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Author Topic: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?  (Read 3746 times)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2017, 12:20:08 PM »

Mark, is there any information about the chemical structures of the dyes and pigments used in the various inksets?  From this it may be possible to design more rapid techniques to estimate (and evaluate) longevity and various degradation processes.  I couldn't really find much in the chemical literature, but I suspect manufacturers treat this as proprietary information.
not Mark but I will comment.  Most of the drugs are kept trade secret.  I have looked at all the Epson material safety data sheets and there is no disclosure.  Nor is there any disclosure in the, patent literature.  One could do an analysis of the ink using modern instruments and identify the particular compounds but that is only half the story.  The encapsulation methods and the polymer make up are critical.  In addition, the paper can have, a big impact.
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MHMG

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2017, 02:30:36 PM »

...  The encapsulation methods and the polymer make up are critical.  In addition, the paper can have, a big impact.

A resounding +1 on both counts. In fact as the Aardenburg testing of the latest Epson HD inks has progressed to over 120 megalux hours total exposure dose the fading rate is now accelerating and reaching a rate of decline (using the i* metric to track visual appearance loss) very similar to the older K3 formulation. This non linear behavior strongly suggests that the newer HD set benefits from improved encapsulation methods and possible anti-oxidant chemistry rather than a truly different yellow pigment, i.e. a protective barrier if you will that extends the exposure "grace period" before noticeable yellow loss starts to occur.  Once these protective properties start to break down, the pigment particles are then able to resume their more normal fade rates!

As for media sensitivity, the testing on the Canon Lucia Pro-11 ink set just crossed the 40 Megalux hour mark in test, not far enough along to reach the Aardenburg Conservation display rating limits yet, but far enough along to suggest that sensitivity of the red ink in particular to paper coating chemistry is going to be an issue to evaluate in greater detail, i.e., a greater number and variety of media beg to be tested :)). The new LUCIA-Pro 11 red ink appears to be more vivid but less stable than the LUCIA EX red ink used in the older iPF8300 and iPF8400 models.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 03:17:26 PM by MHMG »
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Panagiotis

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2017, 01:17:14 AM »

Scott has again updated his review with very specific information about bronzing and how to avoid it using the correct media type.  See July, 2017 update at the end of his review:

http://www.on-sight.com/canon-ipf-pro-4000-review/

Thanks for the info. Pro Platinum and Pro Luster are the way to go. Now the question. I want to make for the pro-1000 a new custom media. Which base media to choose for Pro Platinum or Pro Luster in MCT? There are four options:
  • Lightweight Photo Paper A
  • Heavyweight Photo Paper A
  • Lightweight Photo Paper
  • Heavyweight Photo Paper

Thanks!
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dhachey

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2017, 11:25:03 PM »

not Mark but I will comment.  Most of the drugs are kept trade secret.  I have looked at all the Epson material safety data sheets and there is no disclosure.  Nor is there any disclosure in the, patent literature.  One could do an analysis of the ink using modern instruments and identify the particular compounds but that is only half the story.  The encapsulation methods and the polymer make up are critical.  In addition, the paper can have, a big impact.

Thanks Alan, that's about as far as I've gotten too.  I consult from time to time for a museum near me on this matter, but they haven't pursued it for lack of funding.  I'm retired now, but at one time I had access to the necessary equipment to do the job, but lacked the time.  Now I have the time, but not the equipment.  My interest is purely academic.
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henrikolsen

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2017, 02:24:05 PM »

Thanks for the info. Pro Platinum and Pro Luster are the way to go. Now the question. I want to make for the pro-1000 a new custom media. Which base media to choose for Pro Platinum or Pro Luster in MCT? There are four options:
  • Lightweight Photo Paper A
  • Heavyweight Photo Paper A
  • Lightweight Photo Paper
  • Heavyweight Photo Paper

Thanks!

I've been trying to get an answer on that one before, but no luck. For specific Canon papers, I've gotten an explanation for the A-variants, which made sense. But for custom media types in MCT I haven't been able to pull anything out of Canon - unfortunately, and despite some efforts. Please yourself ask them also, to increase pressure on them to bring forward an explanation, and share any findings. Thanks.

See http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=116269.msg973241#msg973241.
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Panagiotis

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2017, 02:33:41 PM »

I've been trying to get an answer on that one before, but no luck. For specific Canon papers, I've gotten an explanation for the A-variants, which made sense. But for custom media types in MCT I haven't been able to pull anything out of Canon - unfortunately, and despite some efforts. Please yourself ask them also, to increase pressure on them to bring forward an explanation, and share any findings. Thanks.

See http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=116269.msg973241#msg973241.
Thanks for that. I will try to contact them.
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henrikolsen

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2017, 03:21:31 PM »

Thanks for that. I will try to contact them.

Did you get any info from Canon?

See http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=116269.msg996953#msg996953 for latest info.
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Panagiotis

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Re: Canon iPF Pro-4000: The Bloom is Off the Rose?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2017, 03:51:59 PM »

Did you get any info from Canon?

See http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=116269.msg996953#msg996953 for latest info.

Hi! I called Canon Greece. The first guy told me that it was too technical and he passed me to another guy who send me his email to ask anything I wanted. I asked him and I didn't get any response. Then I went to Canon Europe website support page. I filled a form there pretending I am from Germany (to avoid passing me to the Greek guys). I asked the same questions and they send me as an answer pages 349-350 from the manual!
Then I decided by myself to pick Lightweight Paper A :). I choose that instead of Heavyweight variant in order to be able to use the rear feed which accepts smaller paper sizes because I have many paper left overs.

Thanks for the latest info!
If I find anything else I will report it here.
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