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Author Topic: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem  (Read 1791 times)

jaramd

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Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« on: February 04, 2017, 12:43:44 PM »

I have recently switched from Epson to a Canon Pro P-4000 and was trying to set up Epson Exhibition Fiber on this printer.  I did make a new media type and a custom icc profile.  I am printing through Photoshop and then Print Studio Pro with print quality-highest, Clear Coat-checked, and rendering intent-relative colorimetric.

Overall the print looks great with the exception of gloss differential in the deep black areas.  I tried to go back into photoshop and change the black output from 0 to 10 which did help (but obviously reduces the "blackness" of the print);  I am sure that there must be a better solution (although Canon tech support did not have any suggestions).  Help on this one would be appreciated.

Has anyone used the Canon Premium Fine Art Polished Rag and found gloss differential problems?

Thanks in advance, Joe

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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 01:31:26 PM »

Please see my Canon Pro-2000 review on this website where I have also discussed my testing of Canon Premium Fine Art Polished Rag, using a test print that Canon Inc. (Kanagawa, Japan) provided to me for testing Blacks and overall colour vibrancy. I could not detect gloss differential in the Black. Gloss differential of non-inked white areas would be noticeable when looking at photographs from unnatural, sub-optimal angles and the CO coverage is set to "Auto" rather than "Overall". Otherwise it is unapparent.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 01:33:28 PM »

One more point: in the title of your thread you mention "Bronzing", but in the message body you talk about gloss differential. These are different things. Anyhow, to deal with the thread title - no, I do not see bronzing in the tests I've conducted.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

keithcooper

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 03:31:01 PM »

This depends a lot on paper choice and CO settings





from http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/paper-review-platinum-gloss-art-fibre-300/ (on the pro-2000)

See also

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/impressora-pro-photo-media-review/

Where I had a whole collection of papers to try out and I've only seen -very- slight 'bronzing' with the PRO-2000 on some papers, but it takes care to see it



I've not tested that particular Epson paper though (I did try quite a few when I had the PRO-2000 here to test and review)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 03:41:14 PM »

Yes, paper surface (in particular impact on reflectance) makes a difference, but I think most important of all is the effect of the positioning of the print and the observer as between the primary and the sub-illuminants.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

jaramd

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 05:55:05 PM »

Thanks for trying to help and trying to answer a question that was not as clear.. sorry for that, since I am relatively new to this area.

I think that I am seeing "bronzing", it is a flat greyish color when I look at the print at a certain angle.. I have attached a cellphone picture of the problem.. any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated... Joe
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2017, 06:16:06 PM »

The whole image has a sepia tint so one can't discern whether there is bronzing or not, and the reflective hot spot is probably a reflection of the light source due to the viewing angle at which you shot the photo.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml

Wil_Hershberger

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 01:18:29 PM »

I too have seen gloss differential (GD) and bronzing with some photo papers using the Canon Pro 4000. Canon's satin photographic (240 gsm) and Canson's satin photo papers showed the least amount of GD and bronzing of any photo paper I have tried to date. Epson's premium luster, legacy baryta, and Canson's baryta were the worst for GD and bronzing -- even with chroma optimizers set to overall. With this said, you really have to look for the GD and bronzing to see it. Viewed at a normal angle with appropriate lighting, all of these prints are exceptional.

Of course, this does not apply to matte papers.
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keithcooper

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moving to a new printer...
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 03:53:00 PM »

One thing I've noticed when testing printers is that I need to regularly reset my attitudes to what paper is 'best' ;-)

Most times what was a good paper on one printer can work well on another, but I've wasted enough time in the past that I now don't make any assumptions!

Of course, this isn't what people necessarily want to hear, when they have boxes of paper left over from their last printer...

henrikolsen

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 05:23:07 PM »

I too have seen gloss differential (GD) and bronzing with some photo papers using the Canon Pro 4000. Canon's satin photographic (240 gsm) and Canson's satin photo papers showed the least amount of GD and bronzing of any photo paper I have tried to date. Epson's premium luster, legacy baryta, and Canson's baryta were the worst for GD and bronzing -- even with chroma optimizers set to overall. With this said, you really have to look for the GD and bronzing to see it. Viewed at a normal angle with appropriate lighting, all of these prints are exceptional.

Using same OEM inkset on Pro-1000, CO overall, I have some of the worst results in this regard on Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta, making it a pain for table pass-around reviews.
But today I tried (among many other papers recently for finding a match to this new printer/inkjet) the newer Canson Prestige, and although I prefer the texture (both front and back) of the cotton Platine over the more uniform, almost Canson RC Luster-like, surface of the Prestige, gloss differential and bronzing almost went away, to my big surprise, as no other tested paper yet has even come close. The Platine is better than the HM Silk Baryta, but the Prestige seems to be in a different league, hopefully making this a non-issue. It is an issue with many other papers I feel, possible not when glazed and walled, but when passing prints around a table for review/client discussions, it can really look nasty with overhead lights and people noticing the odd look.

I here good things about some new Canon FA series, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. But seeing this today, I have hope that other well behaved papers for this printer might exist.

Now the question begs if this apparently different technology of the Prestige has already found itself into other papers I haven't tried yet, or when this new tech will find itself into new versions of something like the existing Canson Platine with all it's otherwise wonderful qualities (in my eyes and hands). Anyone with sufficient insight here to give an informed tip or forecast?
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stockjock

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 05:29:10 AM »

Using same OEM inkset on Pro-1000, CO overall, I have some of the worst results in this regard on Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta, making it a pain for table pass-around reviews.
But today I tried (among many other papers recently for finding a match to this new printer/inkjet) the newer Canson Prestige, and although I prefer the texture (both front and back) of the cotton Platine over the more uniform, almost Canson RC Luster-like, surface of the Prestige, gloss differential and bronzing almost went away, to my big surprise, as no other tested paper yet has even come close. The Platine is better than the HM Silk Baryta, but the Prestige seems to be in a different league, hopefully making this a non-issue. It is an issue with many other papers I feel, possible not when glazed and walled, but when passing prints around a table for review/client discussions, it can really look nasty with overhead lights and people noticing the odd look.

I here good things about some new Canon FA series, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. But seeing this today, I have hope that other well behaved papers for this printer might exist.

Now the question begs if this apparently different technology of the Prestige has already found itself into other papers I haven't tried yet, or when this new tech will find itself into new versions of something like the existing Canson Platine with all it's otherwise wonderful qualities (in my eyes and hands). Anyone with sufficient insight here to give an informed tip or forecast?

Based on your comments I just ordered a roll of the Canson Prestige Baryta.  Pricey stuff but if it improves on the gloss differential and bronzing of Platine it will be worth it for exhibition prints.  But I really hope the surface doesn't have that shimmery look of the Canson Luster.
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Panagiotis

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Re: Canon Pro-4000 Gloss Differential / Bronzing problem
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 04:59:27 AM »

Using same OEM inkset on Pro-1000, CO overall, I have some of the worst results in this regard on Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta, making it a pain for table pass-around reviews.
But today I tried (among many other papers recently for finding a match to this new printer/inkjet) the newer Canson Prestige, and although I prefer the texture (both front and back) of the cotton Platine over the more uniform, almost Canson RC Luster-like, surface of the Prestige, gloss differential and bronzing almost went away, to my big surprise, as no other tested paper yet has even come close. The Platine is better than the HM Silk Baryta, but the Prestige seems to be in a different league, hopefully making this a non-issue. It is an issue with many other papers I feel, possible not when glazed and walled, but when passing prints around a table for review/client discussions, it can really look nasty with overhead lights and people noticing the odd look.

I here good things about some new Canon FA series, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. But seeing this today, I have hope that other well behaved papers for this printer might exist.

Now the question begs if this apparently different technology of the Prestige has already found itself into other papers I haven't tried yet, or when this new tech will find itself into new versions of something like the existing Canson Platine with all it's otherwise wonderful qualities (in my eyes and hands). Anyone with sufficient insight here to give an informed tip or forecast?
I tested yesterday the new Hahnemuhle Photo Gloss Baryta 320 on my pro-1000. I didn't like it at first sight because it' s very glossy but when I printed it I change my mind. The prints (color and BW with CO set to overall) are very nice with no gloss differential or bronzing.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 07:18:25 AM by Panagiotis »
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