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Author Topic: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome  (Read 6939 times)

eronald

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2017, 01:36:19 am »

No Fudgy Chrome for you, eh, Rob?

Edmund

I can see a 500 Series make sense...

(Of course, that would make my gear-oriented self-flagellation fears real once more; maybe not exactly what I needed right now.)

;-)

Rob
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Ray

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2017, 05:27:03 am »

My experience with Ektachrome is that it fades more quickly than Kodachrome, a fact that was very significant for me because I was using both films many years before scanners became available. I now regret having used Ektachrome.

Now that scanners are available, durability of film image quality for new rolls is probably not an issue if the new film is always scanned. However, the really interesting issue is why some people seem to place so much importance on the emotion of nostalgia for technological products.

Nostalgia for a previous lifestyle in a previous era is understandable, as is nostalgia for a lost friend or family member. But nostalgia for an old, obsolete and inefficient piece of technology seems a bit strange to me. Could the Ford motor company make a profit by reintroducing the Model-T with it's inefficient fuel consumption, slow speed, poor handling and uncomfortable ride?  ;)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 05:33:08 am by Ray »
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Rob C

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2017, 05:39:03 am »

No Fudgy Chrome for you, eh, Rob?

Edmund


Two minds: I was told to use it when I was still doing stock 'atmospherics' because it gave the violence that attracted holiday brochure people; I was also told to switch to 6x7 and, when I did, I discovered that it made no difference at all, and that the whole business was being rapidly undermined by digital which made film users uncompetitive. You know where that led us. On the other hand, Fudgy had one benefit I discovered much later: I did some tests with it with a girl and, as colour, it was a pink mess. Years and years later, when I bought a scanner, I remembered the test and scanned one such 'pink' image, and it worked our rather well as b/white, in much the way as did most of my Kodachromes which I'd been led to believe would be unscannable, but which, however, as they didn't know that, just went right on ahead and did quite nicely after all. I think I can find the Velvia:



Nikon F2. All the 135 Velvia has been used up, but I still have a brick of it in 120.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2017, 05:58:26 am »

My experience with Ektachrome is that it fades more quickly than Kodachrome, a fact that was very significant for me because I was using both films many years before scanners became available. I now regret having used Ektachrome.

Now that scanners are available, durability of film image quality for new rolls is probably not an issue if the new film is always scanned. However, the really interesting issue is why some people seem to place so much importance on the emotion of nostalgia for technological products.

Nostalgia for a previous lifestyle in a previous era is understandable, as is nostalgia for a lost friend or family member. But nostalgia for an old, obsolete and inefficient piece of technology seems a bit strange to me. Could the Ford motor company make a profit by reintroducing the Model-T with it's inefficient fuel consumption, slow speed, poor handling and uncomfortable ride? ;)

Probably not, but a new '59 Cadillac Coupe de Ville with modern mechanicals very well might! Not a car made since, at whatever price, has the pure impact. I remember seeing one on German plates driving through (filling?) a narrow street in the tiny fishing village of Mallorca's Porto Petro, top down, driver and young family inside the thing: impressive! Stuff Ferrari, Porsche, all of those idiot speed machines: '59 had style! Mercedes S Class? Really? Sierra on steroids.

https://www.google.es/search?q=cadillac+coupe+deville+1959&rlz=1C2PRFE_enES586ES586&biw=1212&bih=885&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQj6_2_sjRAhUKuBQKHT-vDogQsAQIIw

Regarding the photoworld, for me it's more about the cameras (especially 500 C versions) than the film, and you can't enjoy them again without the film, can you? I still have a pristine F3 but it lies locked away... why spend money on film when I have no commercial justification for it? That the same would probably apply to 120 is true, but perhaps the motivation to play might be stronger...

The real motivation would have been a Hassy 500 Series with a 6x6 digital back that I could have afforded. No, I won't be holding my breath.

Your experience with fading comparisons is on the money; but it also depends: the truth seems to be that Extachrome fades more quickly when stored correctly than does Kodachrome stored correctly, but that the Kodachrome is more adversely affected by exposure to light. A bit of a circle, then. Don't check out your Kodachromes too often!

Rob

GrahamBy

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2017, 06:23:50 am »

I realised some time ago that I really wouldn't have fitted in with the contemporary ways, with monitor-watchers adding their several tuppences all the time

I spent 8 years sitting on the research ethics committee of a large hospital, and so I became interested in the psychology of reviewers. There are several studies that show that as you improve the quality of submissions, the reviewers will become more fastidious, down to debating the use of commas in the patient information sheet.

It seems this happens because the reviewers want to feel useful, and to feel they have contributed something, even though we weren't paid. So if you create a paid position called, eg "Art Director", which has nominal authority over another position called "photographer"... the AD will feel a need to contribute and to, well, direct, no matter how good the material being produced by the photographer. It's actually a major achievement in self confidence to say "no, this is fine, there is nothing useful I can add." In particular, it demands confidence in the security of one's position, which is something modern management tries to avoid: keep the employees insecure so they'll work harder... although probably not better.

All of which means that the major attraction of Kodachrome, of being a definitive an unalterable product, disappears as soon as it is scanned and available for import to Photoshop :(
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Ray

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2017, 07:57:48 am »

Probably not, but a new '59 Cadillac Coupe de Ville with modern mechanicals very well might! Not a car made since, at whatever price, has the pure impact. I remember seeing one on German plates driving through (filling?) a narrow street in the tiny fishing village of Mallorca's Porto Petro, top down, driver and young family inside the thing: impressive! Stuff Ferrari, Porsche, all of those idiot speed machines: '59 had style! Mercedes S Class? Really? Sierra on steroids.

https://www.google.es/search?q=cadillac+coupe+deville+1959&rlz=1C2PRFE_enES586ES586&biw=1212&bih=885&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQj6_2_sjRAhUKuBQKHT-vDogQsAQIIw


I'm not into cars as objects of art, Rob. Most cars look to me like weird aliens from outer space.  ;)
As with cameras, I expect cars to be functional and efficient in accordance with my purposes. I want my car to be fuel-efficient, durable, good value price-wise, easy to operate, and designed to meet my needs. Appearance is not the main consideration, but is of some consideration.

Quote
Regarding the photoworld, for me it's more about the cameras (especially 500 C versions) than the film, and you can't enjoy them again without the film, can you? I still have a pristine F3 but it lies locked away... why spend money on film when I have no commercial justification for it? That the same would probably apply to 120 is true, but perhaps the motivation to play might be stronger...

Hhmm! Can't say the emotional experience of handling the camera is significant for me, except with regard to the ease of handling and the number of useful features. If the situation was that modern digital cameras were heavier and more cumbersome and more time-consuming to use, I might have a nostalgia for those lightweight, super-fast, film-cameras of a previous era. But the opposite appears to be the case. For a while I used Medium Format cameras around the time that digital cameras were taking off and second hand MF cameras were cheap because professionals were moving to digital.

However, as soon as Canon produced a reasonable quality DSLR, the 6mp D60, I felt no reason to continue using my MF film equipment, which was heavy, cumbersome and expensive in terms of film costs and development.


Quote
Your experience with fading comparisons is on the money; but it also depends: the truth seems to be that Extachrome fades more quickly when stored correctly than does Kodachrome stored correctly, but that the Kodachrome is more adversely affected by exposure to light. A bit of a circle, then. Don't check out your Kodachromes too often!

I didn't know that. You're not joking are you? If what you claim is true, then I suppose the advantage of Ektachrome applies to situations of frequent and continuous slide shows. Right?
 
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GrahamBy

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2017, 09:55:11 am »


The real motivation would have been a Hassy 500 Series with a 6x6 digital back

A Romanian photogrpher friend likes playing with film in her Pentacon 6
http://www.crinaprida.com/3808568-the-medium-format-film

...and then an Australian friend (who used to work in a camera store but became a fireman to escape the customers) was on holiday in Austria last month and found one for a few hundred euros... but someone stole his wallet before he could do anything silly.
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Rob C

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2017, 10:10:21 am »

A Romanian photogrpher friend likes playing with film in her Pentacon 6
http://www.crinaprida.com/3808568-the-medium-format-film

...and then an Australian friend (who used to work in a camera store but became a fireman to escape the customers) was on holiday in Austria last month and found one for a few hundred euros... but someone stole his wallet before he could do anything silly.


Re Aussie pal: was it a fire sale that led to this?

Re Crina; doesn't she know it's not about 6x6, but that it's about two little triangular indents down the left side of the negative/tranny? It's what always frustrated HC-B: he coudn't play that game honestly with his weaponry of choice.

Rob
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 10:14:15 am by Rob C »
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luxborealis

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2017, 02:18:15 pm »

Hmmm... I guess Kodak didn't learn from their first bankruptcy or buy-out or what ever it was that caused its demise.

Let see, we'll finally have a use for those slide trays and projectors we threw out years ago. And quick - buy some shares in Dust Off! and whomever is making loupes these days.

Really?! Kodak is bringing back an industry-standard* albeit third-rate film (behind Provia/Velvia and Kodachrome) that scans poorly c.f. negs and few people can even view now as the equipment was obsolete a decade ago.

99% of the time I'm a positivist. Not this time.

*industry-standard because it could be processed faster than Kodachrome and its was American-made, not Japanese – at least that's what I'm told by those using it. Personally, having tried them all for over 20 years, I much preferred Provia/Velvia.
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eronald

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2017, 05:01:03 pm »

Reviewer's advice: Don't bury the lede :)

Edmund

I spent 8 years sitting on the research ethics committee of a large hospital, and so I became interested in the psychology of reviewers. There are several studies that show that as you improve the quality of submissions, the reviewers will become more fastidious, down to debating the use of commas in the patient information sheet.

It seems this happens because the reviewers want to feel useful, and to feel they have contributed something, even though we weren't paid. So if you create a paid position called, eg "Art Director", which has nominal authority over another position called "photographer"... the AD will feel a need to contribute and to, well, direct, no matter how good the material being produced by the photographer. It's actually a major achievement in self confidence to say "no, this is fine, there is nothing useful I can add." In particular, it demands confidence in the security of one's position, which is something modern management tries to avoid: keep the employees insecure so they'll work harder... although probably not better.

All of which means that the major attraction of Kodachrome, of being a definitive an unalterable product, disappears as soon as it is scanned and available for import to Photoshop :(
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eronald

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2017, 05:03:32 pm »

Hmmm... I guess Kodak didn't learn from their first bankruptcy or buy-out or what ever it was that caused its demise.

Let see, we'll finally have a use for those slide trays and projectors we threw out years ago. And quick - buy some shares in Dust Off! and whomever is making loupes these days.

Really?! Kodak is bringing back an industry-standard* albeit third-rate film (behind Provia/Velvia and Kodachrome) that scans poorly c.f. negs and few people can even view now as the equipment was obsolete a decade ago.

99% of the time I'm a positivist. Not this time.

*industry-standard because it could be processed faster than Kodachrome and its was American-made, not Japanese – at least that's what I'm told by those using it. Personally, having tried them all for over 20 years, I much preferred Provia/Velvia.

Me too. I used a Hassy V with Fujichrome 1600 and an 80mm as a travel camera for years. Much better than bluebox bluefeeling bluetack.

Edmund
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Telecaster

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2017, 04:08:30 pm »

1st attached pic: typical Ektachrome (probably ASA 50) c. 1962 from my dad's "archive."
2nd attached pic: typical Kodachrome (probably ASA 25) c. 1964 from same.

-Dave-
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eronald

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2017, 05:55:03 pm »

1st attached pic: typical Ektachrome (probably ASA 50) c. 1962 from my dad's "archive."
2nd attached pic: typical Kodachrome (probably ASA 25) c. 1964 from same.

-Dave-

Some Kodak moments last longer :)
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Rob C

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Re: Kodak bringig back Ektachrome
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2017, 04:19:50 am »

Some Kodak moments last longer :)


Don't knock 'em! They provided amazing signposts showing people exactly where to stand in order to make the iconic photograph of everywhere! Now that's service across brands: they never checked you to see if you had loaded Ilford.

Rob
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