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Author Topic: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?  (Read 54006 times)

Rob C

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Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« on: January 18, 2017, 06:40:22 am »

http://elpais.com/elpais/2017/01/18/album/1484723253_119819.html#1484723253_119819_1484723404

You couldn't make it up. And they stopped allowing Brit expats their winter heating-allowance...

I live at sea-level and the hill behind Pollensa is freakin' white! It gets like that every year. Winter electricity bills are almost double summer ones, and those are high enough to squeeze the pips whether or not one is seated. In truth, a state pension pays for about 50% of a careful lifestyle. God alone knows what those who didn't have a reasonable earning potential in their working years do. Sell crack, maybe.

;-(

Rob
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:20:10 am by Rob C »
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Telecaster

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Re: Who needs the Norther or Southern Poles?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 04:27:28 pm »

Snowfall in Saudi Arabia and Arctic sea ice at lowest-ever-recorded levels.

"A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse!"

 ;)

-Dave-
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LesPalenik

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Re: Who needs the Norther or Southern Poles?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 07:50:04 pm »

Who would want to live in such a cold place?
This week, there is no snow in Toronto and the day temperatures are in the plus range.
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Rob C

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2017, 04:15:54 am »

As I see it, the true potential of global warming will lie in reduced heating bills. As a side-benefit, my terrace (already unique within the area) will become a much-prized mooring, possibly housing the new yacht club HQ, turning the little development into the next Port Grimaud. You see? All things come to 'im wot waits!

By then, the soaring pound will have made me a millionaire again (oh the heady days of the lira and peseta, when I earned millions a year!) and all I will have to worry about will be the paint job on my next Riva.

Who needs weed? A little heat is all it takes.

Rob
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:20:36 am by Rob C »
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2017, 05:04:39 am »

Cold wave in January, who would have thought:)

N80

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2017, 03:39:54 pm »

We're breaking records here down south. It was 78 here yesterday. Previous record was 74. It has been this way for weeks. Daily highs near records, daily lows at the normal high. Saving a lot on the heat bill. Of course, three weeks ago we got down in the single digits and came close to a record low.

It may be that what we will experience in the near future is extreme variability.

I personally like cool winters. Where I live we are blessed with glorious springs, beautiful crisp falls, and relatively mild winters. Summers are hot and humid. The old folks would describe that feeling as "close".

What will global warming mean to use here? Probably nothing. Slightly warmer winters will be a benefit all the way around. Better for business (tourism is our number one source of revenue, agriculture is second) and better for the economy. Warmer summers won't change anything.  We routinely deal with upper 90's and low 100's.

It is hard to resist the impulse to project what we are experiencing now and/or what we have experienced in our short lives onto what we know or expect in regard to global warming. I remember winters as a teen in which ponds stayed frozen over for weeks. I haven't seen that in decades. I also remember summers, 30 years ago, where it stayed over 100 for 2 weeks. Haven't seen that since. In truth, none of this is relevant to global climate change. The statistical 'n' of 50 years of experience or data is meaningless.
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DeanChriss

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2017, 04:48:02 pm »

Polar bears, which are already drowning and starving in record numbers...
"As climate change melts sea ice, the U.S. Geological Survey projects that two thirds of polar bears will disappear by 2050."
http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to-Wildlife/Global-Warming/Effects-on-Wildlife-and-Habitat/Polar-Bears.aspx
http://climate.nasa.gov/news/2499/polar-bears-across-the-arctic-face-shorter-sea-ice-season/

And some people we don't seem to care much about...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/

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Rob C

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 04:46:24 am »

The simple truth is that we are too many. Perhaps a nuclear accident will render millions sterile and, that way, save us from ourselves in the longer run.

China has/had ? a policy on family size but got crucified for recognizing the problem and trying to do something about it. Our "anything goes" mindsets are too liberal for our own good; freedom has become its own curse.

Nope, don't look to me for workable answers.

Rob

GrahamBy

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 05:59:00 am »

Interesting fact: Chinese family sizes were already plummeting before the 1-child policy was introduced, due to improved education of women and availability of contraception.

The UN population projections show that China and Europe have stopped, or will very soon stop growing. Southern Asia will soon plateau. Pretty much all the growth projected over the next 80 years is expected to occur in Africa, in particular the bits with the lowest standards of education and dysfunctional states. The rise of IS and other religious insanities will of course accelerate growth, since they remove all freedom of choice from women.

I can only say I'm very glad I'll be long gone before the projected 12 billion happens: given the current 7,5 billion already consumes everything the planet can produce annually in 7-8 months, I can't imagine us actually getting there.

http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/news/population/2015-report.html
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 06:14:35 am by GrahamBy »
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DeanChriss

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 06:43:53 am »

Rob,
FWIW I think you are right and I doubt there are any viable answers. Compared to 50 years ago there are nearly 4 billion more people in the world (up 115%). That's the driving force behind nearly every other problem. We put 2.4 million pounds of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere every second of every day, along with lots of other stuff.

It's interesting that since 1970 (nearly the same period) the global wildlife population declined by 58% percent. I don't think it's coincidence and there is no reason to think the trends will stop.
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DeanChriss

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 06:49:39 am »

...
I can only say I'm very glad I'll be long gone before the projected 12 billion happens: given the current 7,5 billion already consumes everything the planet can produce annually in 7-8 months, I can't imagine us actually getting there.
...

I've been having similar thoughts for quite a while. Frankly, the only thing that amazes me about any of this is that we got here so fast. I never thought I would live long enough to see the drastic changes we've already seen, and as Monty Python might say, I'm not dead yet.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 04:23:55 pm »

As I see it, the true potential of global warming will lie in reduced heating bills.

But higher costs for air conditioning in the much hotter months.  It's more expensive to cool a home than it is to heat it (I know this by comparing my utility bill difference between winter and summer).

Alan
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:27:14 pm by Alan Goldhammer »
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Rob C

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2017, 07:26:18 am »

But higher costs for air conditioning in the much hotter months.  It's more expensive to cool a home than it is to heat it (I know this by comparing my utility bill difference between winter and summer).

Alan

I have air con. I installed it in the early 80s in hope of cont¡nuing to do darkroom work in Spain. That became untenable for other reasons than temperature, and I never use the unit anymore. I detest air con. for it makes the outside reality worse and stops one being able to adjust to it quickly. The same holds even more true in the car: I have 'climate' but much prefer an open window.

Some modern air con. units also double as heaters; they do run ultra expensively; is your unit one of the dual-purpose types?

The problem with electricity in Spain is that it has, historically, always been high-cost: you see this in the way that many shops, still, today, will keep the lights off until a customer walks in. Many people don't know this habit and assume shops are closed when they are not. I think something similar happens in rural France: my wife and I drove through France, mainly north/south and the reverse, many times, and it was always hard to spot a café or wherever that was obviously open for business. Everywhere looked both closed and deserted; secret France, indeed!

My electricity bill comes with a graph showing the usage per month. It is hugely higher in the winter months.

Rob


jeremyrh

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2017, 11:53:11 am »

What will global warming mean to use here? Probably nothing.

Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2017, 01:31:18 pm »

I have air con. I installed it in the early 80s in hope of cont¡nuing to do darkroom work in Spain. That became untenable for other reasons than temperature, and I never use the unit anymore. I detest air con. for it makes the outside reality worse and stops one being able to adjust to it quickly. The same holds even more true in the car: I have 'climate' but much prefer an open window.

I don't like AC either but here in the Washington DC area the weather is so awful from mid June through August.  Humidity is very high and unless you run AC you will get mold in your home.  We keep the thermostat up high and use it just to get the moisture out of the house.
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Rob C

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 04:19:48 pm »

I don't like AC either but here in the Washington DC area the weather is so awful from mid June through August.  Humidity is very high and unless you run AC you will get mold in your home.  We keep the thermostat up high and use it just to get the moisture out of the house.


All you need's a dehumidifier! I'm assured they extract gallons from the air. Don't know how expensive they are to run, though.

The summers are okay here because one can keep the glass windows open and the shutters closed, so there's constant air circulation as, being an island, there's ever movement. Also, a mountain ridge runs the length of the northern coast (about a mile away) and that brings its own circulation - and interesting cloud patterns along its length. But winter is evil: dark patches appear in the kitchen along the ceiling by the window, simply because the natural air flow has to be kept out, and I do make quite a lot of pasta... The poor extractor fan hasn't a chance against the steam which makes the wall tiles run with condensation.

I hate winters.

luxborealis

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 04:55:16 pm »


All you need's a dehumidifier! I'm assured they extract gallons from the air. Don't know how expensive they are to run, though.


Dehumidifiers do work but not for prolonged spells of H+H! We use the dehumidifier all summer, but it has trouble keeping up when it's over 30°C (86°F) for more than a few days in a row with high humidity.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2017, 12:06:48 am »

Polar bears, which are already drowning and starving in record numbers...
"As climate change melts sea ice, the U.S. Geological Survey projects that two thirds of polar bears will disappear by 2050."
http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to-Wildlife/Global-Warming/Effects-on-Wildlife-and-Habitat/Polar-Bears.aspx
http://climate.nasa.gov/news/2499/polar-bears-across-the-arctic-face-shorter-sea-ice-season/

And some people we don't seem to care much about...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/


Warming frigid land areas will mean more livable area for brown bears and grizzlies, birds, trees and all sorts of plants and animals as they expand their populations and ranges.    Unfortunately, politics only presents the negatives.  More balanced research is required to show just what real effect these climate changes will do.  It's not only about polar bears.  As an aside, we don't know if polar bears will drift back to land to hunt prey changing their food mainly from seal to other animals that inhabit land areas.  I suspect that is happening already if not yet discovered.

jeremyrh

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2017, 04:43:17 am »

  More balanced research is required to show just what real effect these climate changes will do. 

I despair for the human race if people like you are allowed to be in positions of authority. Oh ... 20th January .... :-(
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Rob C

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Re: Who needs the Northern or Southern Poles?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2017, 06:19:34 am »

Warming frigid land areas will mean more livable area for brown bears and grizzlies, birds, trees and all sorts of plants and animals as they expand their populations and ranges.    Unfortunately, politics only presents the negatives.  More balanced research is required to show just what real effect these climate changes will do.  It's not only about polar bears.  As an aside, we don't know if polar bears will drift back to land to hunt prey changing their food mainly from seal to other animals that inhabit land areas.  I suspect that is happening already if not yet discovered.

And the rest of the animal kingdom, living in huts, villas or penthouses (it's totally indiscriminate, hitting rich and poor alike) beside the sea will either drown or sail away in their megayachts, raising another glass of champers to the sun and tide bringing down the curtain on their homes and holiday pads. St Moritz next time; the flowers are beautiful in spring...

I'm told Florida will vanish. As it probably will anyhow, if that cliff falls off in the Canary islands first.

The only polar bear I ever saw was in a zoo, poor bugger; and the only brown one was in a zoo, too. We certainly have served them all so well, haven't we! But hey, the circus is leaving town for good, so that will balance things out.

Rob
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