Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?  (Read 9573 times)

rastas

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2017, 12:10:32 AM »

Fuji GFX-50s with canon tilt shift lenses. What more in life do you need..... adapters coming soon.
Logged

asmartkid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2017, 01:17:05 AM »

Chris Barrett, or anyone else here who has extensive experience using both medium and small format digital in demanding professional situations, can you speak to the banding to which Jack refers?

Just under two months of professional work with the Sony A7RII, so YMMV, but no banding issues with the Sony by now. On the contrary, My beloved Canon 5D2 had plenty of artifacts and noise as soon as you forced exposition up in any RAW...
Logged

David Eichler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 593
    • San Francisco Architectural and Interior Photographer
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2017, 01:35:11 AM »

Just under two months of professional work with the Sony A7RII, so YMMV, but no banding issues with the Sony by now. On the contrary, My beloved Canon 5D2 had plenty of artifacts and noise as soon as you forced exposition up in any RAW...

Yes, well, the 5DII is ancient technology at this point. :-)
Logged

alatreille

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
    • Between the Buildings
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2017, 02:41:03 AM »

Chris,
Did you have to alter the rear of the 11-24 at all?
Cheers.
A


Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Logged
Between the Buildings
http://www.andrewlatreille.com

chrismuc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 172
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2017, 04:36:28 AM »

Banding:
Canon cameras like 5DII, 5DIII, 5DsR, 1DX could suffer from some banding if the shadows are lifted to a certain extend.
Since 5DIV and 1DXII, this is no longer an issue for Canon cameras, neither for Nikon 810 or Sony A7RII using (recent) Sony sensors.

Lenses for architecture and interior architecture photography:
My recommendation is retro-focus lenses with sufficient image circle.

I use and would recommend:
Canon 17f4 TSE
Canon 24f3.5 TSE
Contax 645 35f3.5 (pre-set to f11) + Mirex tilt/shift adapter (Contax 645 - Canon EF)
Hasselblad CF/CFE 50f4 FLE + Mirex tilt/shift adapter (HB CF - Canon EF)
Hasselblad CF/CFE 100f3.5 + Mirex tilt/shift adapter (HB CF - Canon EF)
Hasselblad CF/CFE 180f4 + Mirex tilt/shift adapter (HB CF - Canon EF)
They are affordable and give excellent results, w/o color cast issues.

They work perfectly with cameras w/ different sensor sizes:

36x24mm:
Canon 5DsR
Sony A7RII + Metabones or Sigma adapter

44x33mm:
Fuji GFX 50s (as soon as an adapter from Metabones or Fringer is available)

54x40mm:
Alpa FPS + IQ 180, IQ 3100 a.s.o.
+ Alpa Canon mount for Canon lenses
+ Alpa Contax 645 shift mount for Contax lenses
+ Alpa Contax 645 shift mount + Contax 645 - HB V adapter for Hasselblad CF/CFE lenses

Of course the larger the sensor, the smaller the usable amount of shift movement.
Maybe I make a chart to show the ranges of the combinations.

For my personal preference, I don't see these mini-rail cams necessary add any extra benefit, the Mirex tilt/shit adapters are small, solid and do the job.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 06:52:50 AM by chrismuc »
Logged

David Eichler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 593
    • San Francisco Architectural and Interior Photographer
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2017, 05:17:08 AM »

Banding:
Canon cameras like 5DII, 5DIII, 5DsR, 1DX could suffer from some banding if the shadows are lifted to a certain extend.
Since 5DIV and 1DXII, this is no longer an issue for Canon cameras, neither for Nikon 810 or Sony A7RII using (recent) Sony sensors.

As I read Jack's comments, it seems clear to me that he was not talking about shadow banding. He was seeing it in skies. I am assuming he is talking about daytime skies. If very dark twilight or night skies, I suppose shadow banding could be an issue sometimes. However, shadow banding is possible with any digital format, if you try to raise the level of the shadow tones enough, though this will vary with the technology and format.
Logged

marc aurel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2017, 06:22:11 AM »

For my personal preference, I don't see these mini-rail cams necessary out any extra benefit, the Mirex tilt/shit adapters are small, solid and do the job.

I agree. The mini-rail-cameras like the Actus would introduce some unnecessary handling issues with the bellows for my architecture work (i usually don't need tilt). But at the moment they are a good option that offer geared shifts (the Mirex does not).

I will probably buy a Fuji GFX if it is possible to adapt Canon and Contax 645 lenses. But I would prefer something like a mini-view-cam. Imagine a Cambo Wide RS, but smaller so it does not interfere with the grips of the Fuji GFX. With the luxury of geared shifts (seperate for horizontal and vertical shifts). That would be great.

Regards -
Marc
Logged

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1624
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2017, 07:21:43 AM »

I should have a look at the new 19mm PCE lens Nikon has made.
It is probably one of the best wide angle lenses.
Do not know if there are adapters making it work on MF or Sony...
Logged
Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu

Chris D

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »

While I find it really interesting to hear what other's shoot with, why don't you go shoot and see what you need?  I always look at gear as solving a problem, and you don't know what the problem is until you shoot...  As you can see, everyone has a different gear list because we all have a different way of working, and different problems we have to solve. 

I use an actus with canon TS lenses, contax 35 pc, pentax 645, and more frequently now the canon 16-35 f4.  Before just diving in to MF, understand your potential clients needs, expectations, and budgets.  For years I shot with a aptus backs on an alpa max.

I'm not sure what you're after, or your experience, but you can build a great portfolio with an iphone, which may not be enough for paying work of course, although who knows! 

I'm curious how you can justify a mf back for real estate photography... 
Logged

Lust4Life

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
    • http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2017, 01:58:12 PM »

I understand your logic BUT you are unfortunately (some might say fortunately) unfamiliar with me and my personality.

When I compete, as in the marketplace for architectural photography, I assess my competition and then try to find a way to get a leg up on them.  Of course, mastering and dominating the market and tools takes practice, but I have many years of using a 4x5 in numerous venues.  As to digital, my knowledge goes back to working on the Zygote of all digital:  Eikonix, then Hasselblad digital, Leaf, etc. 

I do not want to enter the market here with just good enough gear, I want exceptional.  Now price does not always define exceptional BUT what I have been seeking in this thread is defining just what some of the very top Architectural photographers in this land are finding they get their best results with.  Everyone that has posted a comment that I felt showed deep knowledge, I have explored their web site and been quite impressed with several!

No, I will not initially have their eye and talent, but I guarantee you it won't take me long!

Thus, I plan to stick to the technical camera because my favorite days of shooting where when I hauled my Wista 45DX Rosewood around the world.  Add to that, I like the physics of what I feel separates the technical camera from the DSLR, both in DMax, perspective control and lenses.  Yes, takes more time to get composed, but I'm doing this for the FUN of it!  I'll eat regardless of how much money I make doing it, this is my final career and I want to be among the very best within 3 years!

Hope that answers your question, but I do appreciate your perspective, but after sleeping on it, it's not for me.

Jack
Logged
Jack
http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Fuji GFX 50s with Fuji 23mm lens.

OwenR

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
    • http://www.owenraggett.com
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2017, 10:02:45 PM »

Hi Jack. Before photography, my employers were two of the largest arch/design firms in the world with budgets to hire anyone they liked and a premium value placed upon the results. Super high rise architecture, high end corporate offices, resort hotels, healthcare, the works.

We had a list of photographers globally that we used, with detailed notes on shooting style, rates, deliverables, work examples etc. There wasn't a field for equipment. Quite simply, the lead designers and architects didn't care about this but they paid intense attention to portfolio and the character and subject knowledge of the photographer. Post production quality was still seen as vital though. For corporate architecture/interiors shoots, there is often a need to move far faster and with more flexibility than we often anticipate as timescales are compressed and conditions less than ideal, and this is when the smaller cameras are magical. Your ability to deliver unexpected shots and a creative design narrative will convince top architects far more than absolute pixel quality (think about the most common printed uses for these photos, it's rarely giant prints).

One of those firms I worked for hired people such as Hedrich Blessing, Tim Griffith, Benny Chan, Chris Barrett, Hufton and Crow. Chris shoots interiors at the very highest level with a Sony, H&C (who work fast, mobile and reactively) shoot top architecture with Canon, and I'm sure their equipment choices are because they feel it's the best possible fit for the work they're doing. And it may just save you enough to buy a new car. Just my thoughts.
Logged

David Eichler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 593
    • San Francisco Architectural and Interior Photographer
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2017, 10:50:03 PM »

Hi Jack. Before photography, my employers were two of the largest arch/design firms in the world with budgets to hire anyone they liked and a premium value placed upon the results. Super high rise architecture, high end corporate offices, resort hotels, healthcare, the works.

We had a list of photographers globally that we used, with detailed notes on shooting style, rates, deliverables, work examples etc. There wasn't a field for equipment. Quite simply, the lead designers and architects didn't care about this but they paid intense attention to portfolio and the character and subject knowledge of the photographer. Post production quality was still seen as vital though. For corporate architecture/interiors shoots, there is often a need to move far faster and with more flexibility than we often anticipate as timescales are compressed and conditions less than ideal, and this is when the smaller cameras are magical. Your ability to deliver unexpected shots and a creative design narrative will convince top architects far more than absolute pixel quality (think about the most common printed uses for these photos, it's rarely giant prints).

One of those firms I worked for hired people such as Hedrich Blessing, Tim Griffith, Benny Chan, Chris Barrett, Hufton and Crow. Chris shoots interiors at the very highest level with a Sony, H&C (who work fast, mobile and reactively) shoot top architecture with Canon, and I'm sure their equipment choices are because they feel it's the best possible fit for the work they're doing. And it may just save you enough to buy a new car. Just my thoughts.
Tim Griffith also uses small format (Sony) equipment in addition to medium format. And Scott Frances uses Canon. I think we could go on and on about top APs who use small format equipment. However, Jack says he wants the best technical quality  for his own needs and this is apparently not an economic or workflow consideration for him. That said, I think you have made the point very well that using medium format will not make him more competitive in the marketplace. What will do that is a high level of talent and photographic and business skills.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 01:51:24 AM by David Eichler »
Logged

voidshatter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 399
    • www.500px.com/voidshatter
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2017, 01:14:09 AM »

I understand your logic BUT you are unfortunately (some might say fortunately) unfamiliar with me and my personality.

When I compete, as in the marketplace for architectural photography, I assess my competition and then try to find a way to get a leg up on them.  Of course, mastering and dominating the market and tools takes practice, but I have many years of using a 4x5 in numerous venues.  As to digital, my knowledge goes back to working on the Zygote of all digital:  Eikonix, then Hasselblad digital, Leaf, etc. 

I do not want to enter the market here with just good enough gear, I want exceptional.  Now price does not always define exceptional BUT what I have been seeking in this thread is defining just what some of the very top Architectural photographers in this land are finding they get their best results with.  Everyone that has posted a comment that I felt showed deep knowledge, I have explored their web site and been quite impressed with several!

No, I will not initially have their eye and talent, but I guarantee you it won't take me long!

Thus, I plan to stick to the technical camera because my favorite days of shooting where when I hauled my Wista 45DX Rosewood around the world.  Add to that, I like the physics of what I feel separates the technical camera from the DSLR, both in DMax, perspective control and lenses.  Yes, takes more time to get composed, but I'm doing this for the FUN of it!  I'll eat regardless of how much money I make doing it, this is my final career and I want to be among the very best within 3 years!

Hope that answers your question, but I do appreciate your perspective, but after sleeping on it, it's not for me.

Jack

If you are making a living then I'd agree with the others that the 35mm format is the way to go (Sony A7R-II with Canon 11-24mm lens, particularly given that you can shift with the appropriate adapter). If you enjoy the pride of owning exotic cameras then you could go for the traditional technical cameras.

DSLR lens without shift with keystone correction, vs. technical camera lens with shift

17TSE+5DSR vs 23HR + IQ250
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10669
    • Echophoto
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2017, 02:45:38 AM »

Hi Jack,

The Fujifilm GFX would be usable as a digital back. It has both FP and electronic shutter variants, FP, EFCS and ES. A large format mounting plate has been announced by Fujifilm. The GFX also mounts HC lenses, probably.

Best regards
Erik




Interesting that Arca has the dominate following so far in this post.  That is what I expected.
I'm thinking if I went the Arca path I'd keep my H5D 50c WiFi, get an external power supply and start there. 
That way I'd still have my H5D for travel work and fast setup, also as a second tool when on a arch shoot.

I did check with my favorite Hassie dealer, Peter Lorber in Boca Raton and interrupted his Sunday hockey, to learn that
the X1D I have on order will not work with a tech camera.  That was a disappointment.

When I started this thread I was favoring the Sinar arTek from a technical perspective BUT the cost of entry is so high, unless there was a SERIOUS advantage in arch work I am having a very difficult time considering going Sinar's way.

Is that a common deterrent to the arTek that others feel as well?

Jack

Lust4Life

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
    • http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2017, 06:56:13 AM »

Tim Griffith also uses small format (Sony) equipment in addition to medium format. And Scott Frances uses Canon. I think we could go on and on about top APs who use small format equipment. However, Jack says he wants the best technical quality  for his own needs and this is apparently not an economic or workflow consideration for him. That said, I think you have made the point very well that using medium format will not make him more competitive in the marketplace. What will do that is a high level of talent and photographic and business skills.

Perfectly said, and you saved me from having to write what I hoped was obvious when I started this thread.  Thank you David!
Logged
Jack
http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Fuji GFX 50s with Fuji 23mm lens.

Lust4Life

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
    • http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2017, 12:52:39 PM »

Not to cut off my nose to spite my face, I have been exploring the DSLR logic with the Sony Alpha 7Rii.
Found an awful lot of very positive reviews on it, and an old buddy of mine has been shooting it for landscape since it came out
with he Canon TC lenses and loves it..

So, I placed an order with B&H and late last night UPS delivered:
Sony Alpha 7Rii, Nikkor 19mm Tilt/Shift and the Fotodiox adapter that both their sales and technical personnel said would work.

Impressions:
Wow, opened the Alpha box and first impression was amazed by it's size - TINY compared to what I lug around with the H5D 50 WiFi.
Nikkor lens looked great.
Charged up a battery, mounted all great AND ........... Fotodiox will not work with Nikkor 19!  (had this confirmed with another post earlier this morning here on LL)

BUT, I must admit to liking the feel of the Alpha, and the GUI I actually prefer to the Hassie.

So, will return the Nikkor 19 and bring in other Sony lenses to test this puppy out.

Now, lenses I'm thinking of bringing in for test, and keep if the test gives me enough quality to satisfy the Arch. marketplace (I know, I'm just rethinking my prior stand on this.  Go for 95% of the market place demand and just enjoy the journey.)

IF I start with the following, and then add the Nikkor 19 when an adapter becomes available that is excellent quality, if not, add the Canon 17TC:
Zeiss Loxia 21mm f/2.8 Lens for Sony E Mount
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1189220-REG/zeiss_2131_999_loxia_21mm_f_2_8_lens.html

Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f/1.8 ZA Lens
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1008124-REG/sony_sel55f18z_sonnar_t_fe_55mm.html

Zeiss Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Lens for Sony E Mount

Seems I'd have a decent arsenal for landscape and Architectural work.

Thoughts from those that shoot the "little cameras" for arch work would be appreciated.
Logged
Jack
http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Fuji GFX 50s with Fuji 23mm lens.

Chris Barrett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 697
    • www.christopherbarrett.net
Re: Architecture - Ideal high end set up with gear available 2017?
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2017, 05:48:24 PM »

For arch, the 17 & 24 TS-e's are pretty much prerequisite.  And interestingly, Sigma's art series has been kicking butt.  I use a re-housed 18-35 1.8 on my Red and it's stellar.

https://petapixel.com/2017/02/02/sigma-85mm-f1-4-art-lens-awarded-highest-score-ever-dxomark/

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10669
    • Echophoto
Now that you are shooting with an A7RII, this may be interesting…
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2017, 06:25:46 AM »

Hi,

I did a high luminance range test involving some of my shooting gear, Sony A7rII, P45+ and also the Sony Alpha 900 thrown in, as it is contemporary with the P45+.

Here is what I published: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58984278

And here is the raw data: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58984278

Best regards
Erik

Lust4Life

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
    • http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Re: Now that you are shooting with an A7RII, this may be interesting…
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2017, 08:08:00 AM »

Hi,

I did a high luminance range test involving some of my shooting gear, Sony A7rII, P45+ and also the Sony Alpha 900 thrown in, as it is contemporary with the P45+.

Here is what I published: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58984278

And here is the raw data: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58984278

Best regards
Erik

Hello Erik,

Clear winner in that test.  You mentioned Kodak array, that is the vintage of where I got my introduction to digital:  Eikonic, which Kodak bought to get the technology.
A few decades back.

I must admit, though the adapter to mate the Nikkor 19 T/S lens to the R7ii did not allow me to adjust, I did what any frustrated chap would do and said screw it, I'll just run my first impression test with the lens wide open.  Looked at the images last night - "Oh sxxx, that's much better than I expected from this toy" (I'm still trying to take the body seriously due to how tiny it is compare to my H5D 50c WiFi!)  So then I did MY test, flip the file to B&W in CS6, then run the color channel sliders to the extremes and watch the banding occur!

"Hmmm, it's not banding/blocking out cause it can't build a good ramp!"
"Now, that I like!"

I'm going out today IF the weather breaks with the tripod and do this again and re-do the initial little test.

Conclusion:  I did not expect to like what I would get considering the lens was wide open, it's not a 16 bit file, etc.
But I really did, however, it could be just the "first date" syndrome so I will test it again and if I still like, order several working lenses today from B&H.
I like primes for my work so will spend the day deciding what 3 lenses will become the foundation of my Sony system should I accept it.
Will be spending a lot to time at DXOMark today!

Best to you,
Jack
Logged
Jack
http://www.shadowsdancing.com
Fuji GFX 50s with Fuji 23mm lens.

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10669
    • Echophoto
Re: Now that you are shooting with an A7RII, this may be interesting…
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2017, 08:16:53 AM »

Hi Jack,

Two things to keep in mind with the Sony:

- Any multiple exposure mode sets it 12 bit mode.
- Lot of other modes also set it in 12 bit mode.

You may also prefer to use it in uncompressed raw mode.

Best regards
Erik


Hello Erik,

Clear winner in that test.  You mentioned Kodak array, that is the vintage of where I got my introduction to digital:  Eikonic, which Kodak bought to get the technology.
A few decades back.

I must admit, though the adapter to mate the Nikkor 19 T/S lens to the R7ii did not allow me to adjust, I did what any frustrated chap would do and said screw it, I'll just run my first impression test with the lens wide open.  Looked at the images last night - "Oh sxxx, that's much better than I expected from this toy" (I'm still trying to take the body seriously due to how tiny it is compare to my H5D 50c WiFi!)  So then I did MY test, flip the file to B&W in CS6, then run the color channel sliders to the extremes and watch the banding occur!

"Hmmm, it's not banding/blocking out cause it can't build a good ramp!"
"Now, that I like!"

I'm going out today IF the weather breaks with the tripod and do this again and re-do the initial little test.

Conclusion:  I did not expect to like what I would get considering the lens was wide open, it's not a 16 bit file, etc.
But I really did, however, it could be just the "first date" syndrome so I will test it again and if I still like, order several working lenses today from B&H.
I like primes for my work so will spend the day deciding what 3 lenses will become the foundation of my Sony system should I accept it.
Will be spending a lot to time at DXOMark today!

Best to you,
Jack
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up