What is up with Leica?

[Vieri Bottazzini]

I'm the one who wrote that, not the OP.  In any event, if you read my full post, you'll see that my problem with Leica is not the customs delay -- which I'm well aware they have no control over -- but the utter lack of any proactive communication on their part and the lack of any response to my repeated requests to be provided with a loaner or a replacement camera in light of the expected several months delay *after* they get the camera from customs. And this is all notwithstanding the fact that their alleged new "professional service division" is now in place. 

This is why I said I can't in good conscience recommend the S system to a working pro at the moment.  The defects and failures, combined with their laissez faire attitude toward customer service, combined with the months long delays in actual repairs, is untenable for someone who depends upon a camera to run a business as their sole source of income.  I myself "can" be out of action for several months without it having the effect of ruining my business or rendering me unable to pay the rent; I don't like it, but at least I can, in theory, put up with it. 

Oh, and by the way: my last email to them was on December 27: still no reply whatsoever as of January 5.  (And please don't tell me about the lengthy European holidays: that just furthers the point that they're not in a position to provide a professional level of service.  I got a response from Phase One (well, from my dealer) within twelve hours of sending it, during their (and my) holiday vacation.  And that reinforces the point that Leica's centralized model of "send everything to Germany and deal directly with Germany" rather than a dealer network that is able to perform repairs and provide replacements is an untenable relationship for a working pro.)

William,

sorry for the person exchange, my bad.

In your post, you wrote: "It was sent to Leica Germany in mid-november.  As of now -- early January -- there has been no word whatsoever on when I can expect it back.  It took over 4 weeks to get from the US through German customers and, as of Dec. 14, still had not even arrived at Leica." Well, it seems to me that until Leica gets the actual camera and examines it, it is just not possible to hear any words from them about when you can expect it back, can it? It's a bit unreasonable to expect otherwise, until you'll have confirmation that the camera is actually in Leica's hands

That said, I understand you frustration and definitely see your point re: not recommending the S to a working pro, which is exactly the point I was making in my post re: perception and the need for Leica to turn the corner on customer support. I hope your S's problems (as well as everyone else's) will be solved fast and for good, the S is such a great image making tool and system that it's really sad to hear all these bad service reports.

Best,

Vieri

[hasselbladfan]

I believe everything that is said here about the S lenses and Leica service, though I use contax lenses on my S2 and never had an issue. 

I use my S 006 since 6 months with my Hasselblad lenses (both my HC and V lenses) and they work perfectly. Great files. I am very happy.

Luckily, due to Forums like these, everybody is now aware of Leica's AF issue, so till it is solved, just carry some Hasselblad lenses in your bag and you never face an issue.

At last year's Photokina, the Leica engineers were very open about the issue and they consider it the highest priority to fix it. So, I am sure they will succeed .... one day. 

[Neil Williams]

I started with the S system in 2015 withe the S006 and a 70mm lens. I then bought a 120mm and 30mm both CS lenses and over the course of 2016 two out of three lenses went back to Germany for replacement AF motors. In June 2016 I decided to buy the Hasselblad H6D-100 but was let down by the Hasselblad rep in the UK as he was meant to have met me in Solihull but canceled due to a new appointment.
I contacted my friends at Ffordes in Scotland to see if they could get me the H6D and while in there store in Inverness they convinced me to trade in my S006 for a new S007 which I did. A week later while on holiday in Switzerland my S120mm sh!t itself......totally pissed off I sent a really bad email to Leica and they managed to turn my 120mm around in 3 weeks.
Last month my S007 s!it itself and I now have a brand new replacement...............Im hoping that is the end of it all, but at the end of the day the files I get from the S007 are IMOO unmatched so the Leica S system will stay with me.
Later

Neil

[Rob C]

I started with the S system in 2015 withe the S006 and a 70mm lens. I then bought a 120mm and 30mm both CS lenses and over the course of 2016 two out of three lenses went back to Germany for replacement AF motors. In June 2016 I decided to buy the Hasselblad H6D-100 but was let down by the Hasselblad rep in the UK as he was meant to have met me in Solihull but canceled due to a new appointment.
I contacted my friends at Ffordes in Scotland to see if they could get me the H6D and while in there store in Inverness they convinced me to trade in my S006 for a new S007 which I did. A week later while on holiday in Switzerland my S120mm sh!t itself......totally pissed off I sent a really bad email to Leica and they managed to turn my 120mm around in 3 weeks.
Last month my S007 s!it itself and I now have a brand new replacement...............Im hoping that is the end of it all, but at the end of the day the files I get from the S007 are IMOO unmatched so the Leica S system will stay with me.
Later

Neil

If camera brands were people:

my girlfriend is beautiful; she makes amazing love with me; most of the time she lives with somebody else, often abroad - sometimes I pay for her trips there, at other times not -  but she always comes back after a couple of months or so. There have been times when she just went straight back to where she'd been without even climbing into bed with me once, but hell, that's women... the love she makes makes it all worthwhile, all the pain, all the cost. My psychiatrist and my accountant both tell me I should move on, but you know how it is... I think I'll get myself castrated; then I could take up golf. The freedom would sure improve my swing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06xZyh8VBFQ

Rob

[hasselbladfan]

............. Im hoping that is the end of it all, ...........

Neil,

Buy a couple of second-hand Hasselblad lenses, so you are safe.

If Leica can't get it fixed (always possible-hopefully not), you have already some lenses for your new life with your H6.

[Rob C]

Hmm...Let me think...golf, sweet fleeting love, golf, sweet fleeting love, golf, sweet fleeting love...

Wouldn't work for me, Keith; never played golf, only pitch 'n' putt - about twice - at the local park when it had a course, back in the 50s. I think it's currently an enclosed dog-walking/pooping area... There has to be a moral deep in there.

However, I still wish I had a post-8 digital Leica M of some type, but not a b/white only version. My last employer had an M3 and it was a beautiful object, but his Nikon F got a helluva lot more use. Yes, as you've indicated before, it's probably not the best type of system for me, and I have to agree that it wasn't during my working years, which was why I didn't have one, but today... make a very nice alternative to the Nikons! Maybe if I'd owned a Leica all along, then those two tentative books might have seen print.

;-)

Rob

[Neil Williams]

Neil,

Buy a couple of second-hand Hasselblad lenses, so you are safe.

If Leica can't get it fixed (always possible-hopefully not), you have already some lenses for your new life with your H6.

I have two V lenses the 180mm and 250mm that I use on the S and they are too both fantastic lenses

[Rob C]

Rob,

Golf wouldn't work for me either. Never tried it, never wanted to try it, really, seems to me to be the waste of a good walk. Sweet love, hell yes, but certainly not fleeting!

Leica offer the lightest and most compact fast lenses, perfect for those forays into hand held selective focus land. Perhaps sometime in the not too distant future V and I will make it to Mallorca and you'll be able to try for yourself.

That's almost a contract now!

One bit of advice: don't believe the blandishments about great winter hols unless you're a crazed cyclist: it's bloody freezing and the buildings are mostly made of hollow bricks that hold no warmth, however much power one burns! I think it was a reported 3°C last night, and I've had ice on the morning windscreen in past years. It's currently being presented as a freak event similar to what's hitting other, more easterly parts of Europe, but it's actually normal for this time of year, and gets worse before it gets better.

From mid-April can be geat! Life gets back to a busy normal usually in time for Easter, whenever that actually happens to fall. But August sucks: too many people, and lots of heat haze.

Really love to see you both here!

Rob

[hasselbladfan]

I have two V lenses the 180mm and 250mm that I use on the S and they are too both fantastic lenses

Add a HC 50mm II and you have a AF in case you need it. No more broken AF parts.

[Bo_Dez]

You can spend thousands on Hasselblad lenses as backup to your Leica ones, but there is a good chance you will be using your backup Hasselblads more and for months on end. It's easier and makes more sense to just buy a Hasselblad.

[hasselbladfan]

A Hasselblad is great on a tripod. For action / street photography, I prefer the Leica S. I use the same lenses. No AF worries.

[Bo_Dez]

Well for street I admit the less boxy shape is useful for walking around with but I don't have issues hand holding a Hasselblad H and for action even. It does not need to be tripod bound.

[Chris Livsey]

Neither did I, but it scared the sh1t out of folk.

Most I meet think it's a movie camera, but then I am usually not taking people.

[Bo_Dez]

On digiloyd there is an account from a reader that says they had head from several sources that Leica has all but abandoned the S System and it has put the S R&D budget into the SL. It's looking like another R scenario.

[Rob C]

On digiloyd there is an account from a reader that says they had head from several sources that Leica has all but abandoned the S System and it has put the S R&D budget into the SL. It's looking like another R scenario.

I remember looking at an R6 and thinking I could like this, I could afford this; unfortunately, it doesn't show full screen coverage of the neg space.

I worked on some trannies made via such a camera and they were beautiful; however, when one's living was rather dependent on making the best use of the tiny acreage of a 135 format, there wasn't a lot of sense in increasing uncertainties for myself.

However, from an amateur perspective, if you could afford them, and the glass, of course, they were lovely things to have. I would not dream of knocking them in any way, and their optics are still pretty damned good and useful today. Ditto the old rangefinder Leicas, which again, were not ideal for my work. But boy, were they beautiful!

Rob

[hasselbladfan]

On digiloyd there is an account from a reader that says they had head from several sources that Leica has all but abandoned the S System and it has put the S R&D budget into the SL.

Always possible, but unlikely in my view. Not with the show they put on at the latest Photokina.

[eronald]

I get the S but I've never got the SL.

The scenario seems to be that afte a range has been evolved to perfection it gets killed off,

So the V Hassy was dumped, now the H is having a dagger shoved into its ribcage just as it has had the quirks ironed out and a used market established - let's have no illusion, the next H if it comes will be the last. Same may be true of the Leica S range.

And manufacturers sell us poor sods the same lense range over and over again, because the new mount is  "better".



Edmund

[Bo_Dez]

Yeah it sucks, add to that the Contax 645 and Rollei.

I have my doubts the H is done for at this point, but who knows. I hope not!

[Rob C]

Strikes me that if the new thing just reviewed (X1D) has a noticeable delay between press and expose, then it won't appeal to anyone shooting fashion or any other sort of people work. For that, both you and the camera need to be pretty quick in reactions.  Maybe what it needs is a range of good shift lenses and aim iself at people using tripods pretty much from necessity.

Rob C

[eronald]

Strikes me that if the new thing just reviewed (X1D) has a noticeable delay between press and expose, then it won't appeal to anyone shooting fashion or any other sort of people work. For that, both you and the camera need to be pretty quick in reactions.  Maybe what it needs is a range of good shift lenses and aim iself at people using tripods pretty much from necessity.

Rob C

Rob, the delay is between shown image and shot image. Just mount a V camera on top of the XD to compose, and you have new age Rolleiflex.