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Author Topic: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks  (Read 2815 times)

capital

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US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« on: February 01, 2017, 05:34:46 PM »

Congressman Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) last night introduced H.J. Res. 46, which seeks to repeal updates to the National Park Service’s “9B” rules. The rules require detailed planning and set safety standards for oil and gas drilling inside the more than 40 national parks that have “split estate” ownership, where the federal government owns the surface but not the subsurface mineral rights. {source}

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/02/01/this-lawmaker-wants-more-drilling-in-national-parks-and-he-just-became-more-powerful/

Consider contacting Rep. Gosar: http://gosar.house.gov/
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 06:36:14 PM by capital »
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Telecaster

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 04:51:14 PM »

When your worldview features a fundamental contempt for the world you inhabit, this is the kind of thing that results.

-Dave-
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 10:18:12 PM »

As a native Texan all my life and my dad working as a Halliburton frac truck driver back in the '60's before frac-ing turned into an earthquake inducing lateral sandblasting affair near underground water supplies, I'ld like to see if that bill offers a better clean up package when all those oil field contractors pull up stakes after the price of oil drops than what we got in Texas with Eagle Ford Shale...

http://kut.org/post/what-do-texas-leftover-oil-gas-wells

It's a mess.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2017, 01:56:02 AM »

The article indicates that Obama, a week before the election in November, unilaterally had the Park manager issue a new regulation that stopped a lot of drilling that had gone on safely for years.  This was Obama playing king instead of having Congress and the people decide how this issue should be handled. 

The people elected Trump to reverse the overbearing regulation of the government that have hurt jobs and businesses during a period of economic hardship for many including the economy in general.  People's economic situation count too as well as the environment.  Most Americans want a clean and viable environment as well as a good economy that works for them.  Certainly we can do both.   The new President and the new Republican Congress will reverse many of the arbitrary regulations of all kinds that have hurt the economy and jobs.  Elections have consequences.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2017, 03:36:16 AM »

People's economic situation count too as well as the environment.  Most Americans want a clean and viable environment as well as a good economy that works for them.  Certainly we can do both.

Can anyone tell me how many jobs and their duration another drilling site brings to rural areas of the US? My posted link tells you it's pretty short and sweet and what's left is a lot of abandoned wells to clean up and empty lodging and support service business buildings.

My dad worked all his life in that kind of economy and his income for our family of six was at Federal poverty line standards. We had to move almost every 3 years to where ever the support service company drill site sent us. I've got a sister living in Alice, Tx., a town where over 200 surrounding Eagle Ford Shale drill sites increased that town's economy to $12 million a year and now has left it with less than half that.

How does one build retirement savings on such a boom/bust economy? When the oil company's drill site gets the oil and caps the well and pulls up stakes, what other jobs are created? There should be some kind of royalty fee paid to the small town who had to invest in support service, road maintenance and infrastructure to help the oil company take the oil from underneath them and then leave.

https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2015/08/17/in-some-texas-oil-towns-this-downturn-feels-more-like-a-bust/
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Alan Klein

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 12:25:22 PM »

Tim, I understand your point. But what would have happened if that job was not available to your dad and family? ? What would have happened then?  Not everyone can work in Wall Street.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 01:59:00 PM »

Tim, I understand your point. But what would have happened if that job was not available to your dad and family? ? What would have happened then?  Not everyone can work in Wall Street.

Wow! Pretty limited answer with no options for a country that practically invented modern economics. That doesn't make sense.

In the words from one of Trump's tweet..."Sad".
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Telecaster

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 05:30:33 PM »

Wow! Pretty limited answer with no options for a country that practically invented modern economics. That doesn't make sense.

Innovation and creativity are dirty words to anyone who's view of the world is: the better things get the worse they get. There is no forward vision at work here. Quite the opposite: regressive is the operative mindset. Along with the desire to fully exploit whatever resources we've already identified and invested in. And after those resources are gone? This question isn't asked, much less addressed.

Mind you, I'm not a "stop all drilling & mining" nutter. I merely support an equal if not greater emphasis on developing new resources. But to do so acknowledges not only that the future will be different to the past but that it could possibly be better. This is cognitively/emotionally anathema to our governing ideologues. We must return to their fantasy past, and then stay there.

-Dave-
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Alan Klein

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 11:53:53 PM »

Innovation and creativity are dirty words to anyone who's view of the world is: the better things get the worse they get. There is no forward vision at work here. Quite the opposite: regressive is the operative mindset. Along with the desire to fully exploit whatever resources we've already identified and invested in. And after those resources are gone? This question isn't asked, much less addressed.

Mind you, I'm not a "stop all drilling & mining" nutter. I merely support an equal if not greater emphasis on developing new resources. But to do so acknowledges not only that the future will be different to the past but that it could possibly be better. This is cognitively/emotionally anathema to our governing ideologues. We must return to their fantasy past, and then stay there.

-Dave-

There are all kinds of innovation and creativity at work.  Solar and nuclear power, electric cars, etc. There are many entrepreneurs who are willing to invest capital in developing all kinds of alternatives.  But it all costs money and investors look for returns.  In the meanwhile cheaper oil and gas will remain the mainstay. 

When you say you "support an equal or greater emphasis on developing new recourses", how much have you personally invested in these new industries?  Have you switched your heating to electric or do you still burn cheaper oil or gas?  Do you drive an electric car or hybrid?  Have you installed solar panels or are you still on the grid?  Have you invested your money in alternative energy companies?  Or do you prefer others take the risk and pay the extra costs? 
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dreed

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 03:34:42 AM »

...
Solar and nuclear power, electric cars, etc.
...

How many nuclear power stations using modern designs have been approved in the last 20 years? (in the USA)

What course of action has the president set in motion for the EPA?

...

I could go on.

US politics is owned by oil, gas and coal companies and its policies (especially those of the Republican party) are a reflection of exactly that.

For an example of just how corrupt politics in the USA are, look at how hard it has been for an entrepreneur by the name of Elon Musk to sell his cars throughout the USA.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 06:08:44 AM »

You think an electric car will help offset fossil fuel burning this video from "Adam Ruins Everything" series gives some perspective...

https://youtu.be/J-uQD9_OXzs?t=385
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dreed

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 07:40:09 AM »

You think an electric car will help offset fossil fuel burning this video from "Adam Ruins Everything" series gives some perspective...
...

Whether or not it offsets fossil fuel burning is beside the point in this discussion.

The point here is that someone is saying "yay, america, go entrepreneurs!" - innovation is the future. Except that states and companies all over the USA have gone to great lengths to block innovation and entrepreneurship.

Oh, and as for my contribution to this, I live an alternative lifestyle to many of you (and one which some of you would find positively foreign): I've been living car free for 5 years now (my choice.) Pays handsomely let me tell you :)
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Peter McLennan

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2017, 12:13:11 PM »

The new President and the new Republican Congress will reverse many of the arbitrary regulations of all kinds that have hurt the economy and jobs.

Excellent. By all means, sacrifice forever the beauty and spirituality of these places for all of us, forever, for the benefit of a few today.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 08:08:36 PM by Peter McLennan »
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dreed

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2017, 04:24:49 PM »

Excellent. By all means, sacrifice forever the beauty and spirituality of these places for all of us, for the benefit of a few today.

To put it in perspective for landscape photographers...

... think of your favorite view at Yosemite or Canyonlands or Bryce or ... now put a drilling rig in the middle of the frame and wire fences to keep you out, maybe of where you once used to walk, sit, eat and drink.

The people with the drilling rigs and land rights won't give a sh*t about your precious views that you once treasured and photographed.
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Telecaster

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2017, 05:42:54 PM »

When you say you "support an equal or greater emphasis on developing new recourses", how much have you personally invested in these new industries?  Have you switched your heating to electric or do you still burn cheaper oil or gas?  Do you drive an electric car or hybrid?  Have you installed solar panels or are you still on the grid?  Have you invested your money in alternative energy companies?  Or do you prefer others take the risk and pay the extra costs?

Solar panels are in the works for my upcoming "new" house. Heat in the old house is gas. Current car is a diesel, sold as "clean" but quite dirty as it turns out. Thanks, Volkswagen! And I have in fact invested in alternate energy in the past, though currently I have no energy investments at all.

Anyway, my point isn't about what companies may or may not be doing. It's about what drives the folks setting government policy. I don't see anything forward thinking or future oriented about their agenda.

-Dave-
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Alan Klein

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2017, 09:02:03 PM »

Solar panels are in the works for my upcoming "new" house. Heat in the old house is gas. Current car is a diesel, sold as "clean" but quite dirty as it turns out. Thanks, Volkswagen! And I have in fact invested in alternate energy in the past, though currently I have no energy investments at all.

Anyway, my point isn't about what companies may or may not be doing. It's about what drives the folks setting government policy. I don't see anything forward thinking or future oriented about their agenda.

-Dave-

Curious of you're getting a tax subsidy to put in solar panels?  If you are, then other tax payers like me are paying for your panels so you can save money.  How is that fair?

There's plenty of "forward thinking" for the government.  Maybe too many regulations.  There has to be a balance.  Not everyone can afford solar panels.  Oil heating might be the only thing available in a particular community.  It cost a lot to install gas lines.  Where I live, the residents have to use gas for heating.  No oil is allowed.  No wood fire places either, only gas, to reduce pollution.  People want to breathe clean air and drink unpolluted water.  But a balance must be established as people still need to work and live and support their families. 
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2017, 02:58:38 AM »

People want to breathe clean air and drink unpolluted water.  But a balance must be established as people still need to work and live and support their families.

The only balance is we all breathe clean air and drink unpolluted water. There's no compromise here.

Or are you saying we should allow jobs in industries and companies that pollute our air and water just so people have jobs? Here's a balance for ya'. How about these unemployed folks get different jobs or take an alternate career path that doesn't directly or indirectly pollute our air and water?

What other balance is there? I'm not understanding your point, Alan.
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David Anderson

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2017, 04:26:30 AM »

The only balance is we all breathe clean air and drink unpolluted water. There's no compromise here.


The compromise these days is that the big big money doesn't give a rats r'se about what everyone else wants or needs as long as the dollars for a very few keep rolling in. This greed is obviously beyond sustainable jobs or no jobs.
When all the drinking water is fouled, Trump and his mates will be sipping posh bottled water and looking down their noses at the working class.
Right-wing Jesus will be so proud of them.  ;)


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tom b

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2017, 06:26:25 AM »

A crazy post.

Hey, 99% of LuLa visitors are pro protecting National Parks. Drilling, you have got to be joking. Tourism, the world's number two industry "trumps" drilling.

Cheers,

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: US House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2017, 04:11:18 PM »

I kind of doubt the areas of drilling they're considering in National Parks will be those that impede or are located in high traffic tourism spots. My dad as an oil field supervisor had to travel long hours to get to sites out in the middle of nowhere on mostly leased areas of the King ranch in south Texas. I rode with him on a couple occasions just to see what he did for a living. It's big sky country along the lines of the movie "Giant".

The real problems are the affects of building infrastructure required to get to remote sites on National Park land. Roads have to be plowed and gravel paved, trees removed, nearby lodging built, food provided, etc. And then there is the clean up regardless if the well produces or goes bust.

Drilling sites aren't particularly clean places to work. Believe me. It can also stink of crude oil (smells like motor oil mixed with sewer...it's that bad). But it only smells within the area of the drill site. I wouldn't think in those remote areas they'ld be close enough to campers and hikers.
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