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Author Topic: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI  (Read 59669 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2017, 05:58:49 am »

Hi,

Being critical of is not the not same a "hating".

Just take the facts, Michael made an investment in a full Hasselblad kit to be used with his Phase One back. Soon enough Hasselblad closed the H-system to Phase One. No surprise Michael was a bit upset.

A good company listens to critique and now days Hasselblad offers H#X models that work with other backs.

Best regards
Erik

I do,
He practically "hated" Hasselblad and Hasselblad "hate" him back.
I was under the impression that everybody in the industry knew that.

Best regards
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Tony Jay

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2017, 06:05:11 am »

Q.E.D. - an initialism of the Latin phrase 'quod erat demonstrandum', meaning  "thus it has been demonstrated" - but as you're a doctor, I'm sure you already knew that !

Think back to when you were around 10 years old .. all those school excercises in geometry involving Pythagoras' theorem (amongst others)  ..  ;)
Obviously familiar with the English, but not the Latin.
There is surprisingly little Latin in direct use in Medicine in day-to-day practise and most of that is in drug an fluid orders but that too is being phased out in favour of more explicit English in order to minimise drug errors.

I never did Latin at school and it certainly was not a prerequisite for any of the degrees that I have.
So, actually, without the translation, I would have been just as confused - there you go.

Tony Jay
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Manoli

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2017, 07:32:01 am »

From Nick-T on getdpi:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/60606-hasselblad-acquired-dji.html

Quote
DJI have not acquired Hasselblad.

What they have done is increased their shareholding and will sit on the board alongside Ventizz Capital (existing owners).

DJI have a great deal of technical know how and this is a good thing for Hasselblad.

Speculation about Hasselblad running out of money or communist made cameras is simply that and completely inaccurate.

Hasselblad do not tend to make a habit of replying officially to factually incorrect articles.
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Tony Jay

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dreed

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #104 on: January 07, 2017, 10:50:21 am »

...
Much more concerning, IMO anyway, is the effect the Smartphone will have on the future market for DSLR's. Simply put most current teenagers, those who are Smartphone smart anyway, look at current model DLSR as a piece of dinosaurware. From an image quality point-of-view for their purposes a Smartphone is plenty good enough and from a usability/convenience perspective there is no contest. Simply put, going forward, very, very few of those teenagers, once they reach an age where purchasing a DSLR becomes a realistic option financially, will have any incentive to switch even if they are really interested in image-making.
...

There are a couple of things here...

1) SLRs were much more affordable than DSLRs are today. Back then, you didn't pay for the camera, you paid for the photo.

2) My observations are that DSLRs (at their sales peak) outsold SLRs and that about as many people are now buying DSLRs as used to buy SLRs back before Y2K. Thus one might categorise the high sales period of DSLRs as irregular behaviour by the market. Of course I don't have numbers for that, just observations. Actually, this: https://photographylife.com/is-there-really-anything-wrong-with-digital-camera-sales-volumes

3) The big change is for the PaS camera. That is almost completely the smartphone market now.

4) I still see young people with new (entry level) DSLRs. My observation (from talking with them) is that DSLRs are being bought by the same people that bought SLRs - people that want to get more out of their photography than just a "snap".
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adri

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #105 on: January 07, 2017, 01:06:48 pm »

If suddenly people are going to cancel their pre-orders, whom can Hasselblad blame?

This site is not the same anymore after Michael passed.

If I were Perry Oosting, I would be mightily pissed off by this post and the pessimistic tone of it.

Many potential customers will look now at Fuji, Pentax and even the Sigma SD Quattro H.



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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #106 on: January 07, 2017, 01:13:00 pm »

If suddenly people are going to cancel their pre-orders, whom can Hasselblad blame?

This site is not the same anymore after Michael passed.

If I were Perry Oosting, I would be mightily pissed off by this post and the pessimistic tone of it.

Many potential customers will look now at Fuji, Pentax and even the Sigma SD Quattro H.

Many of us, I for one, have already been looking at the GFX, since it appeared on the scene. Of course, we will look all over for what we need. My X1D order still stands, but this whole delay has given me pause for thought. I can be pretty confident that the Fuji GFX will be what I imagine it do be, yet do worry about whatever Hasselblad is scrambling over. If I better understood the precise problems the X1D is experiencing, I would be more comfortable. As for negativity, this whole many months delay would be hard to construe as positive, right?
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #107 on: January 07, 2017, 02:13:29 pm »

Firstly, that Ventizz sold shares to DJI does NOT mean that Hasselblad got a cash injection - only that Ventizz (if they were the seller of the shareholding) did.  It's not a payout, which would be a 'dividend', but a straight sale.

Secondly, IF Hassy were in need of extra cash, they would normally finance this via either a bank loan, a corporate bond issue or an increase in share capital. The last option being what you refer to as 'a cash injection'. If Hassy didn't have the muscle to make a bond issue attractive - DJI did/would.

Certainly what you say can be true, and certainly all we can do is speculate.  However, I read into the situation a little differently.  It is not uncommon for shareholders to inject capital back into a company.  By nature that dilutes the value of any shareholders who do not put in their porportionate share.  This is typical for a company who has no ability to raise capital via conventional methods (coporate bonds, loans, etc.)

There are also various reasons a venture capital firm elects not to infuse the cash, one of which is their funds are also limited. I'm not familiar with Ventizz, but I"ve worked and been involved in a couple of deals through VC buyouts. Most of these firms create a "fund" which is done by raising investment capital from various sources.  Many of the funds are limited by an amount as well as time.   Once the fund money has been invested or the time limit has been reached, it really doesn't have an easy source of additional funds. 

I'm not speculating at all that this was the case, but it is a pretty complex situation.  If the investment group didn't really have the resources to help Hasselblad ramp up production but felt that it would help turn the company around, a logical course of action would be to allow themselves to become a minority stakeholder to someone willing to push in the funds to get things going, speculating that after things turned around their valuation would improve.

As I mentioned, based on the trajectory and track record of Hasselblad, this seems to be a positive step, since the current trajectory seemed a little sketchy.
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Christopher

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #108 on: January 07, 2017, 02:20:54 pm »

If suddenly people are going to cancel their pre-orders, whom can Hasselblad blame?

This site is not the same anymore after Michael passed.

If I were Perry Oosting, I would be mightily pissed off by this post and the pessimistic tone of it.

Many potential customers will look now at Fuji, Pentax and even the Sigma SD Quattro H.


If Kevin is really so wrong, why is there no comment from H / DJI ? Even today forcing Kevin to correct his statement would be easy  IF it actually is so false as some have claimed here.

I was sceptical at the beginning but Hasselblad is not really helping with their silence. It the same BS they followed during the whole X1D preordering delay. It's shameful.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
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NickT

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #109 on: January 07, 2017, 03:44:33 pm »

All I know is what I've posted, that DJI have increased their shareholding, I do not know to what degree, I will be talking to Sweden next week and will see what I can find out. I do not know where Mr Raber gets his information but I do think the article was rather negative especially the suggestion that staff would be wanting to leave, in fact all the people I know at hasselblad are extremely positive about DJI's involvement and very happy about the future of the company.

Hasselblad is in a better position than it has been for many years and anyone with an interest in medium format should be very happy about that I think.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #110 on: January 07, 2017, 04:54:44 pm »

As far as I am concerned, after having considered this carefully, I don't feel that the bad vibe generated by this article helps me start 2017 in a positive way.

I am not speaking about the rumor being conveyed, that I - and a large majority of posters in this thread - see as good news for Hasselblad, myself as one of their new customers, and the whole MF marketplace.

This, on top of a broader on-going reflexion about social media value, has contributed to my decision to take some time off LL forums. I may come around from time to time, or not, we will see what my heart tells me to do.

This is really an incredible family that has helped me learn a lot and I am very thankful to all of you, and of course above all to Michael and Kevin for having made this possible for so many years.

If I can help someone in any way, just drop me a PM.

Have a great one guys.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 05:02:20 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #111 on: January 07, 2017, 05:13:08 pm »

I am very sorry to see that Bernard is withdrawing. I don't hang too much here, but I was starting to. Bernard is one of the folks that make LuLa what it is, IMO. This is a casualty from all of this.
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Osprey

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #112 on: January 07, 2017, 05:31:51 pm »

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from.  A Pentax K1000 sold for around $250 in 1996, a Nikon F100 was about $1400 and a Canon EOS 1N was $2400.

That translates to: $385, $2100 and $3700 in today's currency.  They are right in the same ballpark.


There are a couple of things here...

1) SLRs were much more affordable than DSLRs are today. Back then, you didn't pay for the camera, you paid for the photo.

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NickT

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #113 on: January 07, 2017, 11:51:54 pm »

I am very sorry to see that Bernard is withdrawing.
Me too. It seems to be a function of public forums that decent, smart posters get exhausted by the constant negativity. On my forum I just ban the trolls :)
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JKevinScott

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #114 on: January 08, 2017, 12:20:32 am »

Me too. It seems to be a function of public forums that decent, smart posters get exhausted by the constant negativity. On my forum I just ban the trolls :)

In general, I agree with you.  In this particular instance, I'd be hard pressed to say who is trolling whom.  This whole thread reads like an argument between fans over their favorite sports teams, or folks bickering about religion.  Someone said an unfavorable thing about something precious to someone else, and here we all are trying to assert one bit of opinion as more valid than another, some of us attacking folks' credibility, some of us inventing theories and justifications for our differing points of view, and some of us throwing hands up and walking away at the whole uncivil, intractable mess.  I personally find it unfortunate that this degree of emotional energy is being spilled over speculation about the future of a camera company.  Hasselblad is either going to be fine or it isn't.  They're either going to be able to continue to produce products for users or they won't.  What anyone on this thread, forum, or site says won't change things one way or the other for Hasselblad's future, although what we continue to say could very much effect how we feel about one another as camera and photography enthusiasts.  Getting further at odds with one another would be a real shame.  IMHO.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #115 on: January 08, 2017, 02:41:27 am »

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for the insights.

I got the impression that Perry Oosting was quite happy with the initial DJI investment.

I would also suggest that DJI did invest in Hasselblad for mutual benefits, they either feel they can make Hasselblad profitable or they can find synergies motivating the investments.

But, I cannot see that it is not a new Hasselblad that is coming out of this. Let's not forget that the old Hasselblad essentially failed. Companies need to generate income to finance RND and keep owners and working force happy.

Kevin Raber mentions Volvo being taken over by Geely - but it is different thing.

Volvo sold Volvo Cars to Ford and that time Volvo was doing well. But Volvo felt that they couldn't effort the R&D needed to stay competitive. During the auto makers crisis Ford divested assets to stay afloat, without a government buyout. So they sold Volvo to Geely. Some folks didn't like the Chinese involvement and left Volvo. New owners have their say on things. Two of those guys work for my employer now and we have talked about stuff over a cup of coffe…

Volvo doubled production since the Geely takeover and has now four plants, Gothenburg (Sweden), Ghent (Belgium) and two new factories in China. Previous year was their best, ever. So a Swedish company owned by Chinese company can be a story of great success.

Just to say, Volvo always sought a partner to R&D, working with Renault didn't work out. The engineering staff wouldn't cooperate with Renault.

I would suggest that the new mirrorless solutions will be good for medium format. Now it seems it is confirmed that the Fuji GFX will have electronic shutter and electronic first curtain, that is a good thing.

My take is that the X1D doesn't need ES/EFCS (even if Ming Thein once stated it has EFCS, which does little sense without a mechanical second curtain) as it has a leaf shutter and has no mirror inducing vibrations.

Future knows what future will bring…

Best regards
Erik

Certainly what you say can be true, and certainly all we can do is speculate.  However, I read into the situation a little differently.  It is not uncommon for shareholders to inject capital back into a company.  By nature that dilutes the value of any shareholders who do not put in their porportionate share.  This is typical for a company who has no ability to raise capital via conventional methods (coporate bonds, loans, etc.)

There are also various reasons a venture capital firm elects not to infuse the cash, one of which is their funds are also limited. I'm not familiar with Ventizz, but I"ve worked and been involved in a couple of deals through VC buyouts. Most of these firms create a "fund" which is done by raising investment capital from various sources.  Many of the funds are limited by an amount as well as time.   Once the fund money has been invested or the time limit has been reached, it really doesn't have an easy source of additional funds. 

I'm not speculating at all that this was the case, but it is a pretty complex situation.  If the investment group didn't really have the resources to help Hasselblad ramp up production but felt that it would help turn the company around, a logical course of action would be to allow themselves to become a minority stakeholder to someone willing to push in the funds to get things going, speculating that after things turned around their valuation would improve.

As I mentioned, based on the trajectory and track record of Hasselblad, this seems to be a positive step, since the current trajectory seemed a little sketchy.
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Manoli

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #116 on: January 08, 2017, 04:32:35 am »

To add an inkling of potentially factual info and some perspective, another rumour site this morning reports that ' According to Hasselblad UK Manager they received 30,000 worldwide pre-orders, expecting only 3,000, for the X1D"

If that's the case, then I'm not surprised that they had difficulty ramping up production.
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Rob C

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #117 on: January 08, 2017, 04:59:08 am »

I didn't read Bernard to say he was taking a break from LuLa because of the current controversy; people can and do become a little fed up with running essentially the same conversation over and over again, and even though specific people can wind one up to the point where one either ignores them or just says sod off, I'm done with this crap, exactly as has happened to me a few times, there is the other point to make, and it's this: LuLa takes up a lot of time if you contribute often and with some deeper interest in photography itself, not simply as a gear nerd. For me, that time can sometimes be better spent making pictures or just walking and realising how damned fortunate one is to be where one is, free from city fumes, city crime and city people who can be a pain in the proverbial ass if they come on with the superior bit. Breaks from people are often as good as holidays.

The basic difference bertween Michael and Kevin might have been this: Michael was apt to remind one that, effectively, we were all sitting in his parlour, and we had damned well better behave like that, and if not, we'd be kicked the hell out. Maybe Kevin is too gentle? The site is his, not ours, and I'm surprised that seems to be going forgotten. Okay, there is now a financial incentive to keep readers at almost all costs (?) but politeness should not be automatically excluded because somebody pays a few bucks a year and thus feels entitled. There are ways of showing dissent and there are ways of being downright rude; they are not the same thing.

Rob C

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #118 on: January 08, 2017, 05:04:52 am »

To add an inkling of potentially factual info and some perspective, another rumour site this morning reports that ' According to Hasselblad UK Manager they received 30,000 worldwide pre-orders, expecting only 3,000, for the X1D"

If that's the case, then I'm not surprised that they had difficulty ramping up production.

Which speaks to my comment about scaling. Money, over time, can be helpful, but in the short run simple logistics often win out as the obstacle. If you have hand-assembled products and suddenly need to do it differently, this takes.... well... months to ramp up.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Hasselblad Acquired By DJI
« Reply #119 on: January 08, 2017, 05:23:29 am »

Me too.

+1 , as they say.

It seems to me that Hasselblad just got new financing that will help their ability to grow. End of. The rest is just someone trying to make mischief from a minor story on the financial pages. However, we live in a world where companies like Breitbart invent news and it goes round the world and is taken as truth. Sad.
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