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Author Topic: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store  (Read 12979 times)

bluesplayer43

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2017, 05:36:32 PM »

I grew up with Windows and have always felt comfortable with MS Windows environment. However, many of my photography friends were migrating to MAC's and some work associates too, and all were singing their praises. The devices Apple were designing all looked so much cooler than any Windows device and extremely tempting. Eventually I acquired an iPhone and iPad, and after being impressed by them, I eventually splashed out on a MacBook Pro. A great looking machine, don't get me wrong, but while I enjoyed the simplicity of IOS, with Mac OS I just have never felt 'as' comfortable with. Apple hides so much from the user and I felt you have to do things the Apple way or no way, whereas with Windows you have the complete freedom to tweak just about anything you want. Mac OS seems so dumbed down in coparison. Windows has had it stability issues for sure, but I have had my fair share of Mac OS crashes too. I'm not a fan of Windows 10, and for me Windows 7 was and still is the best looking GUI.

When Jobs was at the helm, Apple were undoubtedly the market leaders, but they have dropped the baton as late. Whilst Jony Ive is a great designer of the sleekest of hardware, he has in my opinion, wrecked IOS. I just donít see the point of having ultra-high resolution screens, then dumping skeuomorphism, and making everything flat and boring, and using skinny fonts that old farts like me find hard to read. The trouble is, everybody follows Apple and Windows 10 is also dull, flat and boring. I feel GUI's have taken a huge step backwards over the last few years.

Here in the UK Apple has also become very expensive, and now that I'm approaching retirement age, cost is an issue. It's not just the cost of the machines, put any peripheral, adapter or cable, whether it be from Apple of third party cost 2 to 3 times that of a windows PC equivalent. Software is the same too, and whilst most major packages are close in cost,  minor applications for the Mac always seem to be charged at premium prices, whereas the Windows equivalent are often free, and more often than not, much more sophisticated.

At the end of the day for me, I find Windows a much more productive environment. When time came to upgrade my desktop I chose a bespoke Windows machine, not a Mac. It may not look great (dull black box) but itís powerful, boots up 64-bit Windows 7 in 11 seconds and is fully upgradeable.

As for my MacBook Pro. Well Iím using it to type this postÖ in Windows.
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John Camp

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2017, 09:28:54 PM »

I have little doubt that Nikon and Canon are fully equivalent, but I always have used Nikon because I have always used Nikon -- Nikon is both in my head and hands, and the advantages of Canon (whatever they might have been) were not large enough to move me away from what I know. I'm still with Apple for the same reason, but that reason seems to be increasingly less viable.

I used PCs when they were all I could afford, and as I got more affluent, I moved to Macs. I'm not a computer guy and I'm not much interested in computers; I want one that works like a toaster, and Apple was better in that regard than Windows before Win7 and 8 and now 10. Like Kevin, I visited a Microsoft store (in the Mall of America, directly across the hall from the Apple store) and spent some time fooling around with Windows 10 machines. Bottom line was this: I needed a new laptop, and I bought (that same day,) at a Best Buy, a 2016 MacBook Pro, even though new MacBooks were out. It had everything I really need for the moment in a laptop -- but in its arrogance, Apple had pretty much crippled the newest MacBook Pros (IMHO) with their lack of ports, especially for photographers. (My one-generation-earlier machine even has an SD port.) Right now, I'm completely Apple, but that's under review. In two or three years, I'll be ready for a substantial update of my computer systems, and Windows is definitely a candidate. It'll be like moving to Canon from Nikon -- the results will be just as good, but there'll be some awkwardness at first, I'm sure. But after a year or so, it shouldn't be a problem.
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GrahamBy

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2017, 05:12:56 AM »

The irony is that the existence of a "Microsoft Store" store is an Apple phenomenon: As a long time PC guy, I would never think of buying a machine from Microsoft. For home, I buy the individual parts; at work I order a box from Dell or HP or whoever our vendor of the moment is. The notion of hardware and software are as disjoint in my mind as camera and film was 20 years back, and although Kodak made cameras, that wasn't their main line of business.
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Rob C

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2017, 06:08:14 AM »

The irony is that the existence of a "Microsoft Store" store is an Apple phenomenon: As a long time PC guy, I would never think of buying a machine from Microsoft. For home, I buy the individual parts; at work I order a box from Dell or HP or whoever our vendor of the moment is. The notion of hardware and software are as disjoint in my mind as camera and film was 20 years back, and although Kodak made cameras, that wasn't their main line of business.

The only off-the-shelf computer I bought was a Vista-loaded acer. The others were built to order. My original XP is a grey box and my current 8.1 unit is a black thing. Had an HP laptop once, courtesy my daughter, but when the machine died I didn't want another laptop. I don't even want a so-called tablet. I find a smartphone bother enough to cart around, and it's always off unless I want to use it. Likewise I have nothing to do with Facebook, Twitter or anything else like that. Never needed them before they existed. I still refuse to become slave to yet more things that have to be remembered, guarded or picked up and taken with you should you happen to be having a coffee or meal somewhere alone and decide you need to go take a leak. And the latter also applies to photographic gear. Walking a camera to the can is bother enough, and hindrance enough to fulfilling the purpose of the little walk; imagine a camera case on your shoulder too! One camera one lens at any one time not only concentrates the creative mind, but is physically convenient, too!

From the design perspective and the knocks Apple gets: well, people always praised the looks of the products, so inevitably that's where Apple feels obliged to concentate its effort. Exactly the same phenomenon as getting hooked on any target market with one's pictures: if the way you're doing it works you get scared to move on.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 06:11:44 AM by Rob C »
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prairiewing

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2017, 01:30:00 PM »

I spend a lot of time on my computer but I'm not a computer guy.  I started on a Mac because I had some artist friends who all used Macs and I know they weren't computer people either.  I also have an iPhone and an iPad and they all seem to work pretty well together.  When I buy a new Mac it's always been pretty easy to get everything from the old one to the new one.  I know its easy because I can do it.  If it wasn't, I wouldn't be able to.

Some people have told me PC's are better.  I believe them.  I'm just not smart enough to use 'em.
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Pat Gerlach



Pat Gerlach, Photographer
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Rand47

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2017, 02:08:50 PM »

I just published a NEW Rantatorial about my experience recently with a disappointment in Apple and my journey into a Microsoft store. 

https://luminous-landscape.com/rantatorial/true-confessions-walked-microsoft-store/

I've never walked into a Microsoft store.  But I have a custom built PC w/ the latest and greatest I7 chip, 32 gigs of fast ram, two SSD and one 2 tb platter, loads of USB 3 ports, DVD drive, very good video card - and it cost me a whopping $1700.00 with on-site service.

Funny, Photoshop and Lightroom look exactly the same as on a Mac.   ;D

Rand
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Rand Scott Adams

paristo

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2017, 08:18:58 AM »

I just published a NEW Rantatorial about my experience recently with a disappointment in Apple and my journey into a Microsoft store. 

https://luminous-landscape.com/rantatorial/true-confessions-walked-microsoft-store/

I read You out and clear....
First of all, first timer here and fresh subscriber. Finally got bitten as seek for a more sensible content than usual locations. So Hi to everyone!

Okay, to the topic....
I am writing this from a Microsoft Surface 3 Pro (i3 model, 64GB SSD) that I purchased a three months ago for testing purpose, paying a $400 in used condition. Came with the pen + blue keyboard.

So how about this Microsoft Surface? I knew exactly what I was buying... A bad tablet, a bad laptop but a nice drawing tablet replacement. I was never going to pay a $899 for a new one when Surface Pro 3 was announced. I said so and I said that if I could get one below $500 I would buy one. So couple years later came by by accident a second hand offer and I standed up my words and bought it. Even when I disliked every thing in it that it standed for.

So why? I am not Apple customer. I dislike every Apple device myself personally. Every thing in their devices is what I don't like in my workflow. But that is my workflow, my needs and requirements. Yet I love how they have managed to keep things simple and efficient for people who don't want to use computers! I recommend Apple for most people who I love or just have met, if they are the person who fit the category "Apple profile".

Microsoft has never managed to do anything "well" but they have done "correctly" so things works. And the last things was really that Microsoft would release their Surface Studio instead Apple. But it was expected as 2004-2005 when Jeff Hong (or something, don't recall name correctly) started the company that build the big touch screens as USA defence contractor for data management etc, they got later bought by Microsoft and then came the "Microsoft Surface" coffee table. That was the thing that signaled that Microsoft has something special in their hands if they play their hand right.

And Surface was the thing... Almost... And it still is "almost" as it is just "correct".

Like look the Surface Pen... The pen in Surface 3 is great feeling! It has four buttons (tip, two side buttons, end button) and enough with 256 level pressure. It has nice separated bluetooth three function button at end (press, press+hold, double tap).
Now a artist is swiping hands together from joy, until you wake to reality... You can't program those buttons! Not what so ever!

Like what? That is the Microsoft idea of "graphical designer" device? Even Apple didn't add buttons to their Apple Pencil because they can't offer features!
Surface a terrible laptop because you don't have frictional hinge (needed for tight spaces like airplane table or auditory table that are small) that means you have 50% larger foot because the "support leg".  You can't use device on lap, it is just terrible!
A terrible tablet because you can't use Windows 10 without keyboard, a physical keyboard! The graphical user interface is so far from the usability research findings that it is not funny even! But the physical keyboard wins every time the virtual keyboard for writing.

The small things are what destroy the Windows experience. It is like the missing good network capabilities. Missing user management (thing that Windows Vista brought well, that Windows 7 "polished"). And it is exactly opposite to the Apple. Apple produce products that are pleasant to use as long you need to do it one way, the Apple way. But need more, and it just say "Sorry Dave, Can't do that!". Microsoft are not pleasant to use for small things, but if you need to special way, you need to see effort but you can do it!

I want Microsoft to succeed with Surface line. But they are just toys so far. Even Apple knows that they can't mix iPad and iMac as it would be terrible! But I want Apple to add a touch and PEN to iMac... Really do! I mean touch control like swipe, rotate, pan for the content. Otherwise use pen for drawing/edit and everything else with keyboard + mouse.

It is amazing that in 30+ years, Microsoft and Apple has managed to hold back the innovations and true creativity. Not to allow the real progress to happen quickly and efficiently.
Instead they are there for business, to sell "Wow!" instead tools.

Like compare this from 1982 to anything today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4vC80Pv6Q
That is what Steve Jobs got presented when he got VIP access to that system and He got that idea of Mouse and keyboard (the User Interface) and Graphical User Interface (GUI).
Mother of all demos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY
That is from 1962... Even today that is a "WOW".
Even more wow are the ideas of 3D vector drawing and complex modeling decades ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB3jQKGrJo0

I love Apple and Microsoft advertising's... They show so nicely the potential and ideas. But they just flip in many cases. IPad Pro with Apple Pencil is great, but you don't want to type on iPad without physical keyboard. But you don't want to carry one where ever you go!

Microsoft Surface Book is interesting idea, but it again just falls to the stypidity of missing ports and such.

How difficult it is to put a two USB port with enough space between them on both sides of device? A SD card slot and then do something for the easy charging (magnetic pulling cable) etc. Focus to make the GUI touch friendly and problems would start to vanish.
But you can't mix touch and mouse so well at all. You need two GUI that needs to swap on the fly. The GUI framework needs to support every widget scaled differently based what mode you use.

The Surface Studio is "dream", if it would just be a display with pen and puck. Let me build the computer to paired with it! So the Dell idea is nicer.

I love Surface Pro with Pen when I need to retouch the photos. Taking a 50 focus stack photo from a flower, using Affinity Photo to do great stacking and then retouch to remove small hairs etc and repair ghosting (blur of out of focus ghosts) by cloning etc. The Surface is so nice on table/bed/couch. But that is it.

Studio might work better, but same thing again with it. There are no tools to support what is needed to do. Like lets take a example what an artist can do with a few simple tools: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRtG5LJ6MZ0 You can't do that with Microsoft Surface with Photoshop or any... The touch screens are like designed for photographers with photo accurate images and tool.

I am considering to buy a new Surface Book, but it really needs better pen. Surface Studio I will leave to the stores as I take gladly a 12-13" display on my lap instead.
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Telecaster

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2017, 05:09:21 PM »

My suggestion is to ignore proselytizers and use whatever works best for you.

From a former developer/coder's perspective: I avoided Windows whenever I could. Ugh. The original Mac enivronment was nicer to work in. UNIX (various flavors) nicer still. The current Mac OS X (aka macOS) is basically UNIX under the hood, so I imagine I'd be fine with it if I were still working. When it comes to using apps in these environments: doesn't make much difference IMO. The apps themselves play a greater role.

-Dave-
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rlearner

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2017, 01:53:49 PM »

Upfront:  I'm a hard core Mac/Apple guy going back to the original 9" monochrome screen, 128k Mac I bought out of college.   I'm typing this on a new gen Mac Pro notebook, a dongle attached for my cards.  The dongle's a small pain, but minor vs. almost every time I have to brave Windows for the couple of audio and video programs I occasionally have to use that work only on that platform.    There, it's hit and miss whether, say, a microphone that worked last week will be recognized this week, or whether I'll get a warning that some driver is now missing -- would I like Windows to automatically find and download it?  It's almost comical how that function never works. 

It's good to see Microsoft come out w/some good-looking, even innovative hardware.   As others have pointed out though, it's the reliability and lack of bugginess that defines Mac vs. Windows for many -- this isn't something that shows up on the spec sheets.   Nor does such things as  smoother scrolling and more precise cursor movement.    Software is harder than hardware.   

I know a lot of video editors/motion graphic folks who are frustrated with Apple's seeming inattention to the pro market.   They are apparently going to address that.   I also know of a few editing houses that switched over to PC; it's about 50/50 on happiness vs. pain.
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