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Author Topic: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro  (Read 5855 times)

bjanes

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Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« on: January 28, 2017, 08:38:25 am »

I use ACR/LR to process to process most of my Nikon D800e raw files, but now I see that the Lens Correction tool in Capture One Pro 10 has been improved and now includes Lens Diffraction Compensation. This is a feature that compensates for the loss of sharpness and micro contrast that occurs in images shot using small apertures. I presume this is some type of deconvolution algorithm and wonder how it compares to tools that I already have with respect to diffraction mitigation.

LR/ACR have some type of relatively weak deconvolution in LR/ACR by moving the detail slider to the right and we have smart sharpen in Photoshop which uses deconvolution. Deconvolution plugins include Focus Magic, Topaz InFocus and Topaz Detail. Images Plus has good adaptive Richardson-Lucy and van Cittert deconvolution algorithms, although this involves use of a separate program. Finally, RawTherapee has Richardson-Lucy and excellent demosaicing.

Does C! add to what I already have?

Regards,

Bill
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uptownguydenver

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 09:57:10 am »

Here is a blog post that may help answer your questions.

http://blog.phaseone.com/compensate-lost-sharpness-small-apertures/
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 11:37:06 am »

I use ACR/LR to process to process most of my Nikon D800e raw files, but now I see that the Lens Correction tool in Capture One Pro 10 has been improved and now includes Lens Diffraction Compensation. This is a feature that compensates for the loss of sharpness and micro contrast that occurs in images shot using small apertures. I presume this is some type of deconvolution algorithm and wonder how it compares to tools that I already have with respect to diffraction mitigation.

Hi Bill,

'Diffraction correction', as implemented in Capture One 10, is a very useful addition and especially when viewed from a workflow perspective. While the control freak in me would have liked some manual control, it actually does pretty well on automatic. It uses deconvolution (without generating noticeable artifacts) and it needs some EXIF metadata (like aperture number) to do its thing on Raw files. That last bit about Raw is important because it becomes a part of the parametric input for the final rendering. So we have Lateral Chromatic Aberration correction and diffraction deconvolution to improve the rendering of micro-contrast/color. The workflow benefit is in that shots taken with different apertures will look like having almost identical micro-contrast. So shooting scenarios are more liberated from picking a fixed aperture, maybe one a bit wider than preferred, in order to optimize the rendering of detail. Restraint no more, use what is needed for DOF instead.

Unfortunately it is not perfect, but then what is? While it works very good at different shooting distances, it might do fractionally better if the user could adjust for shooting distance. At closer focusing distances the magnification factor increases, and so does the size of the diffraction pattern. So in a perfect world, one would compensate for shorter shooting distances by increasing the radius of the Airy disc pattern PSF. However, as said, the automatic correction does work quite well both on close-up shots as well as on distant subjects. So apparently, their algorithm does pick up some of the required settings from context, rather than from metadata or user input.

The fact that it might be slightly under-correcting, and that it doesn't address other sources of lens/capture-blur, leaves some room for post-processing deconvolution. A cascade of deconvolutions is mathematically equal to a single deconvolution with a larger radius. In addition, we have the opportunity to mix the deconvolution using a diffraction pattern PSF with a subsequent deconvolution that uses a more Gaussian PSF. Best of both worlds?

As a compromise, instead of a Gaussian PSF based deconvolution as second stage, we can already get quite far with USM based sharpening when diffraction blur is mostly absent. For that, the 'Halo suppression' that is now added to the sharpening controls is a very useful addition. Moreover, sharpening with different settings (not only amount) can also be applied in Adjustment layers so that local sharpening adjustments (if need be in multiple layers with different settings for different areas of the image) can be achieved instead of, or in addition to, generic sharpening (which can employ sharpness fall-off sharpening).

Quote
LR/ACR have some type of relatively weak deconvolution in LR/ACR by moving the detail slider to the right and we have smart sharpen in Photoshop which uses deconvolution. Deconvolution plugins include Focus Magic, Topaz InFocus and Topaz Detail. Images Plus has good adaptive Richardson-Lucy and van Cittert deconvolution algorithms, although this involves the use of a separate program. Finally, RawTherapee has Richardson-Lucy and excellent demosaicing.

Yes, we have useful tools, but some of them are needed to compensate for shortcomings in the earlier stages of capturing and rendering our Raw images. If we tackle some of the issues earlier, then we need to do less work later on. A program like Topaz Detail is a bit different because it addresses the modulation of different feature sizes, also those that do not necessarily count as micro-detail AKA sharpening.

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Does C! add to what I already have?

In my opinion, yes. However, excellent tools like FocusMagic and similar come a long way in restoring some of the data but they do require additional postprocessing steps.

It is now possible to create quite well-sharpened output, e.g. for Web publishing, straight from the Raw converter. The output sharpening proofing options in C1 version 10 are another very useful addition for a faster workflow. By activating multiple Process recipes at the same time, C1 is able to render several different versions of a single Raw conversion in one click, e.g. 1 master rendering at full size for further retouching, 1 version for Web publishing, and 1 version for printing at a specific size and PPI. While the multiple outputs were already possible in earlier versions, the fact that they are each individually better sharpened makes it a much more useful feature.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 02:33:59 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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dchew

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 01:39:43 pm »

I do think it is now the best option for raw files. So from that perspective, it does add to what we already have.

I just wish the f-stop field was editable without going to some external exif editor. Is there a reason why this field cannot be edited within C1? Shooting with copal shutters I sometimes forget to manually add the f-stop to the data before firing the electronic shutter.

Dave
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IanSeward

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 02:34:16 pm »


In my opinion, yes. However, excellent tools like FocusMagic and similar come a long way in restoring some of the data but they do require additional postprocessing steps.

It is now possible to create quite well-sharpened output, e.g. for Web publishing, straight from the Raw converter. The output sharpening proofing options in C1 version 10 are another very useful addition for a faster workflow. By activating multiple Process recipes at the same time, C1 is able to render several different versions of a single Raw conversion in one click, e.g. 1 master rendering at full size for further retouching, 1 version for Web publishing, and 1 version for printing at a specific size and PPI. While the multiple outputs were already possible in earlier versions, the fact that they are each individually better sharpened makes it a much more useful feature.

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart
I have tried to evaluate Focus Magic but they limit the number of images you can process during the trial.  By the time I had worked my way around the interface the limit was reached (15-20).

Have you any experience / opinion of Piccure+ ?  This I have been able to test as they place no restriction on number of images.  It is slow if you don't have a NVIDIA graphics card but is designed for batch processing, so set it processing and come back later.  It seems to do a good job both in sharpening and movement reduction and seems to produce less artefacts than FM.  Although as I say that may be because I did not use FM correctly.

Ian
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 05:06:13 am »

Hi Bart
I have tried to evaluate Focus Magic but they limit the number of images you can process during the trial.  By the time I had worked my way around the interface the limit was reached (15-20).

Hi Ian,

Yes, the number of trial operations is a bit limited. A way around it is to only judge the tiny preview in FocusMagic, but not do the actual deconvolution operation, just cancel. That will not affect the trial counter. Then on a limited number of important images do a full execution.

Quote
Have you any experience / opinion of Piccure+ ?  This I have been able to test as they place no restriction on number of images.  It is slow if you don't have a NVIDIA graphics card but is designed for batch processing, so set it processing and come back later.  It seems to do a good job both in sharpening and movement reduction and seems to produce less artefacts than FM.  Although as I say that may be because I did not use FM correctly.

Hard to say what artifacts FM produced, but that is usually the result of too large a 'Blur width' setting (or an excessive Amount). I have looked at Piccure+, but it produced too many artifacts (like dark undershoots at contrasty edges) for my taste. I like that it does attempt to restore from more complex blurs, but it's not always successful. There is also some concern about it mangling the colorspace, but I have not followed it close enough to know if that has been addressed by now. Yes, it is relatively slow, but it is supposed to do more things than 'simply' sharpening, like some lens corrections.

For me, it's a bit too expensive to add to my collection of tools, because it usually does not do significantly better than FocusMagic on regular Capture sharpening type of operations. FocusMagic is pretty hard to beat.

Cheers,
Bart
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IanSeward

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 10:41:26 am »

Hi Ian,

Yes, the number of trial operations is a bit limited. A way around it is to only judge the tiny preview in FocusMagic, but not do the actual deconvolution operation, just cancel. That will not affect the trial counter. Then on a limited number of important images do a full execution.

Hard to say what artifacts FM produced, but that is usually the result of too large a 'Blur width' setting (or an excessive Amount). I have looked at Piccure+, but it produced too many artifacts (like dark undershoots at contrasty edges) for my taste. I like that it does attempt to restore from more complex blurs, but it's not always successful. There is also some concern about it mangling the colorspace, but I have not followed it close enough to know if that has been addressed by now. Yes, it is relatively slow, but it is supposed to do more things than 'simply' sharpening, like some lens corrections.

For me, it's a bit too expensive to add to my collection of tools, because it usually does not do significantly better than FocusMagic on regular Capture sharpening type of operations. FocusMagic is pretty hard to beat.

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart

Thanks for taking the time to reply and for your informative comments.

I will try and get an extended trial for Focus Magic, although I always try and reward company's who provide unrestricted 30 day trials with my business :-)

Regards

Ian
 
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EsbenHR

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 03:39:45 pm »

I just wish the f-stop field was editable without going to some external exif editor. Is there a reason why this field cannot be edited within C1? Shooting with copal shutters I sometimes forget to manually add the f-stop to the data before firing the electronic shutter.

Dave

You should be able to override the aperture in the movement tab in the lens tool. Try to set it af f/32 just to make the effect obvious.

Perhaps the naming is not the best in the world, but it is there because it was intended for technical cameras that does not provide any exif data at all.

Regards,

Esben H-R Myosotis
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 04:23:11 pm »

You should be able to override the aperture in the movement tab in the lens tool. Try to set it af f/32 just to make the effect obvious.

Ah, brilliant Esben. Thanks for that little trick. The upper limit is apparently at f/50, but that becomes less usable due to artifacts, unless there was really that much blur. Of course, it also becomes even more important to shoot at low ISOs, unless the camera/back is ISO invariant because it will be hard to see noise and restored signal apart.

Quote
Perhaps the naming is not the best in the world, but it is there because it was intended for technical cameras that does not provide any exif data at all.

Makes sense. Thanks.

Cheers,
Bart
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dchew

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 05:23:17 pm »

Thank you very much for the explanation!

Dave

You should be able to override the aperture in the movement tab in the lens tool. Try to set it af f/32 just to make the effect obvious.

Perhaps the naming is not the best in the world, but it is there because it was intended for technical cameras that does not provide any exif data at all.

Regards,

Esben H-R Myosotis
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sjprg

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 05:46:14 pm »

While we are on the subject, I've used Image Plus and Focus Magic Bart and I much prefer Sharpen to either of them. Have you done the compare and what did you find? My results is that the auto sharpen is just a tad too much with C1 but almost right on with DXO 11. My results are mixed with PS and I don't use Lightroom.
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Paul

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2017, 06:15:33 am »

You should be able to override the aperture in the movement tab in the lens tool. Try to set it af f/32 just to make the effect obvious.

Perhaps the naming is not the best in the world, but it is there because it was intended for technical cameras that does not provide any exif data at all.

Regards,

Esben H-R Myosotis

Esben,
Just got back home from traveling and have been experimenting with this. Works fine with the Rodenstock lenses that are in the database so thank you! But I am a little confused with how to apply this to my two Schneider lenses, the 60xl and the 150 f/5.6 apo-digitars. C1 opens with the "generic" lens profile. The movement tab fields for Focal Length and Aperture (f) are blank and I cannot edit them. If I select a lens from the list, such as the Schneider Krueznach LS 150 f/3.5, it fills in the Focal Length field and I can then edit the Aperture (f) field. Is this what I should do or am I supposed to be able to edit the Focal Length and Aperture (f) fields when using the "generic" profile?

If I do need to pick a profile from the list, I cannot find any 60mm lens to use so I would have to use a 50, 55 or 70. I'm not sure how much the focal length matters, if at all...?

I imagine the other corrections like Distortion, Sharpness Falloff and Light Falloff are specific to each profile, but if I keep those @ 0% can I get away with choosing another profile in order to apply Diffraction Correction to images shot with the 60 and 150?

Dave
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2017, 07:06:49 am »

While we are on the subject, I've used Image Plus and Focus Magic Bart and I much prefer Sharpen to either of them. Have you done the compare and what did you find? My results is that the auto sharpen is just a tad too much with C1 but almost right on with DXO 11. My results are mixed with PS and I don't use Lightroom.

Hi Paul,

Sharpen Projects does a good job, although I need to adjust the settings quite a bit from default. But it requires a different workflow, and therefore is not as convenient as built-in or plugin solutions. If C1 would offer an 'Advanced' sharpening option in addition to its USM based algorithms, I would be very happy. It would allow me to do even less postprocessing in Photoshop or similar. The addition of Luminosity masking (in adjustment layers) would add even more power to C1, also for sharpening.

Cheers,
Bart
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sjprg

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2017, 07:27:06 am »

Hi Bart: I use C1's batch export to Sharpen which does around 50, 5DSR CR2's in under two minutes so the work flow for large landscapes works fast enough for me. Much faster than ImagesPlus which I like and use for astronomy, but is so much slower. It would be nice to have Sharpen's capability as a part of C1. Maybe they could make a deal with Franzis?
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Paul

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Diffraction mitigation in Capture 10 Pro
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2017, 11:34:32 am »

Hi Bart: I use C1's batch export to Sharpen which does around 50, 5DSR CR2's in under two minutes so the work flow for large landscapes works fast enough for me. Much faster than ImagesPlus which I like and use for astronomy, but is so much slower. It would be nice to have Sharpen's capability as a part of C1. Maybe they could make a deal with Franzis?

They could, but they have enough bright people to do it themselves. It's just a matter of priority and resources, I know because I'm working on something like that myself, and it takes time to develop such a thing. The whole overhaul of the C1 output sharpening functionality, now with a proofing option for preview, shows they will do it if they want/can, and in a clever way.

Cheers,
Bart
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