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Author Topic: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store  (Read 13987 times)

jimh

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2017, 02:18:23 PM »

The fact that Photoshop now requires a login seems more of an indictment of Adobe than a failure by Microsoft. 

Windows 10 never crashes on me.

Big technology companies compete by playing leapfrog.  And like the camera makers, Microsoft's hardware people are re-focusing on the high end. 

Disclosure: typing this post on a Surface. 
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Sharon VL

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2017, 02:52:54 PM »

Kind of ot but my mind image of a surface is Bill Belichick hurling it on the sideline.  ;D

schertz

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2017, 04:30:19 PM »

I've been in both the local Microsoft store (empty) and the local Apple stores (always full) numerous times . I personally have a love/hate relationship with the Apple Store.
<rant> It seems like there are three groups of people filling the place 1) people buying 2) people borrowing 3) people getting setup or AppleCare help. The borrowers are the constant group of people who there to use the computer for free all day to job hunt, watch YouTube, screw around on social media and play online video games. When the iMac 5k first came out I was eager to check one out at the store and see if it would be useful in my photographic workflow but I could never get near a machine due to goofballs with no intention of ever buying anything.
There used to be a desk at the back where you could bring purchases, but now you have to find a free associate in the crowd who can check you out, which I have found to cause large bottlenecks of people and delays.
Unlike the Microsoft store the major source of crowds in the Apple Store is people at the back getting setup education or warranty service. I think this contributes a lot to the amount of people in the store.
</rant>
Personally I don't think there is anything special about Mac hardware these days. Apple's obsession with thin and sleek has gotten to the point of form-over-function to their detriment. I use Mac's because of OSX, I need/prefer a Linux type environment for scientific programming work, but support for mainstream applications like Adobe and MS Office products as well and Mac's are the best solution for me...

Mike
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 08:53:32 PM by schertz »
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mecrox

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2017, 05:48:39 AM »

Yes, I have sinned. Having barely heard of a Microsoft Surface, I went into a store on the strength of this thread and scoped one out. Very impressive and seemed to be well made too. Much better than I was expecting. Overall, I liked it and would not anticipate any problem having one.

However, it is a bit hard to see where a Surface would fit in. A well or at least moderately loaded Surface 4 here (from the store's price list) doesn't run to much less than a lower-spec MacBook and by that stage a laptop form factor may be the better option anyway in which case there are some very good Win10 laptops around too. I guess I realised that there are limits to what one can do with smallish tablet-style gizmo, whatever it is, which puts a cap on the sticker price for me.  In which case, a tablet may still be a better albeit limited option or failing that a cheap 'n' cheerful Winbook used mostly for file storage and a bit of surfing etc. Still, the Surface struck me as a tasty piece of kit.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 06:35:00 AM by mecrox »
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JimGoshorn

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2017, 04:57:18 PM »

As someone who has always been a Mac person and owned them all the way back to the original 128k Mac, the thought of Windows just repulsed me for all the typical Apple reasons. After much thought, I passed on the 2013 Mac Pro because after reading forums, it just didn't seem improved enough to my trusty 2009 Mac Pro that I wanted one. So, I figured that I would wait for the next version which would probably be "perfect" for me (just like I thought all my previous updates were). Well, after over 3 years with no signs of anything changing and my Mac now nearing 8 years old, it was time to make a decision and update. It just didn't seem like the Mac Pro was a priority for Apple. Apple outwardly appears to be more interested in it's Services, Phones, Pads, MacBooks, Watches and the iMac so it has a desktop computer. Apple has talked about the future of computing being an iPad. They have shown a MacBook Pro connected to multiple displays and drives. Look on their site and most of the computer images are iMacs and MacBooks.

On a whim, I emailed a custom computer store (Puget Systems) that I saw mentioned here and explained my situation and the reservations of going to <gulp> Windows. The rep was very patient and understanding and answered all my questions. I honestly struggled with the thought of using Windows, partly out of fear of the unknown and partly because I spent so many years thinking Macs were better but through it all, I kept thinking about the direction I think Apple is heading towards.

So just before Christmas, UPS delivered my new computer: a Puget Systems PC running Windows 10. It's a learning curve to be sure but I feel more confident of where Microsoft/Windows is heading than I do where Apple is heading (?). Windows has it quirks like keywords (tags) not being displayed (or searchable) in Explorer if the file is a PSD. TIF's display and search fine. Small things since I have Lightroom so no deal breakers. Only time I turn my Mac on is if I need to use an app I haven't found a replacement for or a file I want to transfer over.

Just thought I'd share my story for anyone considering going to a PC. Hi, my name is Jim and I am a recovering Appleholic...
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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2017, 05:09:05 PM »

Long time Windows user here (ducks flying bricks).
I don't 'like' Windows. But every time I have to upgrade computers to run the next version of Photoshop, I price Windows desktops and then the Apple equivalent. And the Apple machine is just about exactly twice as expensive, every time, for similar specs. So I go back to Windows.

Yes, Apple's products are 'cool'. Yes, they're great at hitting the zeitgeist. But they're consistently over-priced for that cool factor. And now Apple is deliberately, intentionally abusing their own customers by removing critical features (SD slot, any connections other than USB-C) just because they can. They are making their own customers spend a bunch of extra money to buy unnecessary dongles that will be easily misplaced or lost, because they can.

I'm always reminded of a great quote from 20+ years ago in a consumer book on computers. "Don't be fooled by Apple. Beneath that warm, fuzzy exterior beats a heart of corporate greed colder than anything at IBM".
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Farmer

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2017, 09:19:59 PM »

A couple of comments:

1. You can turn off all data "slurping" as someone put it in Win 10 quite easily.  You don't need any third party apps.  It's all in settings.

2. I'm using a Surface Book now (i7, nVidia graphics), and it's great.  I have a 200GB micro SD card in the SD slot (sits flush with the adapter) for some extra storage, too (and, of course, I can swap it out).

Run the full suite of Adobe and MS Office apps, plus numerous other things.  Solid.  The versatility of being a tablet or a laptop, the horsepower and battery life (compared to Surface Pro) is a big power-up and really handy.  Being able to use mouse, touch, pen, Bluetooth wireless devices, etc. is great.  Swapping the UI between standard and tablet mode can be really helpful, too.

Oh, and someone mentioned something about Win 10 installing itself (what does that mean?  Updates, perhaps?) but also that apps installed themselves without permission or prompting.  Well, on the latter, that's utterly impossible unless your system has been compromised.

We probably need a "fake news" button for some of the nonsense that gets posted at times.  Fanboi (either side) fantasies about problems experienced by the other side, or problems created due to users not know what they're doing and then blaming the hardware, are not helpful to anyone.
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Phil Brown

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2017, 10:35:38 AM »

Good article, Kevin, and it reflects my UK experience.  We have an all in one Windows 10 PC on which I use Lightroom 6 standalone, and a Windows 10 laptop, which I use when on a photographic trip for file transfer and for an initial look with Lightroom.  We also have an ipad for using to show images to friends and for TV display using Apple TV and both Jane and I have iphones.  Getting files on to the ipad is easy; I just copy them to a folder which then syncs with the ipad when I plug the latter into the PC.

The retail experience is interesting. The Apple store in Covent Garden in London is great.  There is no pushing, yet assistants are readily available to talk knowledgably, do not treat me like an idiot and are very helpful.  When I had a perceived battery capacity problem, the first assistant to whom I spoke whipped out his ipad, linked it to my iphone and tested the battery wirelessly, all within a few minutes of entering the store.  The battery was Ok so he sent me upstairs to talk to a techie who resolved the problem quickly.  He did make a support appointment for a view of the inside of the phone a few days later, but said if the problem did not recur, just don't turn up, no need to cancel.  That wins me!  My local Windows store selling a variety of Windows based systems is totally different.  The knowledge base is way down on Apple.  I could look at Dell, but here that means doing it all on-line. I do not have the space for a dedicated monitor.

One thing I do like about Apple is the retina screen.  My laptop has a screen that is very viewing angle dependent and so I do not trust it.  I am not sure about the PC screen, and now rely on the Lightroom histogram, before exporting or printing A3 or A3+ on a Canon 9500 mk2.  I am unsure about screen calibration as the sensor sits on the screen, i.e. is calibrating at 90 degrees only.  I am drawn to migrating to Apple (probably a macbook pro, rather than a desktop) but am conscious of comments.  5 years is the minimum life I expect of a machine.  I am sure Apple in Covent Garden will help me through the process of migrating. 

Do I stay with Windows or do I jump? 

Jonathan

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kers

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2017, 12:09:42 PM »

Walk into the MS store and it is a imperfect green copy of the Apple store...


...
I hope the new Macbook Pro is a turning point for Apple.

I can't remember a product update that has received so much negative response.
For the first time a lot of people including me found the previous model better for good reasons.
Apple totally neglected the aspect of ease of use, being far more important than the 2% better screen, thinner casco, performance...
Phil Schiller said : watch me, over 5 years everybody uses USB-C...but... we live now...
The operating system OSX is becoming more and more a MacOS for Dummies. An iOSX
Disk-utility is stripped to the basics. Older Apple software is not available, so Apple forces you to use the latest system software.
... the latest system is usually a few months old and loaded with new bugs...
So Apple forces you to use an unstable system all the time.
The trashcan Macpro brought good support for Final cut pro X but for other use i would prefer the older Macpro's.
So there is a lot not to like about Apple at the moment.

That said from the first Windows version to that last i find the system ugly to look at.
That alone will hurt my eyes everyday i have to work with it.
Those tiles! the complete rubbish layout and design.
I very much prefer OSX with its uniform clear and elegant layout and design.
Than i think of finder, system preferences and other basic things.
Also i do not want to fill my head with yet another system and the 1000000 little things you have to know to make it work...
I consider that a waste of my brain and time.

So my solution at the moment is... stay with an old Apple system that is stable...
Stay with the old macpro... fast enough for everything but 4K video...( and even that with a proper GPU installed)
I realize this choice is only useful for some years. I hope that in the mean time Apple will change its direction for the better.


I do not like the Apple store - at all!
For me it the ultimate happy-consumer-centre; a place where costumers make selfies so proud they are to be there.
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Pieter Kers
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speedyk

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2017, 07:24:45 PM »

A couple of comments:

1. You can turn off all data "slurping" as someone put it in Win 10 quite easily.  You don't need any third party apps.  It's all in settings.

We probably need a "fake news" button for some of the nonsense that gets posted at times.  Fanboi (either side) fantasies about problems experienced by the other side, or problems created due to users not know what they're doing and then blaming the hardware, are not helpful to anyone.

Agreed, let me help you with your own blind spots...http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/23/microsoft_windows_10_upgrade/

Note the links in that article to other egregious examples (including automatically installing Win10 when the user clicked an X to try to close the window) and then read over 100 comments from IT pros who frequent that site about how screwed up MS is. There is a virtual stampede in the IT world toward Linux right now, if they aren't using Macs. And the people they support will have to follow. Thus empty stores. And note that they themselves acknowledge it, the article is about an apology they extended to their users.

Slurping:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/microsoft_backports_data_slurp_to_windows_78_via_patches/

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2979054/windows-security/windows-7-8-10-now-all-collecting-user-data-for-microsoft.html

Not hard to find more on the subject: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+data+slurping&ia=web

I do like that the Surface lets the user insert SD cards and use USB, Apple's walled-garden and reliance on iTunes is awful and a meltdown waiting to happen, one reason why an iPhone will never be myPhone, Apple wants to help too much. In truth there is not a great OS right now, user experience is terrible and trust is low because updates now have complete changes of interface and settings reversals hidden in them. So people are more wary of doing them.

Meanwhile Google is blackmailing competing vendors to upgrade or they will publish the exploits, not because they're trying to run competitors out of business or anything. Just because they care so much. They pulled referral funding from Mozilla/Firefox and then started upgrading Chrome at a furious rate, couldn't be to try to herd all users toward Chrome, right?

Again, all the big software companies suck. No fanboy here. Adobe's offerings are like buying a crack whore. There was a golden age when the slur wasn't built in to everything. Now they don't even care if our experience is degraded, it's all about collecting data and lying to us about how it's used.
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Farmer

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2017, 04:25:52 PM »

Yes, that was totally unacceptable by MS.  But it was 6 months ago.  No one recently could have had an automatic upgrade forced on them like that.

Regarding the stampede to Linux, that's the smallest stampede I've ever seen:

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Yes, it does send back some basic and anonymous data about crashes and so on.  Most people understand that the issue is about sending personal data or not disclosing what they're doing.

Yes, everyone is in it to make money.  The point is that the horror stories that are often bandied around are mostly fake or simply misunderstandings which get blown out of proportion (on all sides).  A bit like claiming everyone is stampeding to Linux, when at this rate it could happen for 5 years and still have almost no impact.
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Phil Brown

Jonathan Cross

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2017, 05:43:11 PM »

A nice story for a change.

Yesterday I picked up my Fuji X_T1 with the 56 prime to do a portrait of the speaker at an arts organisation.  Fortunately I gave it a quick test and yuk, ghastly pink cast. Nothing obvious to me so, disappointed, I went off with my Canon and zoom.  Tried again this morning and still the same.  Really unhappy I rang the Fuji repair centre in the UK, though the body is out of guarantee.  I nice helpful guy asked me to get the camera and switch it on. Yes, you have guessed, the auto white balance can be moved around and had gone right across to the red, don't ask me how.  Recentred, all was OK again.  Duh, I am an idiot, I thought!

And the point of this tale - really helpful, did not treat me like an idiot, did not even intimate that a repair was needed, and all sorted in less than 5 minutes.  Customer care like that makes friends.

Jonathan
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thx1138

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2017, 06:37:20 AM »

Interesting article and like you mentioned in the disclaimer, very much based on the way you experience Apple and Microsoft products. Which in the end it what matters. Like choosing between Canon or Nikon, or Ford and GM. What works for you is what matters.

I must be the only photographer on the planet that does NOT use Apple products. I use Lightoom and Photoshop and they work just fine on Windows 10. Without crashing at all. And the desktop I use, I made myself from industry standard components. Not some fancy expensive Dell or HP workstation. The 4K sceen comes from the same factory as the Apple Cinema displays, as does the Nvidia GPU and the Intel CPU. Under the hood, iMacs and PC's are basically the same.
The price is where the magic happens. Apple's design is top-notch, but you pay top dollar. If you like the way things are designed and look like, fine. I spend my time looking at the 4K screen, not the box under my desk. My money goes to the screen, no the box under my desk.

If I have any issues at all, 90% of the time it's related to the application, not the OS. I see the same at my daytime job. I work in IT, where I manage the infrastructure of a 1000 user company with 11 offices worldwide. The core of this network is Microsoft based and works like a charm. The problems are at the application (3rd party) level, and more importantly, the end user (which is a different story alltogether).

I truely believe we are at a level within the IT industry where the hardware, OS and Apps are generic. They all work equally good or bad, and at the same level of performance. If I were to switch to an Apple tomorrow (for both work and Photography) I would not have any issues. And that's not so much to my merit, but the way devices and apps work these days. I was very different 15 years ago.
In reverse it could also work, but for some reason some Apple users often have a imaginary wall in front off them which they refuse to climb over. I know it's an imaginary wall, because I know many Apple users that did make the jump and now understand that it makes no difference anymore which platform they use. Some of them stayed with Apple. Some didn't and some use it mixed. But what matters is what they use is not right or wrong. It's a feeling. Not an experience. Some feel better driving a Ford, some driving a VW. Both will get you from A to B at the same speed and comfort.

I think innovation no longer happens at the hardware/device level. Apple's touch-bar and Microsofts Surface Dial are perhaps some attempts at innovating, but it's not as huge as the impact the GUI, mouse or touchscreen had. Seems like the whole world is dying for Apple to come up with a revelation. I don't think it's going to happen. And it doesn't matter. We can now focus on apps and using the devices to create other miracles.

Connector trouble (like USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt and whatever comes next) will always be an issue on laptops, where the space is limited so you eventually need a dongle. It's the result of the relentless (pointless) drive in making the thinnest laptop on the planet. Like anyone whould notice the difference between a 4.56mm laptop and a 7.84mm. I think it was pretty much done when we were at 15mm.
What I don't understand is why putting a 2.5mm headphone jack or a USB port in a mobile device (iPhone and iPad) is such a crime. If the iPad would have been 2mm thicker and have a USB3 port, it would still be as great as it is now. We all know why it doesn't have a USB port. How could you explain the 16/32 and 64GB models otherwise ?

Personally, I think Laptops are pointless today. I use a tablet (Surface 3 Pro now but iPad could work just as well) when I want to be mobile. And a fast Desktop when I'm at a desk. The laptop sits somewhere in between, but what position is that ? Being mobile at a desk ? Printing at Starbucks ? Editing on a plane ? Two devices cover 98% of the situations. Three is just overkill. Why do you need a laptop when you have a tablet ?

Smartphones are a different story. They are seen as another form of mobile computing. I use it as a phone, as a messaging device, and as a browser. Thats it. No games. No music (got an iPod + Pono player in car). No 2487 apps I don't use.
Currently I'm on a Lumia 930 Windows Phone. But eventually I will drop it on a concrete floor and need a new one. I simply cannot work with Android (too messy and ADD like). So chances are it's going to be an iPhone because like the Lumia it can do phone/messaging/browsing and I don't have to spend time tweaking and playing with it, since I'd rather spent that time on something worthwhile.

Just my 2 cents.
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Digital Finger

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2017, 04:38:31 PM »

RIP Steve

Sorry to say it but things WOULD have been better if he  were still around (and in good health)

No one seemed to have got the message as loud and clear as he wanted them to: 'the customer experience comes first, everytime"

maybe Jony is just  getting old.....
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mdougherty

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2017, 10:22:47 PM »

I'm a WIN 7 person but will have to upgrade to WIN 10 by 2020 if I want support.  Ugh.  I do have a WIN 10 Surface 3 for travel and know exactly what you mean by crashing and freezing.  Din't the Patriot's coach throw his Surface 3 at a bench on national TV during a football game.  The are simply undependable.  You also get the pleasure of watching WIN 10 update itself for several hours every couple months. 
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dreed

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2017, 04:56:22 AM »

I've been in both the local Microsoft store (empty) and the local Apple stores (always full) numerous times.

Buying and owning Apple products is a fashion statement and a "wealth" statement. Their products are not as cheap as those bearing Microsoft so there's an aura of "eliteness" that comes with owning/using Apple.

Quote
Personally I don't think there is anything special about Mac hardware these days. Apple's obsession with thin and sleek has gotten to the point of form-over-function to their detriment. I use Mac's because of OSX, I need/prefer a Linux type environment for scientific programming work, but support for mainstream applications like Adobe and MS Office products as well and Mac's are the best solution for me...

You're right, there is nothing special about Mac hardware except for the "clothes" that it wears. And that's what Apple sells - fashionable computers and phones. But Apple is getting arrogant - removing the 3.5" headphone jack oh phones, removing lightning/thunderbolt/USB ports on laptops, etc.

I use a Mac at work and Windows at home. The way in which it is necessary to use a Mac mouse to achieve what you can with a Microsoft mouse is frustrating - I often find that I lose work because of "Gestures."
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dreed

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2017, 05:14:33 AM »

Quote
A short time later, it crashed.  How could I forget that I was dealing with Windows?  Eventually, I asked if I could try the stylus and puck out on Photoshop.

As others have mentioned, Windows crashes are now very rare. I know of many systems that run Windows flavours 24x7 to deliver real time video, etc, to people all over the world. I can't say the same for any Apple product (doesn't run in the cloud for starters.) In this case it would be the stylus/puck drivers that are not up to scratch, not Windows itself. Badly written drivers have the potential to crash any computer.

Quote
That turned out to be a disaster as well.  Photoshop wanted us to log in.  No problem, right?  Not one person in the store knew the log-in credentials for their Adobe account.

This is not the store attendant's fault, that is Adobe's fault. Or should I say, "Welcome to Creative Cloud." What Microsoft should be doing is including one of the newer photo editing apps on their display computers. Something from the new pool of photo editing applications such as ON1 or Afinity Photo that don't require "cloud".

Quote
Apple usually does the right thing, and within due time, the rest of the industry follows suit.

Whether or not Apple is doing the right thing is questionable. The problem is that Apple is seen as the trend setter so most everyone else follows what Apple does, regardless of whether it is good/right/the best. It is almost a case of "If Apple jumped off a bridge, every other vendor would too."
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simonphotos

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2017, 10:30:03 PM »

As a photographer I used Windows for years and was very anti Apple because of the price and locked OS. However with WIndows I suffered many crashes, sometimes even in the middle of presentations to customers. NOT a professional look!!!
In my opinion Windows was the best and most stable version of Windows followed closely by XP.
I hated Windows 8 and 8.1 especially the changes in the Start menu.
Windows 10 has been a complete disaster for me with crashes all the time, system restore not working, etc etc etc.
Christmas 2015 was the turning point for me when I spent SIX weeks trying to get 10 to be stable. On Xmas eve I almost threw the laptop out the window (no pun intended!!). That is when I realised that I was spending more time on maintance than work which isnt productive and not good for the blood pressure!!
At that point I decided to  get a Macbook Pro.
People comment that Apple products are expensive, but the top of the line Surface Pros are around the same price!!
Around the time I read the biography of Steve Jobs I purchased my first Apple product, an iPod. I have had Android phones and an Android tablet. I replaced my Ardroid tablewt with an iPad and it doesnt crash etc. So even though I had some trepidation about going to a Macbook Pro in reality it wasnt difficult.
It doesn't crash and wher there is an OS problem Apple admits it and fixes it unlike Microsoft who almost never admit it and take ages if ever to fix.
If you have a good experience with Windows lucky you. Personally my blood pressure is way down now I use a Mac.
Sure it isnt perfect, but then nothing ever is, but IMHO Aple is a better experience than Windows.
For the people that complain about the restricted OS, I dont tink it is as locked as people think, and being restricted is part of what makes it work!!
People have complained about Apple taking the initiative and changing things, but someone has to make the first move. People complained about Apple removing the Floppy disk and maybe it was a forward move, but nowadays no one would think of using a Floppy disk unless they were trying to read old old disks!! Same with the DVD drive. I purchased a super drive which is always beside my computer, but honestly I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I have used it in a year!!
The current furore over chaging the ports to USBc will die soon as more and more companies go the same way. But someone had to make the first move!!!  Sure it is inconvienent at present, but USBc cables for external drives will soon negate the need for an adapter.
People say Apple products are expensive but that is true of all producgts. You have cheap products (Acer, HP etc) then you hvae middle products and you have expensive ones. WHich you buy is your choice but if Apple products were over priced as people say and didn't work then no-one would buy them. Just like expensive cars that dont work. Since Apple is one of the best performing companies on the planet they must be ding something right!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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TonyW

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2017, 02:35:55 PM »

Well a die hard PC man here, but I do have an iMac sitting on the desktop even if it rarely sees use. 

Depending on your POV the dark side will suck you in one day and you will end up with both systems.

It is always interesting to read the tales of woe with Windows.  I think that most Windows users expect on occasion to roll up their sleeves and get down and dirty with the OS whereas Apple users expect no issues and IME curl up in revulsion if something dares to go wrong.  Please believe that this is not a swipe at the Mac - they are both excellent tools, but that's all they are.

Often overlooked and what needs to be considered when talking about crashes / failures etc Is the market share of desktop PC (including App,e Mac which is a PC).  Last count I heard was only 10% held by Apple, therefore it seems quite reasonable to expect a huge list of user complaints against the highest share  - regardless how lame ;D

I have used MS products since day one including DOS (when Bill Gates reportedly bought the company that produced DOS prior to selling the idea to corporates  :)).  With early versions of Windows I have had my share of BSOD's and other crashes, but since even Windows XP next to nothing and from Windows 7 nothing at all.  Windows 10 being IME absolutely fine and probably their best OS to date.  Skipped  8.0 and Vista - well MS can get it wrong too.

Up to fairly recently MS not in the equipment supply business which seems to be Apples model with free OS.  Hence IMO one explanation for what may at first sight appear to be a flaky system I.e. Prior to XP?

One thing that Apple has always done well is design, making pretty products to sit on the desktop.  PC's being a long way behind in nice looking units.  Still it looks like there are some positive moves to "sexy looking" PC's.  Just reading this I think I may be a sad individual  ;D

Still going back to what I originally stated whatever you currently use you will be assimilated resistance is futile
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algrove

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Re: True Confessions: I Walked Into a Microsoft Store
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2017, 10:06:39 AM »

I have a maxed out MBP from 2015. I also have a 2010 Mac Pro (MP) and have waiting for what seems like ions for Apple to release a new Mac Pro black garbage can, but so far nothing as we all know. In 2013 I was not ready to upgrade as I have maxed out RAM and use a SSD for boot etc. My 2 monitor setup is painful at times with C1, but I seem to muddle through.

My old MP is so slow today that I find it takes a little more than twice the time for it to format a 64GB SD card versus using my MBP. To me that is sad.

Sure I could upgrade now and sure enough right after I do that a new Mac Pro will come out so I am suffering with slow image backups and the like, but I still like my MP mainly due to its OS.

Come on Apple get with it and release a new one soon!
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