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Author Topic: HP B9180 - no printing, sheets are pushed out - "out of paper" sensor failure?  (Read 5467 times)

martin0reg

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Hello,

I need help to repair a probable hardware issue of HP B9180 and B8850.
These A3 printers have much in common with bigger HP's like Designjet Z2100, so I hope that some HP experts may be around and still know this model.

My B9180 seems to ignore the loaded paper:
It is moving through the paper feed, from the lower main paper tray through the back side up to the print path, and then out of the printer - but without printing.
No matter if I run a print job or print a nozzzle check by pressing the printer buttons itself: no printing, only the message "out of paper", after the printer has actually picked a sheet and pushed it through and out. The printhead carriage is waiting on the left side, not moving over the paper.
So I think it is due to the paper sensors between the paper feed rollers in the back, there are two which I can see. Although I could dismantle the housing I don't know how to dismount these sensors in order to inspect or repair or replace them.

(hope you can see the attachement:)
The first sensor which the paper passes is located at the far left side (seen from the back), visible on the photo. Its shape looks like a fork where the border of the paper would go through.
The second sensor is hard to reach behind the rubber rollers. It is activated by a plastik flag/lever, which the paper would push down. This small flag you can see on the right side of the photo. The actual sensor is hidden behind  the rubber rollers, under the black plastic tray.

Has anybody tried to renew or repair these sensors? Or at least have seen a service technician doing this?
I can't find any instructions or service manual in the internet.

Or could it be a software/firmware issue? I have already updated the firmware and also turned the printer off and on again many times, no success...

The problem started some weeks ago when the printer would print a nozzle check and a few pages but then refuse to print and push the paper through and out. Since last week there is no more printing at all, just the error message "out of paper"


PS: My B8850 is running smooth, very good output, high quality OEM inks, easy to refill and with some really nice features: MK/PK are simultanously used without switching, very good B&W output, daily self maintenance keeps the printer ready for printing without clogging, etc...
It would be a pity to dump the B9180, which seems to be in good condition..except for printing.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 09:08:16 am by martin0reg »
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kers

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Does the printer work with the manual one sheet feed?
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martin0reg

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I just tried the manual feed - it doesn't print.

After putting the single sheet in the manual tray and pressing OK, the printer pulls the sheet into position like it should.
But a split second after this is done, the display says: take out the paper (with a red [!] button), at the same time the computer comes up with a "paper jam" message.
While the sheet of paper seems to be in the correct position for printing, without any kink.
Even if I don't take it out and press OK, the printer will push it out in the end, without printing.

Possibly due to the first sensor, which scans the paper COMING UP from the main paper tray below, and therefor should not scan any paper when using the manual tray...??  ...I have cleaned this sensor "fork" already with q-tips...

PS: but if I print from main tray it says clearly "out of paper", not "paper jam"... so both sensors could be faulty ... ??
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 12:52:39 pm by martin0reg »
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nirpat89

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I had the same problem long time ago and damned if I can remember how it got fixed.... :(

When you get a "paper jam" in manual feed, instead of waiting for the print to spit it out, try to do the routine recommended to clear the paper jam - i.e. open the back and pull out the paper to force the printer to reset the error.  Wild guess on my part, may be the error is "stuck" in the printer (if there is such a thing.)
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martin0reg

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@nirpat, thank you for your "wild guessing" .. any bizzare or ingenious idea is appreciated.

I tried it with the manual feed, like you said, and more combinations to simply irritate the printer.
Because the error could in fact "stuck in the memory of the printer", misunderstanding the data from the sensor.
While trying the manual feed I got one single message which was new: "paper too small" ...but in the end there was only the annoying "out of paper" or "put a sheet of paper into.."

You said you could not remember how you got it fixed...does that means you really got it fixed?

I assume you don't have this printer anymore..??
.. but please search your memory, how you succeeded in clearing the printer's memory..
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kers

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i have two ideas:

1 what does it do when you try a test page

press left button and OK...


2 What happens if it gets orders from an other computer...
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Mark Lindquist

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LINK 1

Power off the printer and leave it unplugged for at least 1 hour or more, minimum. 
This will reset the printer.  1 minute will not work.

Then plug back in start back up - see if that works.

If not, remove all the ink cartridges and reinstall them one at a time moving the carriage over to the far left.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 08:32:39 am by Mark Lindquist »
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nirpat89

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You said you could not remember how you got it fixed...does that means you really got it fixed?

I assume you don't have this printer anymore..??
.. but please search your memory, how you succeeded in clearing the printer's memory..

Yes, apparently I did fix it (or it fixed it itself.)  I still use the printer and it works.  Touch wood!  There were all kinds of weird things happening in the early part of its life and I was about to throw it away.  Then it started working fine, may be it learned to live with me or vice versa.  I specifically remember the "paper jam" error when there was none.  But alas no memory (some sort of a block of a traumatic event?) of how it got resolved.  I will think about it some more, may be I will stare at the printer and see if I can come up with something. 

I understand your frustration.  With all the problems, it is a great printer and it would be a shame to trash it because of some random error.  Too bad HP did not follow up with newer models.  I have been running mine with cheap expired OEM inks that I am able to accumulate form eBay.  I will use it until it dies or until I no longer get the cartridges. 

By the way there is a yahoo group (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hp9100Series/info) and another group (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/BB/viewforum.php?f=39&sid=4b43014c945fe62cccf4e113188e5c49) that you can do a search on and see if there is something useful on this topic.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 07:54:56 pm by nirpat89 »
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martin0reg

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@kers
I tried pressing the left button ("X") instead of OK, no change.
Then I tried X and OK at the same time, at different steps, until the printer got stuck in a message like "press OK to stop" or similar..
(I don't know the exact english terms, printer language is german)
I could only turn off, then turned on again - but the error remains.

@nirpat
There are more attractive subjects to stare at...but if it helps to remember..
I know the yahoo group, but haven't found a solution there. What you can easily find on many sites and threads is the error

@Mark Lindquist
Unplugging the printer from mains for one hour, even one night, did not help. The printer will do some initial process more than without unplugging, but in the end the error remains to come up.

I will try you last instruction, it seems to go deeper regarding the level of reset.
One question:
- do you mean in fact the cartridges, not the printheads?
Because removing and re installing the cartridges won't make the carriage move to the left,
only a change of printheads will cause this....!?
Or am I missing something?
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nirpat89

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Because removing and re installing the cartridges won't make the carriage move to the left,
only a change of printheads will cause this....!?
Or am I missing something?
To bring the carriage to the left:  With the printer ON, lift the lid.  Then press and hold the ON button until the print carriage moves to the left.

Also, item #4 in Mark L's link to HP website rings a bell with me...i. e. clean the rollers in the back.  Did you try that yet?

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Mark Lindquist

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@kers
I tried pressing the left button ("X") instead of OK, no change.
Then I tried X and OK at the same time, at different steps, until the printer got stuck in a message like "press OK to stop" or similar..
(I don't know the exact english terms, printer language is german)
I could only turn off, then turned on again - but the error remains.

@nirpat
There are more attractive subjects to stare at...but if it helps to remember..
I know the yahoo group, but haven't found a solution there. What you can easily find on many sites and threads is the error

@Mark Lindquist
Unplugging the printer from mains for one hour, even one night, did not help. The printer will do some initial process more than without unplugging, but in the end the error remains to come up.

I will try you last instruction, it seems to go deeper regarding the level of reset.
One question:
- do you mean in fact the cartridges, not the printheads?
Because removing and re installing the cartridges won't make the carriage move to the left,
only a change of printheads will cause this....!?
Or am I missing something?

Here's the thing.  The printer is stuck in an error loop.  It could be pilot error, such as trying to print borderless on matt media, which we all know is an example of what will not work.  You could be making some pilot error you are not aware of.  Perhaps look even longer and harder at that issue.

As far as cartridges vs. printheads, I meant cartridges.  Howver in your situation, I would actually try both, not at the same time, though.
The idea is to bring the printer out of the error loop, first by doing a reset, (which you have done) then by causing a new problem for it to deal with.

If it was me, I would turn it off, pull everything out of it and start over as though it was a new printer.
Look at the instructions and see how they direct you to begin, then run through the process as though starting from the beginning.

I do a lot of repairs on our large format printers and I help people here on here with their issues, but the B9180 isn't a printer I have torn down to the frame although I am familiar with it.

Those things can sometimes be found on Craigslist cheaply or free - something to also think about.

If you feel adventurous, you can snag this:

B9180 paper pickup roller assembly

and replace the one you've got. If you have a service manual that is.

But no guarantees that will work.

I would try resetting the printer and attempting to return it to its normal beginning state.  If you can, update the drive and firmware.  Then, do one test print and one test print only.

Then see what happens.

Best advice, try to find a service manual and see how you get into the area that shows error messages.
Keep googling until you find the service manual.

Good luck -

Mark
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Mark Lindquist

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A few other things.

Check out this page:

http://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/HP-Photosmart-Pro-B9180-Printer-series/1143049/model/1143050

Find the driver for your exact system.  Also the utility.

Most Importantly,

Uninstall your printer.  Have the new driver downloaded if possible - then reinstall it with the recently downloaded newest software.

One test page and one test page only.

http://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/HP-Photosmart-Pro-B9180-Printer-series/1143049/model/1143050


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martin0reg

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@nirpat
Cleaning the rubber rollers was one of the first things I've done.


@Mark Lindquist
I know your site already, so thank you for responding on the B9180 in particular.

The b9180 is from a german sort of craigslist, for less than 50€, so there's nothing to loose. And beside I have a working B8850.

You are tending more to a software or firmware failure, but what about the sensors?
And what is the idea behind changing the pickup rollers, as they seem to work fine... if the paper feed would only stop, when reaching the upper tray where the printhead is waiting to print..

I do a lot of searching, but a service manual for this model is really hard to find. I don't know why - for canon and epson I have SM for all older models. HP seems to keep secret papers more secret than other companies, I think..

Anyway you gave me a lot of homework to do, I will try what I'm able to...
...If it was me, I would turn it off, pull everything out of it and start over as though it was a new printer.
Look at the instructions and see how they direct you to begin, then run through the process as though starting from the beginning...
..as this seems to be the most radical approach, I may try it first..

PS: Or should I first try another notebook with new installed drivers? Don't know what will take more time... on a sunday afternoon..
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 02:00:48 pm by martin0reg »
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Mark Lindquist

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The closest thing I could fin in the way of a service manual is here:

http://newreviews.top/answer/answers.php?q=Hp+photosmart+pro+b9180+service+manual

I know nothing about that website.

If you can get another notebook and load new drivers for the printer that haven't been on it before, and it's not too much of a pain, I'd try that.  When you take all the cartridges  and print heads out, put them in plastic freezer bags.  When you have the printer open, take a flashlight and check around inside and see if there is anything looking funny.Anything that's dirty, clean it with distilled water and a lint-free cloth.  (Pecs pads - whatever).

Be sure to clean the rollers.
User guide is here:  http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Photosmart-Pro-B9180-Printer-series/1143049/model/1143050/manuals

Shake the inks and heads that are in the bags vigorously.

Remember what nirpat89 said: 
"...To bring the carriage to the left:  With the printer ON, lift the lid.  Then press and hold the ON button until the print carriage moves to the left...."

Install one ink, turn machine on.  Then turn printer off.
Install another ink - same drill
Do so until all inks are installed.

Then unplug and wait  at least 15 minutes.

Install one print head.  Turn on.
Read any error messages and write them down.
Turn off machine.
Install another printhead.
Turn off machine.

Do this until all printheads are installed.

Load the tray with glossy 8.5 x 11 sheets of paper. (Glossy side down).
Pull out the paper tray extension.

Get ready and plug in the printer and turn it on.  Let it go through everything it needs to do.
Whatever it tells you to do on the screen, do it.

It is possible you might have a bad printhead or cartridge, so be prepared for that.

Once it has gone through it's initialization, go into the utility and try doing a printer diagnostic.
Do a head alignment if it hasn't already done it.
If it does any kind of print, such as a diagnostic print or alignment print you may be ok.

If it just shoots the paper out take it to the local rifle range and see if it can be targeted to be recycled.

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martin0reg

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The closest thing I could fin in the way of a service manual is here:

http://newreviews.top/answer/answers.php?q=Hp+photosmart+pro+b9180+service+manual

I know nothing about that website.
...

Install one ink, turn machine on.  Then turn printer off.
Install another ink - same drill
Do so until all inks are installed.
....
The link connects to a drop box.. the downloaded file is an *.exe ... if unzipped by peazip there are a ".rscs" folder and some unknown files like ".rdata" or ".data". Sadly (or fortunately??) I can't open or view any of these files

Following you instruction will be a bit of a pain, installation of a new unpacked printer is easier.
I don't dare to ask - but how important is the installing of only one at a time?
Could it happen to empty the first cartridge completely because the printer would "prime" all 8 channels each time, so the first one 8 times? I hope not..


PS: Now the printer is empty. I took out all carts then all printheads. Closing upper main door (resp their sensor) have moved the empty carriage back to the service station on th right. Then I have pulled the plug, turning off without the on/off button.
Tomorrow I will do the re installing.... I don't have a rifle yet..
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 05:45:11 pm by martin0reg »
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Mark Lindquist

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Following you instruction will be a bit of a pain, installation of a new unpacked printer is easier.
I don't dare to ask - but how important is the installing of only one at a time?
Could it happen to empty the first cartridge completely because the printer would "prime" all 8 channels each time, so the first one 8 times? I hope not..

No.

PS: Now the printer is empty. I took out all carts then all printheads. Closing upper main door (resp their sensor) have moved the empty carriage back to the service station on th right. Then I have pulled the plug, turning off without the on/off button.
Tomorrow I will do the re installing.... I don't have a rifle yet..

Really, I don't have all the answers.  I'm just trying to help you.  If that was my printer, that's what I would do, even though it's a pain.
I would be hoping to get feedback from the printer either on the computer screen or on the printer monitor.
It may be a pain, but it could be worth it too.  Hopefully it will show either a printed or a cartridge is bad, then it might get easier.

It's up to you how to proceed. The idea of doing it one at a time is to know which, if any have a problem.  If you put 6 in all at one time you might not ever know.  It's up to you bro - this printer is not my thing, but it is what I would do.

Understand that I don't guarantee anything - my system to try to jump start it back is just that, my way, so do what you think you should or want to do.  I'm not a repairman, just an ordinary guy who likes to tinker with machines.

Good luck.

Mark
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martin0reg

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After "playing carts" and turning off and on and off...
..the error remains the same:
When it comes to the alignment of the heads, the printhead moves to the left, a sheet of paper is picked up from the main tray, it moves correctly uo to the printing tray - and while the head is waiting on the left side it moves through and out of the printer...  >:(

Regarding initialization: I could not come to the state of a new unused printer, because the first request by the empty printer is to put in the missing heads. Only after all heads are in place and recognized, the printer requests the cartridges.
After the instructions for installing a "virgin" b9180 which comes out of the package, you have to first put the carts in then the heads. But that seems to be exclusively for the first priming.

So I will continue searching for these two sensors - or dump this unmanageable printer
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 11:04:08 am by martin0reg »
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Mark Lindquist

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You know, I had one of those B9180 printers briefly.  It made gorgeous prints - really stunning.
Then it started acting up and I just took it to the local GoodWill with carts and all and a note.

I got mine off Craigslist free.

Could be you might look at Craigslist and see if there are any in your area.  If there are and it's cheap, you could see how it runs.
If it gives you parts instead, then you might be ahead.

On the other hand, you could dump it now, and jump into a more current printer and be done fighting with it.

The last guy I tried to help just wrote:

"...There are crossroads in life and one must make decisions which may be right or may be wrong...anyway I have pulled the plug on this machine, literally and actually. I will not spend any more time and money to try and solve some highly elusive problems. It is going to the dump."

Seems this is the way of many printers and the end result of people who don't have the patience or skill to see it through to the end.

It takes a lot of study, a lot of learning and research and a good deal of experience to get these things going again.

Your printer has got a bug-a-boo which I still believe is not related to hardware necessarily.  You can replace the sensor switches if you can find a manual and parts, but you'd probably be better off moving on at this point.

Sorry I couldn't help you more.  I just don't have the printer in front of me, or any literature on it.

Good luck.

Mark

PS - have you tried upgrading the firmware?  Did you do a different laptop with new drivers?


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martin0reg

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Well I use to get stuck into technical problems which I don't be able to master,
therefor should learn to let go...

Anyway thank you for your instructions and links, I may need them if my B8850 (almost a B9180) would start making trouble..


PS: I just tried another, newer laptop, win10 instead of winXP, same error. I didn't installed new drivers and the firmware on the printer is the latest, so I believe I can not update anything.
But most important: the error occurs BEFORE any computer setting comes into play: I got the "OOP" with the first try to print the alignment test, when I did not have connected a computer at all.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 03:45:29 pm by martin0reg »
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