Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D  (Read 75816 times)

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« on: January 20, 2017, 11:45:23 am »

Those of you who know both Hasselblad color and Fujifilm still-camera color, what can we expect? The GFX has more of what I need in a camera for the work I do, but the X1D is like a Jaguar XKE. I am probably getting the GFX (both cameras are on order), but my only worry is will I like the Fuji color or is it some variant that is an acquired taste? Any help would be appreciated, please.
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

JKevinScott

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 12:06:24 pm »

I should have both in hand within two weeks (fingers crossed that the X1D doesn't get hung up in customs, and that the information I'm getting about my GFX is accurate) and was planning on posting some side-by-side comparisons shortly thereafter.  I'll post RAWs so that folks can form their own opinions based on how the files look after you've had a go at them with your favorite processing software.  I'll also post JPEGs.  Perhaps that will help, although I'll cross my fingers for you that your orders get filled before then.  :)

My guess is that you're going to have fairly similar color performance across the two cameras if you're processing RAWs, especially if you're doing color calibration.  The GFX with Fujifilm's pretty well-thought-through in-camera film simulation modes, is going to probably be better, or at least give you more choices around how colors are rendered, if what you're looking for are usable JPEGs right out of the camera.
Logged

TimoK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 12:19:59 pm »

Very pleasant color here at Petapixel
The author Adrian Murray is called Lightroom expert but I wonder also GFX makes good job in color.
Logged

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 12:27:46 pm »

Very pleasant color here at Petapixel
The author Adrian Murray is called Lightroom expert but I wonder also GFX makes good job in color.

Nice photos, but too saturated and dark for my taste. I am sure we will see many comparisons in the next weeks. I would like to see, side-by-side comparison of the X1D and the GFX.
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

TimoK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 12:38:45 pm »

Nice photos, but too saturated and dark for my taste. I am sure we will see many comparisons in the next weeks. I would like to see, side-by-side comparison of the X1D and the GFX.
I agree, too saturated but I see something beautiful in those. I also wait for real comparisons and tests.
Logged

Chris Barrett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 730
    • www.christopherbarrett.net
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 12:56:56 pm »

I have an XT-1 and Fuji's digital imaging kinda reminds me of Velvia.

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 01:15:13 pm »

Helpful, but what I would most appreciateare the virtues and differences between Hasselblad color and Fuji still-camera color.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 01:18:45 pm by Michael Erlewine »
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8914
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 01:18:57 pm »

Helpful, but what I would most appreciate is the virtues and differences between Hasselblad color and Fuji still-camera color.

Color depends on the profile used and Raw converter preferences. Both cameras can be made to look similar.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 01:28:34 pm »

Color depends on the profile used and Raw converter preferences. Both cameras can be made to look similar.

Cheers,
Bart

They both have the same sensor as I understand it, but how has the sensor in each been tweaked. I am glad that they can be made to look the same, but what is the "same," or do you mean each can emulate to the other? I wantto  purchase one of these, and am leaning toward the GFX, but not if it has "inferior" color, however that word might apply to standard MF images.  I realize that I am asking the world, here, but some hints may be Enough. If they both are great, good. Would hate to purchase one and find that everyone feels the other has better color, etc.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 02:06:19 pm by Michael Erlewine »
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8914
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 02:41:49 pm »

They both have the same sensor as I understand it, but how has the sensor in each been tweaked.

Basically, only the Bayer CFA could be a bit different, but they are usually quite similar in their transmission characteristics. The Out of Camera (OOC) color is a choice but with a manually made profile they can be made to look just like you prefer (within limits, because color based on just 3 channels is a huge problem to solve for human observers). A tool like DCAMprof, see here, can assist in synchronizing between different cameras, or create a user preferred color response.

Quote
I am glad that they can be made to look the same, but what is the "same," or do you mean each can emulate to the other?

Yes, each other, or both the same, or both to a personal flavor.

Quote
I want purchase one of these, and am leaning toward the GFX, but not if it has "inferior" color, however that word might apply to standard MF images.  I realize that I am asking the world, here, but some hints may be Enough. If they both are great, good. Would hate to purchase one and find that everyone feels the other has better color, etc.

I expect the image quality of both to be good (after profiling), but do also look at supporting software options and lens options, and features that may be unique for a model. The articulating LCD is e.g. very useful for some of the macro work you do.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 03:29:14 pm »

Alan Lesheim, a photographer with great experience, over on the Fotozones.com forum, in a similar discussion said:

“Fuji on the other hand make a point of saying that their colour is "film-like", which to me is a bit vague. What I notice about Fuji is that the colour to me looks very natural in spectrum balance, but perhaps slightly more vivid than I perceive colour myself (that could just be my age). It'll be interesting to see files from both cameras side-by-side, my guess is that the Hasselblad will have a slightly more "European" softer look to the colour, and the Fuji will have a slightly more vivid rendition. As far as my X-Trans colour goes, I often find myself slightly backing off the saturation overall, something I think will be neutral or maybe even the opposite with Hasselblad, probably having to tickle the saturation upwards on occasion.”

Personally I don’t care for HDR or any of its relatives, so I hope he is not suggesting the Fugi will be garish with colors. If they can be walked back to the “European” style, good. This is what I have to figure out. I will no doubt get the X1D first and have to keep it or send it back, and the GFX second, so chances are I won’t have both at the same time. So, please, anyone who finds a direct comparison, do let me know.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:39:32 pm by Michael Erlewine »
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 04:08:57 pm »

Color has always been IMHO the strongest area of Fuji digital offerings, that and lenses look.

Hassy has been focsing on color a lot also, my bet would be that it will be a matter of preference.

If you use LR you may not see that much difference at all.

Cheers,
Bernard

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2017, 04:20:08 pm »

Color has always been IMHO the strongest area of Fuji digital offerings, that and lenses look.

Hassy has been focsing on color a lot also, my bet would be that it will be a matter of preference.

If you use LR you may not see that much difference at all.

Cheers,
Bernard

I use Photoshop and ACR. Am realizing that I need what the GFX offers, like a remote cable connection, the Retina-grade LiveView, which is all I use anymore, the future opportunity to use LF lenses on the GFX, the tiltable rear screen, etc. I appreciate the more svelte look and feel of the X1D, but aside for travel, I don't need it. 
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2017, 05:13:34 pm »

Personnally I find the Fuji the superior option.

The support of HC lenses fixed the only concern I had with it.

Cheers,
Bernard

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 06:02:32 pm »

Personnally I find the Fuji the superior option.

The support of HC lenses fixed the only concern I had with it.

Cheers,
Bernard

Well, my concern, as mentioned is color between the two cameras. Any thoughts on that please?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 06:09:01 pm by Michael Erlewine »
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

DanielStone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 664
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2017, 10:25:58 pm »

Just be patient, wait for both camera systems to become available so you can either rent or try them out yourself. Besides, I'm sure there will be some bugs in the system, let them get ironed out and proceed once you're settled and have compared the two systems yourself...

Seriously folks, is waiting a couple months(or more, if Hasselblad can't get their sh** together) THAT bloody hard?

Logged

BobShaw

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2218
    • Aspiration Images
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2017, 10:39:43 pm »

Well, my concern, as mentioned is color between the two cameras. Any thoughts on that please?
Exactly. There is good colour and there is correct colour. Correct colour is the only acceptable result if doing art reproduction, product and fashion. Here Hasselblad excels with Phocus.
Logged
Website - http://AspirationImages.com
Studio and Commercial Photography

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 05:44:56 am »

Hi,

It is not that simple, correct colour is not the same as pleasant colour.

That said, Hasselblad's Phocus is known to yield very good colour.

If we use Fuji with say Lightroom, the camera profile would be decided by Adobe and Adobe's recent profiles may not be everyone's liking. Fuji could of course ship a good DCP profile with it's cameras, or even have DNG as file format and embed a camera specific DCP profile.

Best regards
Erik

Exactly. There is good colour and there is correct colour. Correct colour is the only acceptable result if doing art reproduction, product and fashion. Here Hasselblad excels with Phocus.
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

Michael Erlewine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
    • MacroStop.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2017, 06:26:40 am »

For me, the handling of color is more important than most of the rest of the physical differences between the X1D and the GFX, this early out. Although he is now an ambassador for Hasselblad, that is relatively recent, and I have followed Ming Thein for years. He has always been clear and unflinching in his reviews and comments, so I trust him as much as any online-authority I am aware of. Ming Thein is critical of all equipment, so if he uses Hasselblad, it is because he likes what it does. When I asked him on his blog about the Hasselblad vs. the Fuji approach to color, here is what he said.

MT: “Color: most of the world likes saturation to the nines; I can’t stand it because it makes processing very difficult, and getting accurate color for product work near-impossible. Hasselblad color is natural/accurate as opposed to pleasing: the cameras require the least profiling I’ve experienced, and they’re near-identical in color profile across the entire range (CCD included). You can saturate a Hasselblad file easily and control the peaks/rolloffs, but you can’t desaturate a ‘consumer’ file without it looking odd – the channels may well have clipped.”

ME: I then asked Ming Thein something to the effect that since you are also familiar with the Fuji color approach, do you feel that the GFX color will be as manageable as Hasselblad?

MT: “If they [Fuji] stick to the same color profile as their other cameras, honestly, no: the blues always run cyan, and the shadows block up quickly to extend highlights. This may be different on the GFX sensor, but I don’t think it’s going to solve the cyan shift since that seems to be part of the family ‘look’.”

What he says adds up to the other feedback I am getting from experts like Alan Lesheim, that there are “family” differences between the two companies approach to color. Which color-family we choose is up to our preference. I, for one, don’t care for HDR or any trace of that style, so that leans me toward working with the X1D rather than the GFX, unless (and until) I see physical proof in photos to the contrary. If the GFX leans toward “vivid,” then I won’t like that. My problem is that I cannot afford to have both cameras on-hand, and I have put in orders for each. I will get (now I’m guessing) the X1D first and have to keep it or return it before I get ahold of the GFX.

I hope these comments are helpful. Please don’t bother to disparage Ming Thein’s comments just because he is loosely associated with Hasselblad. With some folks, bias may be true, but I don’t believe it is true in Thein’s case. I read what he says. Either Fuji has blues which tend to run cyan, etc. or not. 
Logged
MichaelErlewine.smugmug.com. Founder MacroStop.com, MichaelErlewine.com, YouTube.com/user/merlewine

Christopher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1499
    • http://www.hauser-photoart.com
Re: Color with the Fuji GFX as Compared to the Hasselblad X1D
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2017, 07:09:30 am »

It all sounds nice but why do you care as other stated you can profile both cameras dot hat YOU like them.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Logged
Christopher Hauser
[email=chris@hauser-p
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Up