MBP 2012 Retina 8gb RAM..... replacement?

[sc_john]

I hope this doesn't result in Mac vs PC bashing, that is not my intention. But, here goes...

I have a MBP mid-2012 Retina, 2.6 GHz Quad Core I7 Broadwell/Haswell(?), 8GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, NVIDIA GT 650M 1024 MB, Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB. I am now working with much larger raw files than when I acquired this MBP, multiple layers, filters, etc. Phase One recommends: CPU with 4+ cores, 16+ GB of RAM, Solid State Disk (SSD), a fast Graphics card from NVIDIA or AMD with 2GB+ RAM (4+ GB for 4k or multiple monitors).

I intend to run laptop with 4K or 5K monitor, editing of still images only, no video. Also, no gaming. I have looked at 2016 MBP with Touch Bar, and I do not think the price/performance makes sense for me, at this time. So, that leaves me with a couple of alternatives:

1. max'd out 2015 MBP Retina w/2.8 GHz Quad Core I7 (Haswell/Crystalwell?), 16 GB RAM, 1 TB flash storage, AMD Radeon R9 M370X 2GB and Intel Iris Pro 5200, or
2. transition to PC such as Dell XPS 15, Quad Core I7, 2.6 GHz Sky Lake or Kaby Lake, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB PCiE , NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 with 4GB GDDR5, etc

The 2015 max'd MBP is approx 15-20% more $$$ than Dell. Staying in Mac OS offsets that difference, but not at the expense of real world performance. I am not a techie on computer specs, so my question is "Are these two laptops comparable in terms of performance for photo editing?" I realize the Dell is newer, but in reality is there a significant difference in the performance I should expect. By "significant", I mean 20% or 25%+.

Again, I do not see this as a Mac vs PC issue. I see it as a price/performance/convenience.

TIA.

John

[Hans Kruse]

John,

If you want 5K the MBP 2015 needs two display port cables and that was one reason I didn't go for that when I got my 2015 MBP. I have since upgraded to the 2016. One reason was that I was the fan on teh 2015 was running or lot when editing with Lightroom and I hoped that the 2016 would run better with the chips that should run less hot and also a redesigned fan system. This is indeed the case. The 2016 model also supports 5K in a single cable with the LG 5K display which I will receive tomorrow. The MBP 2016 supports even two 5K screens if need be The laptop screen on the MBP 2016 is visibly better than the 2015 and if it counts the sound system is also quite a bit better. I like the new tb3/usb-c ports that simplifies things although perhaps a short term disadvantage. I paid exactly the same for the MBP 2016 as I did for a similar spec'ed MBP 2015 when I got that. I chose the biggest GPU and not the fastest CPU. After having used the 2016 MBP now for about a month I would not go back to the 2015 MBP.

I have not touched PC's since 2009 when I switched to Mac. At that time Lightroom ran quite a bit better and faster and more reliable on the Mac. I do not know if this is the case today. It was a bit of a pain to switch from Windows to Mac, not so much Lightroom and Photoshop but all the rest. I would not recommend a mixed platform. I do not expect there would be a performance advantage justifying a platform switch.

[sc_john]

Thank you for your informative reply! I really appreciate it.

[NancyP]

I can't comment on Mac vs PC at this time, as I am in the Mac-verse for photo editing purposes. I may have a comment in a week or so about the 2015 MBP 15" 2.8 4-processor 16 G RAM 1Tb SSD with AMD graphics card, as I am just setting one up to replace a cranky 2010 pre-Retina MBP with 8 G RAM. What is the size of your files at the moment? It may be hard for me to be entirely objective, because I am updating operating system (10.6.8 to 10.11), version LR (4 to 6) and Autopano Giga (3 to 4), etc at the same time. External monitor is an older NEC 27" UHD calibrated with Spectraview. I really hadn't thought about 4K or 5K, I have not seen either of these, and gear lust starts with gear sightings....The MBP 2016 and the iPhone 7 do have better screens than the MBP 2015 and the iPhone 6SE. The difference is subtle compared to the difference between Retina and non-Retina.

[sc_john]

NancyP,

Thanks for your comments. In response,

"What is the size of your files at the moment?"      My raw files are about 105mb, processed in 16bit these translate to about 620mb, and after processing in PS with layers of adjustments, luminosity masks, filters, etc, they can grow to 2-3gb.

"The MBP 2016 and the iPhone 7 do have better screens than the MBP 2015..."     I have been using 2012 MBP Retina for over 4 years, and that screen hasn't disappointed me. So, as long as 2015 screen is at least that good, I'm OK. Critical work would happen on external monitor, anyway.

John

[Hans Kruse]

NancyP,

Thanks for your comments. In response,

"What is the size of your files at the moment?"      My raw files are about 105mb, processed in 16bit these translate to about 620mb, and after processing in PS with layers of adjustments, luminosity masks, filters, etc, they can grow to 2-3gb.

"The MBP 2016 and the iPhone 7 do have better screens than the MBP 2015..."     I have been using 2012 MBP Retina for over 4 years, and that screen hasn't disappointed me. So, as long as 2015 screen is at least that good, I'm OK. Critical work would happen on external monitor, anyway.

John

I got the new LG 5K screen today and after calibrating it the colours, details and look is very similar to the screen on the MBP 2016. You can connect this screen also to the 2015 MBP using a TB3 to TB2 adapter. But I stand with my recommendation of the MBP 2016 over the 2015 for the reasons I have written about. Nancy is caught up about Lloyd Chambers not recommending the MBP 2016 because of a performance test he did where it was slightly slower. I think he has given wrong overall advice.

[scyth]

2. transition to PC such as Dell XPS 15, Quad Core I7, 2.6 GHz Sky Lake or Kaby Lake, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB PCiE , NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 with 4GB GDDR5, etc

why ? you can buy a PC desktop replacement class notebook on Clevo shassi with 64GB ram and GTX1080 (or even 2x of them inside - C1 will support all GPUs it finds) ... unless you intend to show off a shiny metal shell in StarBucks

[sc_john]

why ? you can buy a PC desktop replacement class notebook on Clevo shassi with 64GB ram and GTX1080 (or even 2x of them inside - C1 will support all GPUs it finds) ... unless you intend to show off a shiny metal shell in StarBucks

Regarding Clevo chassis, I looked at XOTIC website. With the exception of 1 unit that weighed in at 3.97 lbs, (with dual core Kaby Lake, Intel® HD 520 Graphics (1.7GB), the more powerful units are all 5.5-10.58 lbs and showing only 2+ hours of battery life. Sounds like I would need to stake out a seat at Starbucks that is close to an electric outlet . I travel a lot, and weight makes a big difference, particularly given all the camera gear that I haul around. I will initiate a chat with XOTIC, through, to see if there are any options that would make sense for me. Thanks for your input.

John

[scyth]

I travel a lot

different story then... clevo has all their chassis' listed @ http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_pro.asp?lang=en  ... so unless you consider the likes of Dell you can select the chassis and then find a reseller (under Clevo or Sager name)

but then if you aim for the minimum weight/size the options from Dell/HP/Lenovo are decent indeed, even if you pay more for less...

[Stokkland]

why ? you can buy a PC desktop replacement class notebook on Clevo shassi with 64GB ram and GTX1080 (or even 2x of them inside - C1 will support all GPUs it finds) ... unless you intend to show off a shiny metal shell in StarBucks

I had a high-end Clevo, and could not see myself traveling with one. Not only was it heavy, but the battery only lasted a short while, making any location work impossible. Also, the video card I requested, HD7970M, would overheat and blue screen the laptop, with the Australian clevo reseller saying that it was my choice of video card, therefore not their problem (I would later find out about Australian consumer laws). Mileage may vary, but that was my experience and would by wary of buying again.

Model: I 7-3740QM 32GB 750HDD+250GB SSD 15.6" AMD Radeon HD 7970M laptop

[scyth]

I had a high-end Clevo, and could not see myself traveling with one. Not only was it heavy, but the battery only lasted a short while, making any location work impossible.

indeed - it is PC Desktop replacement... I use the one Clevo between home and work - but I have power in both places...

Also, the video card I requested, HD7970M, would overheat and blue screen the laptop, with the Australian clevo reseller saying that it was my choice of video card, therefore not their problem (I would later find out about Australian consumer laws). Mileage may vary, but that was my experience and would by wary of buying again.

I always use NVidia's cards... in USA I don't think any reseller will offer to put AMD dGPU inside Clevo chassis and also I paid for some premium thermopaste and I use custom firmware from Prema (highly recommended) in addition = https://biosmods.wordpress.com/

[NancyP]

sc_john, it sounds like you need all the RAM you can get. There's a rumor that a 32 G RAM MBP is planned for late 2017 - I don't know how good the rumor is. http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/01/16/apple-to-offer-32gb-of-desktop-ram-in-top-end-2017-macbook-pro-16gb-for-12-macbook

Hans - Maybe I got wrong advice from Lloyd Chambers re: the ULTIMATE laptop for Mac users.

However, the price difference between the refurbished 2015 maxed out MBP and the new 2016 equivalent is about $2,000.00, and that equals a new 24 mm TS-E II plus another backup drive.  And I must say, going from a non-Retina 2010 MBP with ailing screen and increasing tendency to have kernel panics in multiple programs*, to the 2015 Retina MBP - I am in heaven!    "It's all relative...."

I would agree that upgrading a 2012 MBP would call for a bigger jump in specs than could be had with the 2015 MBP.

+ Yes, I know that I could have wiped the 2010 drive and made a completely fresh install to (maybe) eliminate the kernel panic issue, but I still would have had an annoying non-responsive light line of pixels down the left side of the screen, even if the line just encroached on the Lr left panel.

[sc_john]

sc_john, it sounds like you need all the RAM you can get. There's a rumor that a 32 G RAM MBP is planned for late 2017 - I don't know how good the rumor is. http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/01/16/apple-to-offer-32gb-of-desktop-ram-in-top-end-2017-macbook-pro-16gb-for-12-macbook

Hans - Maybe I got wrong advice from Lloyd Chambers re: the ULTIMATE laptop for Mac users.

However, the price difference between the refurbished 2015 maxed out MBP and the new 2016 equivalent is about $2,000.00, and that equals a new 24 mm TS-E II plus another backup drive.  And I must say, going from a non-Retina 2010 MBP with ailing screen and increasing tendency to have kernel panics in multiple programs*, to the 2015 Retina MBP - I am in heaven!    "It's all relative...."

I would agree that upgrading a 2012 MBP would call for a bigger jump in specs than could be had with the 2015 MBP...

NancyP,

Thanks for your comments. I had seen the rumor on 32 GB MBP in late 2017, but I need the laptop now. And, as expensive as current 16GB unit is, I think the 32GB unit will be more outrageous. I am still considering the Dell XPS 15 9560 which has up to 32GB RAM. Decisions, decisions, ...

Re 2015 MBP, I looked for one with max'd out specs and could not find one. It would have saved about $600 vs new 2016 model.

John

[NancyP]

16 G RAM (versus 8 G) is a big step up.

Speed also depends in theory on allocation of tasks to # processors and to any split between main processor use and GPU use - I would think that would be very much dependent on the particular version of particular software you use. 32 G RAM may or may not give you additional speed for still image processing. You might consult power users of your particular software to see if you would benefit (and how much benefit) from RAM > 16 G, in which case you would have to decide if it is worth leaving the Mac-verse for PC.

[Hans Kruse]

Regarding the 16GB on current MBP's it is useful to remember that the MacOS has automatic memory compression that effectively extends the amount of RAM to about 24GB. It depends on the application and how it is used etc. but there seem to be general agreement that this is the extra amount it compares to if there was no memory compression.

More RAM does not hurt unless it impacts battery life as Apple has communicated about, but more RAM does not help if it is not needed or used. I use Lightroom for my photo editing with an occasional round trip into Photoshop. Besides this I usually have Mail and Safari open with maybe 15 Tabs open and possibly a few other apps. In addition many apps runs in the background like the Adobe desktop app, Backblaze online backup client, Dropbox. I have not experienced at any time any memory pressure. So unless you use memory hungry applications other than what I run I don't see that you would benefit from more memory than 16GB at the moment. Clearly there will be 32GB coming in the future, but I don't see it as a big issue when buying a MacBook Pro at the moment.