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Author Topic: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?  (Read 9510 times)

Chris Barrett

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2017, 09:44:55 AM »

Joe... conversely, I was really pleased with the 43, but only up to about 15mm.

Lust4Life

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2017, 09:53:55 AM »

I think CB is right on the SK 35mm. 

At first I was hopeful on the quality, but I just spent this morning looking over images I captured with it for a client.  I am not just not satisfied with the quality beyond 12mm of shift. 

Thankfully this is one of my good and not super picky clients.  But now I am rethinking my lens choices and whether or not I really want to invest in the SK 43mm. 

I may decide that the 32mm and 40mm are the safer routes.

Joe, interesting what you found with very close inspection - glad you discovered that rather than myself as I am the poster child for the North American Anal Retentive!!  It must be as perfect as current technology will allow for me to not be dissatisfied!!

I will be curious to hear what you settle on - please keep me posted.

Jack
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2017, 10:26:32 AM »

Joe... conversely, I was really pleased with the 43, but only up to about 15mm.

Also, one thing that keeps on getting me about the 43mm is it is slightly less wide then what I was use to working with.  The 40mm is about the same angle of view on the 260 as the 35mm was on the P45+. 

For my taste, the 35mm on the 260 is too wide for most images, even interiors. 

I may purchase the 40mm and keep the 35 for now as a slightly wider lens for when I need it. 

Dropping $10K on the 32mm is just going to hurt too much, especially for a lens I may only use 20% of the time for interiors.  So many hard decisions. 
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Joe Kitchen
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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2017, 10:28:32 AM »

Just for the record, if I mainly shot interiors and I did not like hiking with my tech camera, I would really consider CB's setup. 

However, dealing with a bellows camera and the space that it takes up is a deal breaker for me.  Like I said before, I hate large and/or hard cases and prefer to be able to pack everything into a backpack.  The RM3Di allows for that. 
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner

Lust4Life

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2017, 11:03:09 AM »

Just for the record, if I mainly shot interiors and I did not like hiking with my tech camera, I would really consider CB's setup. 

However, dealing with a bellows camera and the space that it takes up is a deal breaker for me.  Like I said before, I hate large and/or hard cases and prefer to be able to pack everything into a backpack.  The RM3Di allows for that.

The capacity to have both worlds, arch and landscape, in one camera setup is essential for me.  I have my Airstream to travel for both types of work and do not have any intention of stopping landscape work, I just know it will not generate the modest cash flow I want at this point in my life.

I need a camera/arsenal of gear for both of my passions.

An important factor is the ability to get excellent focus with a bright viewfinder/ground glass regardless of the environment and not requiring being tethered to my MacBook Pro in the field.  Thus, the sliding back with the Hassie V viewfinder is very attractive for me unless someone knows of a better solution.

Jack
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Jack
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fotagf8

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2017, 12:47:22 PM »

 I use the Arca RM3di with a Leaf 50 back.  I was advised not to go above 60 because higher pixel counts apparently are problematic.  The viewfinder is a waste of money in my experience.  I use an iPhone with the Alpa app, and often just rely on LiveView.

I have the e-cloud, but have stopped using it.  I find it is easy enough to dial in proper focus using LiveView at 100% and wide open aperture.  For landscapes, this works fine.  For closer objects, I use the distance cards provided with each lens to get to the proper area on the focus dial and then go to LiveView.  I get about 90 to 120 minutes (cold weather) out of a battery this way, and I carry three or four batteries.  Shot count is what really matters, and when it is warm, I find I only need one or at most two batteries to get me through a five or six hour day--maybe a 150 exposures, often involved stitched images. 

The system isn't the easiest to travel with if you are using longer lenses because extension tubes are required that making packing the camera in a carry-on case that fits under the seat difficult.  If you are not using longer lenses, the camera packs down rather nicely. 

Be prepared to to use the LCC opaque card, which does add time to the process, but it is essential with camera movements.  This will also require additional work in CaptureOne, but not a big deal.

My biggest complaint with the camera is the lenses, which I don't find to be mechanically reliable--Schneider (4) and Rodenstock (1). My 43 isn't working right now--second time.  Three of the others have stopped working for awhile, and then started working.  On some occasions, the shutters wouldn't close once triggered, and on others the shutters  wouldn't open.   This may be cold weather.  Currently the other ones have been working, but I am now reluctant to photograph when it is real cold out.

Other than that, I love the camera. 

If you go with the Arca, I would use screw in cables rather than the magnetic ones.  People report different experiences, but in my experience, the magnets are not strong enough and occasionally pop out.

One word of caution, which the other more technically inclined can comment on or correct.  As I understand it, the lenses use Copal shutters, and that company apparently isn't making those parts anymore.  As I understand it, the lens companies are coming out with electronic shutters that can be retrofitted to the existing lenses.  I took a quick look at that as an option--it looked expensive and complicated.  So be before buying into one of these systems, I would address long-term viability.  At some point the shutters will fail.

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alan_b

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2017, 12:58:15 PM »

There is no architectural project on this planet that can't be photographed absolutely beautifully with a Canon DSLR and its basic complement of lenses. And a tech camera is probably the worst system to use for real estate photography.

Truth.

jamgolf

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2017, 01:35:07 PM »

a tech camera is probably the worst system to use for real estate photography.

What about a tech camera makes it the worst system to use for real estate photography?
Just curious to understand your point of view on this.
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vjbelle

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2017, 01:43:12 PM »

First of all I can’t agree more with everything that Graham has said about the Cambo Actus.  I also have a DB+ version with two rails, two bellows and 7 Schneider Digitar lenses.  I also have an Alpa STC and have kept three of my lenses in the Alpa mounts.  The ONLY reason I keep the STC is for landscape situations where high wind conditions could exist.  The STC is more stable under those conditions but only to a limit.  I have had the Leaf 50 CMOS back with this camera and also an IQ180.  The Leaf 50 was simple to use while the IQ180 was close to impossible.  Now I shoot with a IQ3-100 which is a dream to use.  I have yet to have a situation where live view hasn’t nailed focus.  All I use is a Peak 4X loupe at 100% pixels and I’m there.  Tilting is also a breeze with live view.  The Actus system is also very light.  I can pack the camera, back, batteries, loupe, three lenses of my choice and other odds and ends into a Lowe Pro flipside 300 and the whole thing weighs under 13 pounds.  I consider that pretty light.  I have saved thousands and thousands of dollars switching to this system instead of buying the SAME lenses in Alpa mounts.  Arca isn’t much better with regards to pricing.  I made a dowel with markings for all of my lenses for very quick rail setup negating the need to establish infinity with quick rail movements by checking live view.  One of the posts addressed Copal shutters and their mechanical limitations.  I don’t use the shutter as my back has an ES.  This current technology (rolling shutter) is going to be very short lived as Global Shutters are right around the corner.  Fuji will more than likely be the first since they are involved with the R&D but everyone will have that feature.  I’ve toyed with buying the 32 and/or 40mm Rody’s but really don’t want to have post issues with the distortion those lenses have as compared to my Schneider 35mm.  I don’t need shifting beyond 10mm so my needs are met with that lens.  My other lenses can easily shift beyond 10mm. 

Just adding to the mix……

Victor
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Joe Towner

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2017, 04:44:52 PM »

I guess the bigger question is what are you trying to accomplish that the HTS + 24mm + 35/50mm lens doesn't give you.  Yes, with the 60/80 CCD's and a tech cam setup, you can get bigger images, but really, will the market pay a higher price to support the gear change?  Yes, we need a better 35mm lens, but you are already more than half way to done with the -50c and the 28mm.

Swap in the X1D for lighter work, same lenses & HTS and you're just as set.
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Lust4Life

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2017, 05:00:18 PM »

"Swap in the X1D for lighter work, same lenses & HTS and you're just as set."

IF ONLY that was valid.  In speaking to my Hassie dealer, the X1D will not accept the HTS. 
Please show me that he is wrong!

Thus, with the H5D and the HTS I can get some movement and tilt for DOF but it will be marginal, but I think adequate to get me started and feel out the market here.  Big issue is the weight reduction I get with a tech camera or the X1D (near 5 pounds when I plug in the lenses).  The weight is an issue for me that many others don't have to contend with.

Jack
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James Clark

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2017, 07:42:05 PM »

Truth.

Agreed also. My A7r or 5DSr is what gets pulled when I'm working.   My phase kit comes out for landscape work only.   I can't deny that the best Phase files are ultimately a bit better than the best Sony or Canon files, but what I find is that the flexibility of the Canon/Sony setup tends to give me better work for far less effort.
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Lust4Life

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2017, 07:54:54 PM »

Agreed also. My A7r or 5DSr is what gets pulled when I'm working.   My phase kit comes out for landscape work only.   I can't deny that the best Phase files are ultimately a bit better than the best Sony or Canon files, but what I find is that the flexibility of the Canon/Sony setup tends to give me better work for far less effort.

Several years ago I bought the Canon 17mm f/4 Tilt-Shift lens and the Canon EOS 5D at 30MP.
I also had the Hasselblad H5 and wanted to get to a much lighter camera and far less expensive/less cost of depreciation over time as well.

What I found was that when I pushed the Canon files in my post processing I hit far more situations where banding occurred in an image!  Great loss of many scenes I shot of clouds over the sea and in the Everglades (I was living in Naples, FL).

Thus, I took both cameras out, shot the same scene (Must admit I loved the 17 lens!) and then post processed exactly the same way.  Hassie file did not band, Canon definitely did and spoiled the gradation tones of the clouds and sky.

I blamed it on 14 verse 16 bits (I know, this can be challenged but I had the files and the results) and Hassie was the clear winner.

IF Canon comes out with a 50MP back and a high bit count RAW file, I'm in, but I don't see that on the shelves right now (but I don't see the X1D either!!).

PS: If the Sony Alpha a7RII will take the Canon 17 lens I'd like to know about that.  Even better if someone has pushed the RAW file and not had the banding appear then I'm in!

Jack
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Jack
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Chris Barrett

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2017, 08:10:15 PM »

Where've you been, Jack?  The Sony can take just about any lens on the planet.  You can use just a straight Metabones adapter for the Tilt/Shift glass, but here's my rig... the Arca Mf2 with Sony on the back and Canon 11-24 on the front.  The lens is zoomed to 14mm.  The camera is shifted left about 5mm.  Shot below.



14MM and movements!  This is why I went to the Sony.  There's no way I could have made this shot with my Previous system.

Lust4Life

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2017, 08:15:26 PM »

Holy Cow!!

A good friend of mine, Clyde Butcher, has been pestering to buy the Sony and put it through the paces.
I had no idea you could mate it with the 17TS like that on a tech body!

You have my attention, but I'd need to do it on something like the Arca AR due to the weight issues I want to insulate myself from.

Guess what I look into tomorrow?

Now, I ask can you push the image in post and not have it "band" the sky and clouds???

Jack
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 08:18:35 PM by Lust4Life »
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Jack
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alan_b

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2017, 08:53:52 PM »

Holy Cow!!

A good friend of mine, Clyde Butcher, has been pestering to buy the Sony and put it through the paces.
I had no idea you could mate it with the 17TS like that on a tech body!

You have my attention, but I'd need to do it on something like the Arca AR due to the weight issues I want to insulate myself from.

Guess what I look into tomorrow?

Now, I ask can you push the image in post and not have it "band" the sky and clouds???

Jack

For light weight, use Canon lens -> Metabones adapter -> Sony body.  Skip the Arca R, not applicable there.  Chris is using the Arca M2 in place of the Metabones adapter to get shift with the 11-24 lens.

No problem pushing the Sony sensors hard (Sony, Nikon, Phase/Hassy CMOS).

Lust4Life

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2017, 09:10:40 PM »

This is an eye opener for me.  My focus for the last 3 years has not been photography due to several distractions that are now under control.

So, you are saying that I can take the Canon 17TS lens and with MetaBones mate it to the Sony.  You are also saying that since what I'm using on Hassie and what Sony is using (CMOS) I can push the raw file and not see banding, at least no different what what I get with the Hassie 5D 50c?

Just looked at MetaBones - numerous flavors of adapters.  If I want to give this a try, what specific adapter do I need for the Canon 17TC?

Jack
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Jack
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Lust4Life

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2017, 09:20:51 PM »

This one...

http://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB-EF-E-BT4

Thank you!
Now,any rumors with substance to them that Sony has their next iteration about to hit the shelves?

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Jack
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David Eichler

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Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2017, 11:50:46 PM »

Several years ago I bought the Canon 17mm f/4 Tilt-Shift lens and the Canon EOS 5D at 30MP.
I also had the Hasselblad H5 and wanted to get to a much lighter camera and far less expensive/less cost of depreciation over time as well.

What I found was that when I pushed the Canon files in my post processing I hit far more situations where banding occurred in an image!  Great loss of many scenes I shot of clouds over the sea and in the Everglades (I was living in Naples, FL).

Thus, I took both cameras out, shot the same scene (Must admit I loved the 17 lens!) and then post processed exactly the same way.  Hassie file did not band, Canon definitely did and spoiled the gradation tones of the clouds and sky.

I blamed it on 14 verse 16 bits (I know, this can be challenged but I had the files and the results) and Hassie was the clear winner.

IF Canon comes out with a 50MP back and a high bit count RAW file, I'm in, but I don't see that on the shelves right now (but I don't see the X1D either!!).

PS: If the Sony Alpha a7RII will take the Canon 17 lens I'd like to know about that.  Even better if someone has pushed the RAW file and not had the banding appear then I'm in!

Jack

Chris Barrett, or anyone else here who has extensive experience using both medium and small format digital in demanding professional situations, can you speak to the banding to which Jack refers?
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