Hasselblad H2 + P45+ - still a viable combination to shoot fashion?

[The View]

How old can MF equipment be to be viable for fashion photography?

Is a P45+ (from2007) still good to use? Where is the key difference to a more modern back like the backs on the H4D-50/60 and H5D-50/60?

A Hasselblad H2 - is this still a camera you can shoot fashion with? No True-Focus, of course, so getting focus may be a challenge sometimes.

Also, I read some older Hasselblad don't have a CF card slot but have to shoot to an image bank (which I absolutely would not want). And then, I have come across H2 with a CF card slot.

I'd prefer an H5D-50/60, but if I can avoid taking out a loan for new equipment I'd rather buy older stuff.

[eronald]

How old can MF equipment be to be viable for fashion photography?

Is a P45+ (from2007) still good to use? Where is the key difference to a more modern back like the backs on the H4D-50/60 and H5D-50/60?

A Hasselblad H2 - is this still a camera you can shoot fashion with? No True-Focus, of course, so getting focus may be a challenge sometimes.
Also, I read some older Hasselblad don't have a CF card slot but have to shoot to an image bank (which I absolutely would not want). And then, I have come across H2 with a CF card slot.

The back incorporates the CF slot, not the camera body it is mounted on; the P45 is  a Phase product which works with Phase software and needs an independent battery - there are a bunch of H3D30 and H3D39 cameras with Hasselblad backs which are retailing much cheaper and still perfectly capable of current use - their real "disadvantage" is that they need to be used with the native Hassy software. The P45+ is holding its value because of its ability to do hour-long exposures - a feature which you won't find much use for in fashion.

[The View]

The back incorporates the CF slot, not the camera body it is mounted on; the P45 is  a Phase product which works with Phase software and needs an independent battery - there are a bunch of H3D30 and H3D39 cameras with Hasselblad backs which are retailing much cheaper and still perfectly capable of current use - their real "disadvantage" is that they need to be used with the native Hassy software. The P45+ is holding its value because of its ability to do hour-long exposures - a feature which you won't find much use for in fashion.

Thank you, Eronald.

What would be a realistic price for the P45+, just that I know.

I don't think I'll go for an H3D. I'd rather spend a bit more and get a Hasselblad with True-Focus. I check the H4x and H5x, and the prices for those bodies are crazy. Which means that if I'd go H4 or H5 I'll not go with Phase One for cost reasons (and the Phase One Backs are insanely expensive as well)

I just saw that if I got a P45 with an H2 I could use this and upgrade later, keeping the older camera as a backup.

I still have some time as I'll be doing my purchase in the next tax year.

[Joe Towner]

What are your expectations?  Will you be in controlled situations where you currently shoot at ISO100?  Or are you shooting at higher iso in uncontrolled situations?

The H4D-50/60 and the H5D-50/60 are more or less the same chip with a better body, respectively.  The Phase back will work on the newer H4x/H5x bodies, but the question is more if the CCD chip and it's need for light will match your work.

[The View]

What are your expectations?  Will you be in controlled situations where you currently shoot at ISO100?  Or are you shooting at higher iso in uncontrolled situations?

The H4D-50/60 and the H5D-50/60 are more or less the same chip with a better body, respectively.  The Phase back will work on the newer H4x/H5x bodies, but the question is more if the CCD chip and it's need for light will match your work.

I shoot mostly outside, but even at my current Canon 5DIII I mostly shoot at ISO 100, sometimes 200 (costs already one f-stop of dynamic range to go to 200)  never over 800,

I'd love to continue using Capture One Pro but I ruled out the Phase One cameras definitely, and the H4x is just too rare and the H5x go for crazy 7000$ on eBay.

[minicoop1985]

I use an H3D 39 to shoot in just about any circumstance, as long as I can use it at base ISO or 100. It handles complicated patterns quite well, unlike the 22 mp backs like the P25 and Aptus 22. I was in your circumstance (though I'm more of an all around guy than specializing in fashion) recently, deciding between a Phase back and H1/2 or the H3D. Don't rule out the Phase backs-they're great. Miles ahead of full frame. There is, however, two MAJOR advantages to shooting with a Hasselblad back-ONE battery and ultimate integration. If I were you, I would look into the H3DII 39 or H4D 31, if you don't want to go the Phase One route.

[DiamondsDr]

Hi, i don't know your reasoning for mf but i would say your 5d is just fine for the purpose... Imo don't buy from ebay if it breaks in one month then what? There is places http://hasselbladbron.com/cpo.pdf or usedphotopro.com or DT have some limited warranties for a piece of mind...

[BobShaw]

I use an H3D 39 to shoot in just about any circumstance, as long as I can use it at base ISO or 100. It handles complicated patterns quite well, unlike the 22 mp backs like the P25 and Aptus 22. I was in your circumstance (though I'm more of an all around guy than specializing in fashion) recently, deciding between a Phase back and H1/2 or the H3D. Don't rule out the Phase backs-they're great. Miles ahead of full frame. There is, however, two MAJOR advantages to shooting with a Hasselblad back-ONE battery and ultimate integration. If I were you, I would look into the H3DII 39 or H4D 31, if you don't want to go the Phase One route.

+1
I have had H1+Phase back, H2+Phase back, H3DII-31 and now H3DII-39. I probably would have got a P45+ for the H2 is they weren't ridiculously expensive (and still are) but I'm glad I didn't. I bought each H3DII for much less than a Phase back alone and it is a much better camera being integrated. Minicoop is correct in his capitalisation. I had a dual battery charger for the Phase and needed it. It just ate batteries. Phocus is great especially is colour accuracy is important which is fashion and product. People give Phocus a bad rap because they expect it to do things which it isn't. Like buying a motorcycle and wondering why it doesn't have 4 wheels. It is a raw processor and tethering tool. It is not a DAM. It is also free.

[The View]

I use an H3D 39 to shoot in just about any circumstance, as long as I can use it at base ISO or 100. It handles complicated patterns quite well, unlike the 22 mp backs like the P25 and Aptus 22. I was in your circumstance (though I'm more of an all around guy than specializing in fashion) recently, deciding between a Phase back and H1/2 or the H3D. Don't rule out the Phase backs-they're great. Miles ahead of full frame. There is, however, two MAJOR advantages to shooting with a Hasselblad back-ONE battery and ultimate integration. If I were you, I would look into the H3DII 39 or H4D 31, if you don't want to go the Phase One route.

Yes, I will test it all out.

For now, I have put my MF project on ice. For some reason, only overpriced gear appears on ebay. I can get a camera with warranty for the same price from Hasselblad-Bron.

I will focus on marketing now and am have a couple of agencies interested and will better not change camera systems at this time. In the meantime I can try it out. In regards to software, I am inclined towards letting the image be and do only minimal adjustments. So, in this respect, Phocus will be OK. I have C1 9, but I never created a keyword catalog. I just don't want to spend that time.

All the major work I do in Photoshop like compositing.

[The View]

Hi, i don't know your reasoning for mf but i would say your 5d is just fine for the purpose... Imo don't buy from ebay if it breaks in one month then what? There is places http://hasselbladbron.com/cpo.pdf or usedphotopro.com or DT have some limited warranties for a piece of mind...

Yes, you are right, and this was also my reasoning to put the MF project on hold.

I'm currently in the process of getting representation and have to focus all my attention there.

My reasons for MF are that I love to work with light, and I like to keep my fingers from the file. I'd love to have a file that is great out of the camera and needs not much processing - which always takes a hit on quality. I also love the detail and the color of MF. Recently I did a shoot in a small valley and the images that came out of the 5DIII were just "brown". I had to stand on my head to get some color out of it. The details in the forest smeared because of pixel size and resolution.

It's a bit the effect when you look at film contacts, and then the image falls apart when you enlarge it because of loss of nuances and fine changes of light.

Thanks for the links.

Now I see that those guys on eBay are crazy. They really ask for the same money - or, in case of some photo dealers, way more than you'd pay for a warrantied camera on hasselbron.com

[The View]

+1
I have had H1+Phase back, H2+Phase back, H3DII-31 and now H3DII-39. I probably would have got a P45+ for the H2 is they weren't ridiculously expensive (and still are) but I'm glad I didn't. I bought each H3DII for much less than a Phase back alone and it is a much better camera being integrated. Minicoop is correct in his capitalisation. I had a dual battery charger for the Phase and needed it. It just ate batteries. Phocus is great especially is colour accuracy is important which is fashion and product. People give Phocus a bad rap because they expect it to do things which it isn't. Like buying a motorcycle and wondering why it doesn't have 4 wheels. It is a raw processor and tethering tool. It is not a DAM. It is also free.

I will check out Phase One, but I also feel a one-system solution is best for reliability. I don't want to be in the situation where I'm shooting for a client (and I'm almost never in a city, always somewhere in the woods or deserts) and the back gives out.

I ruled out the older Hasselblad because I want True-Focus. For fashion it's a big help to know what's sharp and what's not. This is why I'll be likely aiming for an H5 with its focus confirm feature (and its better dust sealing as I'm not a studio photographer)

But for now, I have to take care of my business - and will proceed slowly. Likely, prices will come down and more cameras will be available as the H6D-100 rolls out (I'm flirting with an H5D-60) and also the X1-D.

[orc73]

Certainly my post will offend a few 

I'm sure you will get great ISO 100 images with that sensor. nice leaf shutter speed sync. H2 does not have the truefocus, which makes a big difference unless your focus point is in the center of the frame.

As somebody shooting fashion with several camera system and looking at what is produced in most magazines I can just say: get a cheap reliable body, and extra body.Most customer don't care if you shoot hasselblad or canon. they don't want to wait when you have tethering problems with your +10k camera think "why does this guy save on equipment" (while you could have gotten a canon for half the price or less, which they don't know).
They don't want to see that great shot out of focus, "because you use that old system" (...which is actualy also possible with the latest canon).
Some of the non photographers of the production team in the shoot will probably there with a 5dsr and the 70-200mm just for fun.

If you are a hobby photographer and want to enjoy, go on with that combo, if you want to work profitable as a pro photographer, work with a combo that works and pays off.

Before stuff gets printed they will put some instagram like filter over it anyway

[flashfredrikson]

get a cheap reliable body, and extra body.Most customer don't care if you shoot hasselblad or canon.

Absolutely second that.
I shot fashion for 15 years and still do occasionally, with everything from film to the original 1DS and P25 on Hasselblad, used the P45+ for quite a while, also with Hasselblad bodies and later got an H5D.
While the P45+ certainly produces a nice file when you throw a lot of light at it and the H2 is still a good camera and I personally enjoy shooting medium format, the client does not care (anymore). Canon and Nikon are so good these days, plenty good for any magazine and even billboard campaigns, and my 5DIII is the most reliable camera, like ever.
My advice would be get Canons or Nikons and for you own personal fashion shoots or high profile editorials in the hip magazines shoot medium format film. Because that is what the big dogs are doing.

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

Your keyword.. you would prefer not taking out a loan.

The bottom line comes down to two things... is this an emotional buy or a business tool? 

There are plenty of top shooters doing fashion on DSLRs.  Melissa Rodwell is one who often shoots both Nikon and Hasselblads.  Can't tell which is which if you go through her portfolio.  http://melissarodwell.com/

I'm sure her clients don't care what she bring as long as it gets the job they need done and suits their uses.

Emotional buys are gear we really really just "want" to use because we like it, because it feels good, or just because of some reason.  Leica falls into this category for A LOT of people.  See how many people shoehorn rangefinders into jobs that would really be best served with something else.  I did it for a long time.  Many of us have.  But it felt good! 

Business tools pay the bills.  They get the job done right, suit the day to day need, and get the bills paid.  I have a ridiculous panoramic setup because my clients pay for it.  They don't buy stitching errors.  Would I have that setup if they weren't paying for it... probably not.  Same with my medium format setup.  I love MF gear...but its cumbersome.  Would I be shooting with medium format for fun...NOPE.  I don't care what it costs...as long as every month enough work comes through that the payment is an after thought.  There are great leases you can get into through Capture Integration or digital transitions.  It's surprisingly affordable. 

If you aren't making a steady income, or the tool won't necessarily pay for itself... I would be very hesitant to move forward on it.  That's just me.  Here is a general rule I like to use...but if your purchase can't be paid for within 5 shoots, it's too expensive for you.  Not saying you WILL pay it off...but you should be grossing a certain amount if it is a business tool.  Business is business.

If its emotional, everything flies out the window.  MF won't make your portfolio any better...but it does offer features DSLRs don't have.  Just remember, you will still need a backup, and a DSLR is only a decent backup.  Shooting at ISO 50, F16, 1/800 with strobes only to have a MF camera fail means you will have to change completely for your DSLR to fit into that workflow.  That can be a session nightmare.  Running MF often means you fly without a true backup...

[The View]

Certainly my post will offend a few 

I'm sure you will get great ISO 100 images with that sensor. nice leaf shutter speed sync. H2 does not have the truefocus, which makes a big difference unless your focus point is in the center of the frame.

As somebody shooting fashion with several camera system and looking at what is produced in most magazines I can just say: get a cheap reliable body, and extra body.Most customer don't care if you shoot hasselblad or canon. they don't want to wait when you have tethering problems with your +10k camera think "why does this guy save on equipment" (while you could have gotten a canon for half the price or less, which they don't know).
They don't want to see that great shot out of focus, "because you use that old system" (...which is actualy also possible with the latest canon).
Some of the non photographers of the production team in the shoot will probably there with a 5dsr and the 70-200mm just for fun.

If you are a hobby photographer and want to enjoy, go on with that combo, if you want to work profitable as a pro photographer, work with a combo that works and pays off.

Before stuff gets printed they will put some instagram like filter over it anyway

True-Focus is the reason I have ruled out anything below H4D or H5D, with a preference of the H5D.

But, as I noted above, I have for now put the upgrade on ice as I am focusing on an important moment of my career, and don't want to deal with hunting and testing equipment and getting used to a very different system. That's for later.

You're right, the Canons are super reliable. I have only had one malfunction ever, and that was a brand new battery with a production defect, which was fixed instantly by putting in a spare. I knock on wood, but I never had another failure, and the couple of read errors on lenses were fixed within the minute by cleaning the contacts.

[The View]

True-Focus is the reason I have ruled out anything below H4D or H5D, with a preference of the H5D.

But, as I noted above, I have for now put the upgrade on ice as I am focusing on an important moment of my career, and don't want to deal with hunting and testing equipment and getting used to a very different system. That's for later.

You're right, the Canons are super reliable. I have only had one malfunction ever, and that was a brand new battery with a production defect, which was fixed instantly by putting in a spare. I knock on wood, but I never had another failure, and the couple of read errors on lenses were fixed within the minute by cleaning the contacts.

Yes, financial viability and focus on what's more important at the moment.

Also, a really good image doesn't lose because it has less detail or because you had to make adjustments due to a smaller dynamic range.

Once the opportunity presents itself... there are things that you can do with MF that can lead beyond the horizon... you just have to see it in front of your eyes and know what equipment can do it, and which one can't

[Bo_Dez]

Yes it is.