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Author Topic: Leica M10 Review  (Read 27951 times)

Sal_VE

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2017, 03:33:01 am »

I agree that is not possible to remove all variables. There will Always be differences between the 2 test. Although I will post two samples of the same shot, with the following:
- Sony 7Mr2 + adapter+ 50 summicron M
- Leica M240, same lens
same aperture, same exposure. Both raw and no curve applied (C1 linear curve)
Beside the obvious difference in file size, there is a slight difference in tonal rendering along the Whole scale of darks trough highlights. This difference is reflected in the color rendering.
Is it dynamic range? Perhaps.
The difference is even stronger using sony's lens. But here I add another variable
As soon as I can locate those file in my Archives they'll be posted for your evaluation.
As you say, I'm very happy with my Leica results. Happier with film, for what is my pictorial ideal.
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Rob C

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2017, 06:28:42 am »

I agree that is not possible to remove all variables. There will Always be differences between the 2 test. Although I will post two samples of the same shot, with the following:
- Sony 7Mr2 + adapter+ 50 summicron M
- Leica M240, same lens
same aperture, same exposure. Both raw and no curve applied (C1 linear curve)
Beside the obvious difference in file size, there is a slight difference in tonal rendering along the Whole scale of darks trough highlights. This difference is reflected in the color rendering.
Is it dynamic range? Perhaps.
The difference is even stronger using sony's lens. But here I add another variable
As soon as I can locate those file in my Archives they'll be posted for your evaluation.
As you say, I'm very happy with my Leica results. Happier with film, for what is my pictorial ideal.


Re film, I agree wholeheartedly. But, I simply don't want to go back to the time-lag that the process inevitably involves, and the logistics here in the Med are too annoying to be worth the effort.

Rob

alainbriot

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2017, 07:14:35 pm »

What I both like with Leica is that the M series was able to move from film to digital capture with no major modifications of the camera except that capture is now digital instead of film.  It's a classy transition that brings users the advantages of digital capture without losing the characteristics that made Leica Ms popular and succesful.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2017, 07:23:26 pm »

What I both like with Leica is that the M series was able to move from film to digital capture with no major modifications of the camera except that capture is now digital instead of film.  It's a classy transition that brings users the advantages of digital capture without losing the characteristics that made Leica Ms popular and succesful.

True, but can the same not be said of DSLRs and MF cameras too?

- I use my D810 the same way I used to use my F100
- There is basically no difference between an Hassy H1 and a H6D-100c
- ...

Cheers,
Bernard

alainbriot

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2017, 07:30:24 pm »

True, but can the same not be said of DSLRs and MF cameras too?

- I use my D810 the same way I used to use my F100
- There is basically no difference between an Hassy H1 and a H6D-100c
- ...

Cheers,
Bernard

I have no experience with these two cameras so I'll take your word for it.  The main difference with the Leica M is how long it has been around, being the first camera to have made use of 35mm film.  For me the fact that Leica Ms still don't have autofocus is the most remarkable aspect.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 07:35:12 pm by alainbriot »
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Alain Briot
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2017, 10:19:03 pm »

I have no experience with these two cameras so I'll take your word for it.  The main difference with the Leica M is how long it has been around, being the first camera to have made use of 35mm film.  For me the fact that Leica Ms still don't have autofocus is the most remarkable aspect.

I find those very hard to focus accurately, but the M is indeed a nice option.

Cheers,
Bernard

adias

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2017, 10:35:57 pm »

... the Leica M  ... being the first camera to have made use of 35mm film. 

I do not think Leica was the first manufacturer of 35mm cameras - LINK.
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alainbriot

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2017, 11:41:56 pm »

I do not think Leica was the first manufacturer of 35mm cameras - LINK.

Thanks for the history lesson.  I had no idea.  However, none had the impact of the Leica, certainly not on me since I had never heard of them.
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Rob C

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2017, 03:40:37 am »

Thanks for the history lesson.  I had no idea.  However, none had the impact of the Leica, certainly not on me since I had never heard of them.


I had no idea either; just goes to show the value of a powerful trumpet! (No pun intended - at first.)

Advertise or tell a fib long enough and the world believes it. Wish I'd known that when I was younger...

Rob C
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 05:57:24 pm by Rob C »
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Telecaster

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2017, 04:16:53 pm »

Lots of "firsts" are actually just commercially successful firsts. Which is nothing to sneer at. Leo Fender didn't invent the solidbody electric guitar…he just designed & built the first one that really worked well. And with the help of Fender Sales & its first-class promotional skills that guitar caught on with musicians. Et voilà!

-Dave-
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adias

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2017, 10:03:08 pm »

I simply checked the statement as I recalled other manufacturers had 35mm cameras before Leitz. But boy, did I ruffle a few feathers, sensitivities, or biases. :)
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Rob C

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2017, 03:57:34 am »

I simply checked the statement as I recalled other manufacturers had 35mm cameras before Leitz. But boy, did I ruffle a few feathers, sensitivities, or biases. :)


How so? All you did was show that there had been other stills users of cine film before the Leica was made. I would have considered your link as interesting, not at all combative or negative, so no ruffled feathers - at least as far as I can see.

Of course, whether or not your position had been to cause upset is another matter, which only you will know.

As it stands, thank you for the link which I found interesting.

Rob C

alainbriot

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2017, 12:14:08 pm »

I simply checked the statement as I recalled other manufacturers had 35mm cameras before Leitz. But boy, did I ruffle a few feathers, sensitivities, or biases. :)

It certainly did not ruffle my feathers as you put it.  I sell art you know ;-) If this was all it takes to ruffle me out I'd be out of business!
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roscoetuff

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2017, 07:55:12 am »

Well.... I don't second guess. I love the idea that Leica is actually listening to their base and anticipate this will lead to good things. I also like they didn't RAISE the  price into the stratosphere. I'd love to have one. This is the first digital Leica where the specs seem to hit all the right spots. Maybe they missed on the megapixels in sticking at 24, but even then... as a camera that shoots in their defined style, I'm sure they'll be forgiven.

For my part, the price point from the outside - with no M mount lenses is just too high. I couldn't even swing for an old digital Leica because "why buy a cheap VW when you really want a Porsche?" If you're going to want to buy that Porsche, the VW just raises the price. So I bought a Leica M4-2 as a platform to shoot B&W and gather a few M-mount lenses figuring if I didn't like it, the exit wouldn't cost much either. I'm very happy with my Zeiss ZM lenses by the way, and not feeling this was a mistake at all. Now if the M10 prices will just suddenly come into range, it's a much smaller step.

Great review! Great pics as always.
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donbga

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2017, 09:46:32 am »

Well.... I don't second guess. I love the idea that Leica is actually listening to their base and anticipate this will lead to good things. I also like they didn't RAISE the  price into the stratosphere. I'd love to have one. This is the first digital Leica where the specs seem to hit all the right spots. Maybe they missed on the megapixels in sticking at 24, but even then... as a camera that shoots in their defined style, I'm sure they'll be forgiven.

For my part, the price point from the outside - with no M mount lenses is just too high. I couldn't even swing for an old digital Leica because "why buy a cheap VW when you really want a Porsche?" If you're going to want to buy that Porsche, the VW just raises the price. So I bought a Leica M4-2 as a platform to shoot B&W and gather a few M-mount lenses figuring if I didn't like it, the exit wouldn't cost much either. I'm very happy with my Zeiss ZM lenses by the way, and not feeling this was a mistake at all. Now if the M10 prices will just suddenly come into range, it's a much smaller step.

Great review! Great pics as always.

I'll keep my Zeiss Ikon ZM thank you! I've always wanted that Red-Dot feeling but my wallet always pushed back.
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Rob C

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2017, 11:13:41 am »

I'll keep my Zeiss Ikon ZM thank you! I've always wanted that Red-Dot feeling but my wallet always pushed back.


Thank your wallet, then.

True stealth bombers hide red dots and adopt camouflage. Your wallet knows you don't need that camera, and that it would only get you into trouble.

;-)

Rob C

budjames

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2017, 03:38:06 am »

Kevin,

I know that you are Fuji X user like myself. I was curious if you found the DNG files from the M10/Summilux combination containing more detail on dynamic range than the RAF files from the Fuji XT2?

Thanks for a nice review.

www.budjames.photography
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Kevin Raber

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2017, 01:01:03 pm »

Bud, Both files are really good.  I process my Fuji files in Capture One and I'm able to really nice shadow detail out of them.  The M10 files are worked through Lightroom.  They are DNG.  While I got good shadow detail in LR Shadow recovery I still think C1 may be a bit more refined in that area.  You won't be disappointed with the M10 files.  they have a look that makes them unique and quite nice.  Kind of vague I know. But I did not do a side by side to look at these two different files.  Borrow an M10 from one of the Leica stores and give it a try.
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budjames

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2017, 06:56:32 am »

Kevin,

I set aside all sensibilities and fiscal responsibility and ordered the Leica M10 along with the Summicron 35mm f2 and Summilux 50mm f1.4 lenses and the Fuji Leica M adapter from B&H Photo last week.  The Summilux lens and Fuji adapter shipped and I should receive these today. The M10 and Summicron are on backorder with no information as to when these will ship.

I have lusted for Leica since high school (I graduated in 1973). I never could justify the cost, but now finances are good and I just feel that I must own one to check off another box on my bucket list. Oh, I am so spoiled!

I was curious if you have any experience using Leica glass on a Fuji X body? If so, I am interested in hearing your comments.

Thanks again for a great review.

Regards,
Bud James

www.budjames.photography
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 06:48:14 am by budjames »
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Kevin Raber

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Re: Leica M10 Review
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2017, 07:29:29 am »

Bud, you can't go wrong - period.  There is nothing like Leica Glass, especially M.  I have been shooting the last few weeks with the M10, TL2 and SL. I will make a small Facebook live video on the TL2 and SL tonight.  I have just spent a week with Leica and we have quite a bit of Leica content that will start to appear on LuLa in November.  Poos Chris is editing his fingers off.  The M10 is a different camera to shoot with.  You need to realize that and embrace it.  Then the fun begins.  I am not sure I'd shoot on the Fuji.  The M10 is the same MP and delivers its own file which will soon see is nice and buttery and has its own charm.  So, I never M glass on the Fuji.  I did shoot M glass on the Leica SL and it was fun.  A Little lens on a big camera. My recommendation is to embrace the m10 and enjoy the method of shooting with it.  The Fuji glass is so good on its own and works so well with the Fuji I wouldn't even cross shoot them. 

Have fun, enjoy slowing down a bit.  I'll share what I was told by the gentleman that designs Leica glass.  Shoot wide open.  Stop down to only get the DOF you need for your shot.  Leica glass is meant to be shot wide open.  The true magic of the glass comes out when you do that.

Good luck.  Keep me posted.  If you need any help PM me.
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