” In fact, a suspected Houthi rebel ship attacked a Saudi vessel. (Feb. 2)

49- In his meeting with union leaders at the White House, Trump claimed he won union households. He actually only won white union households. (Feb. 2)

50- Conway cited the “Bowling Green massacre” to defend Trump’s travel ban. It never happened. (Feb. 3)

END PART ONE

[Schewe]

BEGIN PART TWO

51- Conway said citing the nonexistent “Bowling Green massacre” to defend Trump’s immigration order was an accidental “slip.” But she had mentioned it twice prior to that interview. (Feb. 3)

52- Trump approvingly shared a story on his official Facebook page which claimed that Kuwait issued a visa ban for five Muslim-majority countries. Kuwait issued a statement categorically denying it. (Feb. 3)

53- Trump claimed people are “pouring in” after his immigration order was temporarily suspended. Travelers and refugees cannot simply rush into the U.S. without extensive and lengthy vetting. (Feb. 5)

54- After a judge halted his immigration ban, Trump claimed that “anyone, even with bad intentions, can now come into the U.S.” Not true. (Feb. 5)

55- Spicer said nationwide protests of Trump are not like protests the tea party held, and called them “a very paid AstroTurf-type movement.” Although Democrats have capitalized on the backlash against Trump by organizing, the massive rallies across dozens of cities across the country ―  which in some cases have been spontaneous ― suggests they are part of an organic phenomenon. (Feb. 6)

56- During an interview with Fox News before the Super Bowl, Trump repeated his debunked claim of widespread voter fraud during the presidential election. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Republican and Democratic state officials have said so, as have Trump’s own campaign attorneys. (Feb. 6)

57- During an interview with Fox News before the Super Bowl, Trump repeated his false claim that he has “been against the war in Iraq from the beginning.” (Feb. 6)

58- Conway said she would not appear on CNN’s “State of the Union” because of “family” reasons. CNN, however, said the White House offered Conway as an alternative to Vice President Mike Pence and that the network had “passed” because of concerns about her “credibility.” (Feb. 6)

59- Spicer claimed CNN “retracted” its explanation of why it declined to take Conway for a Sunday show appearance. CNN said it never did so. (Feb. 6)

60- Trump cited attacks in Boston, Paris, Orlando, Florida, and Nice, France, as examples of terrorism the media has not covered adequately. “In many cases, the very, very dishonest press doesn’t want to report it,” he said at CENTCOM. Those attacks garnered wall-to-wall television coverage, as well as thousands of news articles in print and online. (Feb. 6)

61- The White House released a more expansive list of terrorist attacks it believed “did not receive adequate attention from Western media sources.” Again, the list includes attacks that were widely covered by the media. (Feb. 6)

62- Trump said sanctuary cities “breed crime.” FBI data indicates that crime in sanctuary cities is generally lower than in nonsanctuary cities. (Feb. 6)

63- Trump claimed The New York Times was “forced to apologize to its subscribers for the poor reporting it did on my election win.” The paper has not issued such an apology. (Feb. 6)

64- Trump claimed the murder rate is the highest it’s been in 47 years. The murder rate rose 10.8 percent across the United States in 2015, but it’s far lower than it was 30 to 40 years ago. (Feb. 7)

65- Spicer explained that the delay in repealing Obamacare was a result of the White House wanting to work with Congress. Unlike during the Obama administration, he asserted, the legislature ― not the White House ― was taking the lead on health care. Various congressional committees worked on drafting multiple versions of the bill that would become the Affordable Care Act ― a lengthy process that took over a year. (Feb. 7)

66- Trump accused Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) of misrepresenting “what Judge Neil Gorsuch told him” in response to the president’s attacks against the judiciary. Gorsuch called Trump’s tweets attacking federal judges “demoralizing.” A spokesman for Gorsuch confirmed the judge’s remarks. (Feb. 9)

67- Trump has repeatedly said he doesn’t watch CNN. But he had to in order to see and offer and opinion on the network’s interview with Blumenthal. (Feb. 9)

68- Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has said that phone calls he made to Russia prior to Trump’s inauguration were not related to sanctions. According to a Washington Post report, however, Flynn held private discussions with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, before Trump took office, suggesting that sanctions against Moscow would be eased by the incoming administration. (Feb. 9)

69- Trump took credit for Ford’s decision not to open an auto factory in Mexico and instead expand its Michigan plant. The company said Trump was not responsible for its decision. (Feb. 9)

70- Trump told a room full of politicians that “thousands” of “illegal” voters had been driven into New Hampshire to cast ballots. There is no evidence of such a claim. (Feb. 11)

71- During an interview with ABC’s “This Week,” White House senior policy aide Stephen Miller falsely said the “issue of busing voters into New Hampshire is widely known by anyone who’s worked in New Hampshire politics.” Again, not true. (Feb. 11)

72- Miller cited the “astonishing” statistic that 14 percent of noncitizens are registered to vote. The study the stat is based on has been highly contested. (Feb. 11)

73- Trump said Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) was “cut off” on CNN for “using the term fake news the describe the network.” The senator was joking and he was not cut off. (Feb. 12)

74- Trump accused the media of refusing to report on “big crowds of enthusiastic supporters lining the road” in Florida. There were a few supporters, but they were vastly outnumbered by hundreds of protesters. (Feb. 12)

75- White House officials told reporters that Flynn decided on his own to resign. However, Spicer said during a press briefing that the president asked Flynn to resign. (Feb. 13)

76- Trump denied in a January interview that he or anyone on his campaign had any contact with Russia prior to the election. However, The New York Times and CNN both reported that Trump campaign officials and associates “had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials” before Nov. 8. (Feb. 15)

77- Spicer denied in a daily briefing that anyone on the Trump campaign had had any contact with Russian officials. (Feb. 15)

78- Trump complained he “inherited a mess” upon being elected to office. The stock market is experiencing record highs, the economy is stable and growing, and unemployment is low. (Feb. 16)

79- Trump disputed the notion that his administration is experiencing turmoil, telling reporters it is working like a “fine-tuned machine.” His poorly executed travel ban has been suspended by the courts, a Cabinet nominee was forced to withdraw his nomination, and Trump’s national security adviser resigned after less than four weeks on the job. (Feb. 16)

80- Trump said his 306 Electoral College votes was the biggest electoral votes victory since Ronald Reagan. He actually received 304 electoral votes. Moreover, Obama got 332 votes in 2012. (Feb. 16)

81- Trump said his first weeks in office “represented an unprecedented month of action.” Obama accomplished much more during his first weeks in office. (Feb. 16)

82- Defending himself from charges of hypocrisy on the matter of leaks ― which he frequently celebrated when they pertained to his campaign opposition but now denounces ― Trump said that WikiLeaks does not publicize “classified information.” It does, often anonymously. (Feb. 16)

83- Trump repeated his claim that Hillary Clinton gave 20 percent of American uranium to the Russians in a deal during her tenure as secretary of state. Not true. (Feb. 16)

84- Trump said drugs are “becoming cheaper than a candy bar.” They are not. (Feb. 16)

85- Trump said his administration had a “very smooth rollout of the travel ban.” His immigration caused chaos at the nation’s airports and has been suspended by the courts. (Feb. 16)

86- Trump said the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals is in “chaos” and “turmoil.” It is not. (Feb. 16)

87- Flynn lied to FBI investigators in a Jan. 24 interview about whether he discussed sanctions with Russian officials prior to Trump’s inauguration, according to The Washington Post. (Feb. 16)

88- Trump falsely suggested at a Florida rally that Sweden had suffered a terror attack the night before his speech. It had not, and Trump was likely referring to a Fox News segment on crime in Sweden. (Feb. 18)

89- During his Florida rally, Trump repeated his false claim that the United States has already let in thousands of people who “there was no way to vet.” Refugees undergo the most rigorous vetting process of any immigrants admitted to the United States, often waiting upwards of two years to be cleared for entry. (Feb. 18)

90- White House chief of staff Reince Priebus said in a “Fox News Sunday” interview that Trump “has accomplished more in the first 30 days than people can remember.” Obama accomplished much more during his first weeks in office. (Feb. 19)

91- Trump said during his campaign that he would only play golf with heads of state and business leaders, not friends and celebrities like Obama did. Trump has golfed with world leaders like Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. Most recently, however, he hit the links with golf pro Rory McIlroy, International Sports Management’s Nick Mullen and his friend Rich Levine. (Feb. 19)

92- A White House spokesperson told reporters that Trump only played a “couple” of holes at his golf resort in Florida. A day later, as reports came out saying the president had played 18 holes with Mcllroy, the White House admitted he played “longer.” (Feb. 19)

93- Trump said the media is “trying to say large scale immigration in Sweden is working out just beautifully. NOT!” Sweden’s crime rate has fallen in recent years, and experts there do not think its immigration policies are linked to crime. (Feb. 20)

94- Spicer said Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) asked for a meeting with Trump at the White House. John Weaver, a former campaign aide of the governor, said the president asked for the meeting. (Feb. 21)

95- Vice President Mike Pence called Obamacare a “job killer.” Overall, job growth has been steady since it was signed into law. And the number of unwilling part-time jobs has also gone down, contrary to GOP claims. (Feb. 22)

96- Trump claimed that he negotiated $1 billion in savings to develop two new Boeing Co. jets to serve as the next Air Force One. The Air Force can’t account for that number. (Feb. 22)

97- During a meeting with the nation’s CEOs at the White House, Trump claimed his new economic adviser Gary Cohn “paid $200 million in tax” to take a job at the White House. Cohn didn’t have to pay taxes, he had to sell more than $200 million of Goldman Sachs stock. (Feb. 23)

98- Trump claimed there were “six blocks” worth of people waiting to get into the Conservative Political Action Conference to see him. People filled only  three overflow rooms. (Feb. 24)

99- At CPAC, Trump said that Obamacare covers “very few people.” Nearly 20 million people have gotten health insurance under the law. (Feb. 24)

100- At CPAC, Trump said companies like Intel were making business investments in the United States because of his election. The company planned their new investments before the election. (Feb. 24)

END PART TWO

You'll note that the list ends on Feb 24 and doesn't include some of the more recent doozies like Obama wiretapped Trump Tower or that the jobs report may have been false before but were real now.

So...yes, politicians lie...sometimes they don't mean to but time turns them into lier. Trump isn't a politician as this week's healthcare debacle shows. Trump is a con man and a fraud...

Why Lying Is So Easy for Trump

For New York developers, blatant deception isn't just good for business—it's completely legal.
Political pundits, staggered by Donald Trump’s exaggerated boasts, false promises, and outright lies, have offered various theories for what’s wrong with him. Does he suffer from mental illness? Is he experiencing early-onset dementia? Andrew Sullivan recently argued in New York magazine that Trump’s chronic, stubborn dishonesty—unlike normal political fibbing—is “delusional” and “deranged,” a frightening sign that the president is living in an alternative universe. “There is no anchor any more,” Sullivan writes. “At the core of the administration of the most powerful country on earth, there is, instead, madness.”

But such dramatic theories miss the simplest explanation for Trump’s lying: He’s a real estate developer from New York City. Lying isn’t a personal failure. It’s a business model.

[Schewe]

The Democrats wanted to keep Obamacare so you would have complained about the Republicans if it was repealed.  So why are you complaining now that it wasn't?  Are you ever happy?

To be clear, I wasn't all that happy about ACA...but it did do some really good things like eliminate the preexisting condition exclusion–which is a big deal for me since I have preexisting conditions. The GOP bill did a lot of bad things...but I have to ask, do you even know what was in the GOP plan that the GOP couldn't pass?

What's inside the Republican health care bill?

The irony is that it was the conservative group the House Freedom Caucus (AKA Tea Party) that sunk the bill. They refused to accept the compromise bill that then the moderate GOP couldn't stomach.

So, Trump has learned a lesson...being CEO of a closely held inc is not good on the job training for being the leader of the free world.

And the way it looks, moving onto tax reform is gonna be even harder than healthcare because, well, he lost all the saving the GOP healthcare bill would have provided so now he's gonna have to cut even more out of the budget which already is a sore point for the GOP and the next aim of the democratic resistance.

If you would have told me on Jan 20th that the GOP would be scared to repeal and replace the ACA because of the resistance of their hometown constituents town hall meetings I would not have believed that liberals could have shut Trump down so handily...

Just wait till the resistance takes on the Trump budget :~)

[Petrus]

Trump is so entertaining that I had to take up the Washington Post subscription for a year (it will be enough to see this through). Like to read the funnies first thing in the morning.

Like this article describing his telephone call to WP reporter Robert Costa. A 50-word vocabulary moron trying to run a country?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/president-trump-called-my-cellphone-to-say-that-the-health-care-bill-was-dead/2017/03/24/8282c3f6-10ce-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?utm_term=.c6439ce7511a

If you can not link to it it is worth the $1 they ask for the first 8 weeks.

[jeremyrh]

Trump is so entertaining that I had to take up the Washington Post subscription for a year (it will be enough to see this through). Like to read the funnies first thing in the morning.

Like this article describing his telephone call to WP reporter Robert Costa. A 50-word vocabulary moron trying to run a country?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/president-trump-called-my-cellphone-to-say-that-the-health-care-bill-was-dead/2017/03/24/8282c3f6-10ce-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?utm_term=.c6439ce7511a

If you can not link to it it is worth the $1 they ask for the first 8 weeks.

Hilarious. Worth a dollar of anyone's money :-)

[Alan Klein]

To be clear, I wasn't all that happy about ACA...but it did do some really good things like eliminate the preexisting condition exclusion–which is a big deal for me since I have preexisting conditions. The GOP bill did a lot of bad things...but I have to ask, do you even know what was in the GOP plan that the GOP couldn't pass?

What's inside the Republican health care bill?

The irony is that it was the conservative group the House Freedom Caucus (AKA Tea Party) that sunk the bill. They refused to accept the compromise bill that then the moderate GOP couldn't stomach.

So, Trump has learned a lesson...being CEO of a closely held inc is not good on the job training for being the leader of the free world.

And the way it looks, moving onto tax reform is gonna be even harder than healthcare because, well, he lost all the saving the GOP healthcare bill would have provided so now he's gonna have to cut even more out of the budget which already is a sore point for the GOP and the next aim of the democratic resistance.

If you would have told me on Jan 20th that the GOP would be scared to repeal and replace the ACA because of the resistance of their hometown constituents town hall meetings I would not have believed that liberals could have shut Trump down so handily...

Just wait till the resistance takes on the Trump budget :~)

Jeff, we finally get to agree on a few things.  Health care is a loser for both parties.  Probably more so now for the Republicans because they're in charge.  Obama won because now that many people are getting care, many Republicans don't want to repeal it.  The issue now is how it's going to play out.  With the Republican right being against it and the Democrats refusing to give it votes to repeal, how are they going to get together to get it corrected as it implodes?  I suspect, Trump the dealmaker, who's more interested in getting things done than he cares about the Republican party who abused him during the election, will go to the Democrats and make a deal with them to help it.  Single payer?

With an emboldened Republican right due to yesterday's vote, Trump's going to have problems with lowering taxes if he can't prove that they will bring in more revenue.  The Democrats are going to filibuster making it even tougher.  Same issue with budget busting Infrastructure except he might get Democrat support to make up for the Republican right's NO votes.  The Democrats are going to filibuster everything the Republicans want to do as was done to them when Obama was President.

We may be seeing the continuation of government shutdown. 

[jeremyrh]

Trump the dealmaker

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!  Stop it, no really, please stop it, my sides are killing me!

[Alan Goldhammer]

Health care is a loser for both parties. 

It's not a loser; it's just that the US has a terribly fragmented healthcare system.  Businesses get a tax break when they pay for employee health insurance but they seldom provide a choice for employees (other than the Federal government program which has a choice of many plans).  those who are self employed like my two daughters are at the mercy of the individual market place.  They do get a tax write off but have to shop around each year for what plan is best.  Obamacare worked for both of them (the youngest is now on the plan of her boyfriend as the company he works for provides for domestic partner benefits).  They found good Silver plans in both cities where they work.  Neither qualified for any premium support.  They were happy to have the covered benefits provide for under the law.

I recommend reading TR Reid's "The Healing of America" which surveys healthcare in about some foreign countries that provide universal coverage:  Canada, Japan, UK, France, Germany, Switzerland.  Each has a different model.  Switzerland decided to implement universal coverage in 1993, the same year as the failed Clinton effort.  Germany extended coverage in the late 1800s under Bismarck.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Ex-CIA Director: Mike Flynn and Turkish Officials Discussed Removal of Erdogan Foe From U.S. (without going through U.S. extradition process):
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ex-cia-director-mike-flynn-and-turkish-officials-discussed-removal-of-erdogan-foe-from-u-s-1490380426

Who needs enemies with friends like that?

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Sorry, Jeff, I tried to go through your list of "lies," but had to give up after the first few, realizing that many items on the list are lies themselves.

[Schewe]

Sorry, Jeff, I tried to go through your list of "lies," but had to give up after the first few, realizing that many items on the list are lies themselves.

Sorry Slobadan, I just went through the list again and as far as I can recall, all of the items are either true or mostly true. So I rate your claim untrue or mostly untrue - 4 Pinocchios!

The fact is Trump is the bigest liar I've ever seen and heard. He li s so much he has a reality distortion field around him that mak s other people lie about his lies...

Tell the truth, does he ever tell the truth?

[pegelli]

Sorry, Jeff, I tried to go through your list of "lies," but had to give up after the first few, realizing that many items on the list are lies themselves.

You must be clairvoyant, giving up after a "few" and still concluding "many" on the list weren't true. Amazing 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

You must be clairvoyant, giving up after a "few" and still concluding "many" on the list weren't true. Amazing 

And not (able to) mention a 'few' lies either.

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

Here's 4 pages of around 80 lies Obama told.
Of course, you didn't have the liberal press gang up on him.  They protected him. 
 http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/

[Peter McLennan]

I feel I really must congratulate Alan and Slobodan on their steadfast commitment to the defense of the indefensible.

[Alan Klein]

I think the Dutch posters here should look home and stop with their constant attacks on our President and look at what their own leader and his supporters stand for.  During the Dutch election just held, PM Mark Rutte who was re-elected, said during the campaign aiming his comments toward immigrants especially Muslims, "If you don't like it here, get out of the country, go away", he said to newspaper AD. "That's a choice you have. If you live in a country where you are continually outraged at how we deal with each other. You have the choice to go away! You do not need to be here."
http://nltimes.nl/2017/01/23/dont-like-get-country-says-dutch-pm

Don't you think you ought to deal with your own country's bigotry?  Or maybe by looking at our President and how America does things, you can lie to yourself that your s**t doesn't stink too. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Here's 4 pages of around 80 lies Obama told.
Of course, you didn't have the liberal press gang up on him.  They protected him. 
 http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/

Good one Alan, although it spans some 9.5 years?

Trump is approx. 60 days into his term, one cannot comprehend the amount of pages that would produce ...
He's already on page 7 at PolitiFact, most within the last 3 years since getting into politics:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/?page=1

Cheers,
Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Don't you think you ought to deal with your own country's bigotry?

Bigotry? It was not aimed at immigrants, and not against Muslims. People who have double passports, were born here, enjoy all the freedoms and benefits that this country has to offer, yet prefer the policies of the country they do not live in, are advised to choose.

Cheers,
Bart