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Author Topic: Storing unstretched canvses  (Read 1988 times)

Garnick

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Storing unstretched canvses
« on: January 25, 2017, 11:43:35 am »

Hello all,

I have printed a number of canvases that will probably not be stretched for some time.  Since I don't do the stretching myself, I always steer my customers to a local framer who does an excellent job.  I also have her stretch my own canvases as well.  When I hand a canvas over to a customer it is rolled, image out, and in a plastic bag for transport to the framer.  However, since these will not be stretched until ordered, I would like to get some opinions as to the best way to store them.  It would seem that rolling is really the only practical way, but there might be a better way.  In most cases I roll loosely, and as mentioned, with the image side out, since that's the way it will be stretched.  I've always rationalized that rolling image out is best, due to the fact that the canvas and ink are being "stretched" in the direction of the eventual stretch.  Not sure that makes any sense, but it seems logical to me.  Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all,
Gary 
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)

iCanvas

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 08:55:59 am »

I stack them flat and separate them with acid free thin plastic. Rolling them might cause an edge to scratch the printed side. Do you coat your canvas? If you do, you should wait to coat them till sold. Coated canvas, if left for months, will crack when stretched.

Gar
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dgberg

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 10:01:42 am »

Spray too far ahead and they will start to get brittle after a short time based on the temperature..
We did a ton of tests about 5 years ago with Timeless, Glamor II and Print Shield.

(Winter test with shop temp at 55 to 60 degrees.)
The worst for cracking was Print Shield. After about 2 days if you folded a corner it would just snap right at the crease
Second worst was Glamor II. Starts to become brittle after about a week. Glamor also becomes quite amber over time.
Timeless was the best. Most were still pliable after several weeks, not sure I would push them out to a month.
The results were very temperature sensitive.
In the summer the above test results improve dramatically. (Temp above 70 degrees)
Print Shield still is worthless if you are gallery wrapping. Cracks every time. Using it for prints flat mounted the stuff works great.
Timeless and Glamor in the warmer temps do not exhibit cracking for several weeks or more.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 03:32:30 pm by Dan Berg »
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glyph

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2017, 09:17:09 pm »

I haven't used solvent based coatings in ages, but IME, Eco Print Shield, the water borne version from Premier Art, has the best durability and flexibility.  That's based on my own empirical evidence, using Glamour II, Timeless, Lexjet and Hahnemuhle aqueous coatings. YMMV
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Garnick

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 01:19:56 pm »

Spray too far ahead and they will start to get brittle after a short time based on the temperature..
We did a ton of tests about 5 years ago with Timeless, Glamor II and Print Shield.

(Winter test with shop temp at 55 to 60 degrees.)
The worst for cracking was Print Shield. After about 2 days if you folded a corner it would just snap right at the crease
Second worst was Glamor II. Starts to become brittle after about a week. Glamor also becomes quite amber over time.
Timeless was the best. Most were still pliable after several weeks, not sure I would push them out to a month.
The results were very temperature sensitive.
In the summer the above test results improve dramatically. (Temp above 70 degrees)
Print Shield still is worthless if you are gallery wrapping. Cracks every time. Using it for prints flat mounted the stuff works great.
Timeless and Glamor in the warmer temps do not exhibit cracking for several weeks or more.

Dan - Thank you for such an in depth description of the research you've done surrounding this topic.  You have answered a couple of rather nagging questions I've been struggling with.  I send my
         canvas customers to a local framer for stretching, and very seldom does she find any problem with the Print Shield cracking.  There have been a few occasions where she has fixed the
         problem and then let me know what later, but very few indeed.  However, with some effort I seem to recall that those infrequent occasions would usually happen during the dry winter
         months, which would seem to coincide with your research.  A while back we encountered an issue where two canvases for the same customer actually started to crack/peel in the middle of
         the image, but not the edges or corners.  It appeared that perhaps the canvas had some sort of imperfection in those areas that prevented the inkjet receptor from adhering properly, and
         therefore was prone to peeling after stretching, since the peel did not appear immediately.  I photographed the peeling sections and had intended to send the pics to Breathing Color
         along with the story behind them, but time got away from me and I had never experienced that issue again.  Was it canvas related, or was it coating related?  I will admit that at this point
         I'm tempted to go with the latter, after reading your post.  One of the problems is that when I send a customer or one of my own canvases to the framer, it might take a couple of weeks for
         her to get at it, or more.  According to the information provided here by yourself and Gar, that could very well be the major cause of any cracking/peeling issues, especially during the winter
         season.  After my move and downsizing I will no longer be producing canvas any larger than what the 24" printer will handle, and perhaps I'll decide to stretch them myself as well and leave
         them uncoated until necessary.

One more question.  I have always printed on the Breathing Color Chromata White Matte canvas, and applied three coats of Print Shield as suggested.  If I were to change over to one of the Satin finish canvases and still apply the same coating, do you think that might have any advantage concerning the cracking issue?  With the Matte canvas the first coat seems to soak into the ink receptor pretty quickly, and therefore perhaps lend itself to cracking more easily.  Perhaps the Satan canvas may not exhibit the same sort of absorption and therefore not be as prone to cracking.  Not sure if any of that makes sense, or perhaps just my crooked way of thinking.  Perhaps one of you fellows can take a stab at answering that as well, or at least offering your much valued opinion.

Thanks again Dan and Gar,
Gary         


     
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 07:20:34 pm by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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dgberg

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 02:56:03 pm »

Just to be clear, the Print Shield I tested was the spray solvent.
I have never tried the Eco print Shield which is water based.
I do pretty light coats mainly because they dry much quicker.
With the mixture I use 2 coats is usually sufficient. When adding a third coat it bumps the finish from a nice satin to a perfect semi gloss.
I cannot answer the satin caves issue as I have never tried it.
Run some samples with satin canvas and different topcoats and see how they turn out. I would be interested in your results.

Garnick

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 07:31:07 pm »

Just to be clear, the Print Shield I tested was the spray solvent.
I have never tried the Eco print Shield which is water based.
I do pretty light coats mainly because they dry much quicker.
With the mixture I use 2 coats is usually sufficient. When adding a third coat it bumps the finish from a nice satin to a perfect semi gloss.
I cannot answer the satin caves issue as I have never tried it.
Run some samples with satin canvas and different topcoats and see how they turn out. I would be interested in your results.

Hi Dan,

Since I'm kind of in the middle of a move to my home and downsizing to a 24' Printer I won't have time for these tests until at least the first part of March.  I do use the Eco Print Shield and have had very few issues, but yesterday after reading your reply I unrolled a couple of canvas that have been stored unstretched for some time.  In both cases the crack test did not pass muster, so they are garbage obviously.  Or I suppose they could still be stretched for frames, therefore not showing the cracked edges.  Either way I will definitely be running some of my own tests and will pass along the results.

Thanks again Dan,
Gary
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Gary N.
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schrimsher2017

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 05:55:05 am »

I am a newby with a lot to learn.  Does anyone coat the canvas after it is stretched, or is there a reason for doing it before?  I have been making several prints and storing them until  I have time to frame several at once.  I am storing them flat and uncoated.
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Garnick

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 09:29:49 am »

I am a newby with a lot to learn.  Does anyone coat the canvas after it is stretched, or is there a reason for doing it before?  I have been making several prints and storing them until  I have time to frame several at once.  I am storing them flat and uncoated.

I can think of at least a couple of reasons to coat before stretching, depending on the canvas finish and the coating procedure.  For many years I've been printing on matte canvas and then applying three coats of Eco Print Shield(aqueous based).  Anyone who prints on a matte surface, be it canvas or fine art papers, would I'm sure agree that the matte finish requires a very sensitive touch and careful handling, especially in the deeper tones and black areas of the image.  It takes only a slight brush of a finger in those dark tones to burnish the inks and make it appear as a lighter part of the image.  Taking that into account, can you imagine stretching a matte finish canvas with no coating?  The procedure is akin to a form of abuse in some respects, and abuse is not what you want with a matte finish.  Hence, the need for coating before stretching when printing on matte canvas.  Another reason is the method of coating.  If it is sprayed on after stretching I don't really see it being an issue, but I'm sure some will disagree.  Since I do not stretch my own canvases I am therefore at the mercy of those who do, they're the experts on that matter.  I roll the coating, and a flat, smooth base for the canvas to lay on is paramount with this method.  Therefore I cannot imagine rolling a coating on a stretched canvas, no matter the surface(matte, satin or gloss).  Others will probably have further reasons, both for an against such a procedure.  This is strictly my opinion, one among many.

Gary 


   
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 09:37:14 am by Garnick »
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Gary N.
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dgberg

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Re: Storing unstretched canvses
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 10:25:09 am »

The suggested way would be to print your canvas and store flat unfinished. The more you handle them (rolling) the higher chance of damage.
Then just finish before stretching, roll or spray.
Very easy to damage the inks at the corners if you have not pre coated them.
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