Just Bought Another HP Z3200PS 44" - Fantastic Deal

[Mark Lindquist]

The Z3200 model is a tiny twig on the huge HP wide format printers tree. It shares several components, inks, spindels, with other models.
If it gets anywhere near the DesignJet 5500 lifespan there is at least another decade future for it.

Mark made a very nice deal if I compare it to new and secondhand prices in the EU.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

How long has the 5500 been available since it first came out Ernst?

If it gets anywhere near the DesignJet 5500 lifespan there is at least another decade future for it.

We can only hope.  If so, that would be great!

[Ernst Dinkla]

How long has the 5500 been available since it first came out Ernst?

If my memory is correct something like 2001 and replacing the 5000 that had similar technology.
Parts are still available and refurbished/good secondhand have prices starting above 2K $. They were expensive when new though.

Designjets appeared in the early 1990's, replacing electrostatic CAD plotters.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[NackJich]

Thanks for the very detailed reply! So if I were to try to make a custom profile for a Canon printer I would have to somehow get hold of the image file that HP color centre uses as its target print, print that with the canon and then use the HP to create the profile. I guess it's embedded in the software somewhere?

[Mark Lindquist]

Thanks for the very detailed reply! So if I were to try to make a custom profile for a Canon printer I would have to somehow get hold of the image file that HP color centre uses as its target print, print that with the canon and then use the HP to create the profile. I guess it's embedded in the software somewhere?

Yep.

Export a color chart as a TIFF for printing externally allows you to use a different program (a RIP, for example) to print the color chart. Do not modify the TIFF file in any way before printing it. The printed chart should be exactly the correct size; the simplest way to achieve this is to print it on a paper size larger than the chart and then cut the paper after printing as indicated by the crop marks.
If printing a chart, select one of the available charts.
If measuring a chart, select the characteristics of the measurements file: what sort of information it should contain (CGATS and MonacoPROFILER formats are supported), and where the file should be saved.
Chart measurement may not be successful if you load the chart as a single sheet without skew check.
Open the measurements file with your profiling program.
The printer's spectrophotometer measures from 400 to 700 nm in steps of 20 nm. All other measurement types are interpolated.

You will have to experiment Nackjich.  Start by trying to make your own custom profile in color center and find out what options are available.  Could be the color chart can be saved as a tiff, as discussed.

-M

Here is a thread at the large format printing forum on this topic:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?106181-Problem-with-creating-a-printer-profile-for-a-different-printer-using-the-HP-Z3200

[deanwork]

I've never tried that using the Z spetro for making profiles for other printers. I don't know if that works or not. I've always had the X-Rite software for the other printers.

I think the reason that people think that HP is "getting out of the fine art business" is that the have done such a strange job of promoting the technology that most companies don't even sell them anymore. That's bad for HP, however they want to look at it because a lot of companies don't sell their ink and heads anymore either.  I don't really care myself because I just order all the supplies directly from the HP website they have send it to me NEXT DAY with NO shipping charge, and they always have what I need. The longevity is twice what the new Epson 10K is and the price of the printer is half of that.

As far as the fine art market goes, Epson does't care much about it either. I'm considering a P10K or P20K when I FINALLY find out something about their quad inkset for bw which no one seems to have any real experience with after all this time. If they cared about it they would put it in the hands of some famous photographer and let him do a thorough review and market that to all the schools.  I asked my supplier about it and he said everyone seems to really like them but Epson's not making a big deal out of promoting or testing them. Their main interest is in pushing the dye sub and uv curable machines.

The stability data for the Z3200 on the Wilhelm site is listed as >450 years in daylight for the Canson rag media I use, and that's for color. I can't for the life of me see how they could improve upon that, other than increasing the gamut a little, which is no issue for me personally but would help the designers. What whey could work on is the speed and the sheet feeding, and possibly allow thicker media, other than that there is not much to improve other than their website.

John

[Mark Lindquist]

Agreed on all points John.  450 years in daylight?
That's phenomenal.  And their new Vivid inks test even better.

I have urged them to pay more attention to the market, but they march to the beat of their own drummer.  Thanks for weighing in - good to see you John.

Mark

[Mark Lindquist]

I've never tried that using the Z spetro for making profiles for other printers. I don't know if that works or not.
John

Oh it definitely works John.  Especially for your Z3100.

Here is an article by Michael Reichmann from January 2009 that deals with this issue specifically:

https://luminous-landscape.com/making-profiles-with-the-hp-z3100-2/

Skip down to this section:

"HP Advanced Profiling Solution"

" However, I think the main advantage of the “APS”, is that it lets you use the Z3100 to also make profiles for other printers. If you have more than one printer (or friends with printers), your investment in the Z3100 and APS will now really pay dividends. HP doesn’t really document this, but they’ve included options that make it possible. They even include the 918 patch profiling target (hidden away in the APS software). So, just print this target out on your Epson 3800, and then tell the HP APS to read the target. "

There are specific directions there.  You would need the APS however.

I got one for $90.00 new, open box on eBay. They come up now and then.
But you may already have one.

-M

[jhein]

Since we are talking Z printers here, I have a question about mine.  It is a vanilla 24" Z3100 circa 2007.  I have done all my own maintenance including the belt. I never print matte.  Most of my prints are on Red River UltraPro Satin or Gloss or Canson Baryta.

So my question is, am I missing anything since I don't have the newer chromatic red that came with the Z3200?  I seem to remember that it will help matte prints but not so much on satin or gloss.

Thanks
Jim

[Mark Lindquist]

The Z3200ps printers are definitely an improvement over the 3100's especially in the area of the reds.
Careful editing somewhat levels the playing field however.  Gamut is gamut, in the end though, so the 3200's win out with chromium red.  Everything else is basically the same. There are users who say the Z3100 has better neutral grays in B and W.

Seems like you are happy with your Z3100.  That's great.  Coming up on 10 years man.
Fantastic track record for a LF printer.

[Geraldo Garcia]

I just finished putting my Z3200 back in one piece after replacing the starwheel motor. I have some paper profiles to make for my Canon IPF8400 and will take the chance to document the process of using the Z3200 to do it. I will post a new topic about on Monday or Tuesday.
Regards.

[deanwork]

We did some gamut tests a few years ago comparing my Z3100 to my Canon IPF8300 and the epson 9900. When viewing gamut renderings using Color Think the 9900 had a much higher gamut in all the colors when viewing mid-value and higher value hues. The Canon was a hair better in some of the lower value blues and greens I believe. The 9900 had the best reds.

The Z3100 and the Canon were very close if not identical in most of the colors except red. The Z yellow was quite amazingly bright especially considering the awesome longevity. The red however, on matte media is never totally red, it's really a red-orange. Now on gloss media it's quite good, as long as you don't do work that is explosively saturated, but not as good as the 3200, and certainly not as intense as the Canon or the Epson ultra chrome inks.

Having said all that I have only had two customers who were not satisfied with the Z3100 reds on matte media and both of them loved to crank saturation. The Z3200 is a probably up there with the Canon Lucia pigments in the red area. I don't have one here to test but it would be so close as to be a non issue.

john

[Mark Lindquist]

I just finished putting my Z3200 back in one piece after replacing the starwheel motor. I have some paper profiles to make for my Canon IPF8400 and will take the chance to document the process of using the Z3200 to do it. I will post a new topic about on Monday or Tuesday.
Regards.

That would be wonderful Geraldo.  We'll be looking forward to it!

Thanks!

Mark

[NackJich]

Thanks again for all that information! I'm searching Ebay for the HP advanced profiling solution. Quote "For another $800, you can get the HP APS". With a little luck I'll get a bargain for less. This printer really does have a lot going for it !!

[Ernst Dinkla]

We did some gamut tests a few years ago comparing my Z3100 to my Canon IPF8300 and the epson 9900. When viewing gamut renderings using Color Think the 9900 had a much higher gamut in all the colors when viewing mid-value and higher value hues. The Canon was a hair better in some of the lower value blues and greens I believe. The 9900 had the best reds.

The Z3100 and the Canon were very close if not identical in most of the colors except red. The Z yellow was quite amazingly bright especially considering the awesome longevity. The red however, on matte media is never totally red, it's really a red-orange. Now on gloss media it's quite good, as long as you don't do work that is explosively saturated, but not as good as the 3200, and certainly not as intense as the Canon or the Epson ultra chrome inks.

Having said all that I have only had two customers who were not satisfied with the Z3100 reds on matte media and both of them loved to crank saturation. The Z3200 is a probably up there with the Canon Lucia pigments in the red area. I don't have one here to test but it would be so close as to be a non issue.

john

There is an HP document that informs the user how to achieve best red results with the Z3100. That document was with the bundle docs I transferred to Mark. He might have put it on his site.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Mark Lindquist]

Here is that document:

[Roscolo]

Oh it definitely works John.  Especially for your Z3100.


-M

It works, but HP APS doesn't appear to be supported anymore.  Having built a number of profiles for other printers using the HP APS and onboard spectro, my advice is unless you're just flat broke, skip it. Get an i1 when it's on sale for $1200-$1300 The profiles I've build with my i1 are better than the ones the HP creates, even the profiles for the HP. Choices are limited with the onboard spectro. I think there are only 2, maybe 3 charts maxing out at 980 patches. Not so with the independent i1. Another reason to think long and hard about buying a z is how HP sells the ink. The carts are small, and when HP discontinued the twin-packs, I discontinued any thought of buying another HP z printer. Have purchased 2 Canons in that time: ipf8300 and ipf8400. Don't get me started on the HP print driver. It's just clunky compared to the Canon print plug-in. Still do some B&W printing on my z3100, but it's more to keep the inks flowing. Can't bring myself to toss it yet. It's kind of the backup to the backup at this stage.

[Mark Lindquist]

It works, but HP APS doesn't appear to be supported anymore.  Having built a number of profiles for other printers using the HP APS and onboard spectro, my advice is unless you're just flat broke, skip it. Get an i1 when it's on sale for $1200-$1300 The profiles I've build with my i1 are better than the ones the HP creates, even the profiles for the HP. Choices are limited with the onboard spectro. I think there are only 2, maybe 3 charts maxing out at 980 patches. Not so with the independent i1. Another reason to think long and hard about buying a z is how HP sells the ink. The carts are small, and when HP discontinued the twin-packs, I discontinued any thought of buying another HP z printer. Have purchased 2 Canons in that time: ipf8300 and ipf8400. Don't get me started on the HP print driver. It's just clunky compared to the Canon print plug-in. Still do some B&W printing on my z3100, but it's more to keep the inks flowing. Can't bring myself to toss it yet. It's kind of the backup to the backup at this stage.

An interesting point to add to this:

If you do not need APS for some other features than creating printer profiles on the Z3200 for the Z3200 then you could as well use the normal Color Center profile creator. For monitor calibration/profiling it is not worth installing either, the newer X-rite i1 Display Pro is a way better instrument than the older HP branded one that is in the APS package.

This opinion is based on tests several years ago when I got my Z3200. Both APS and the normal Color Center profile creators deliver about the same quality profiles when used with the Z3200. That was not the case with the Z3100 where APS delivered a better quality profile than Color Center could. As far as I can estimate the Color Center software has been much improved in between the Z3100 and the Z3200 introductions. There is also a difference between the APS as used on the Z3100 and Z3200 if one checks the profile data, it looks like another engine is used. I can not recall the exact names of them though, Logo versus ?. With the change in Red ink between the models (and in my opinion some changes in ink load of the other hues) it is hard to tell whether APS improved between the introduction of the two printer models but I see equal profile quality between CC and APS which was not the case with the Z3100.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Roscolo - I remember how enamored you were with the Z3100 when you first got it and were using it.
I find it interesting that you haven't gotten rid of it.
But I'm glad you're pleased with your Canon printers.
Whatever we use that we can work with to authenticate our visions, is what it is about in my book.

I'm not sure if you have used the Z3200ps Roscolo.  As Ernst has discussed, the profiles directly from the 3200ps surpass those made from the APS and Z3100. 

Certainly a stand alone unit might make a better profile.  How much better is the issue.
For me, having the convenience of the ESP in my Z3200ps printers is well worth the sacrifice of having a somewhat less than perfect profile from a stand alone.

To each our own.  I'm glad to hear from you - it's been a long time.
Congrats on your Canon printers.  Viva la difference!

Mark

*EDIT: Quote from Ernst is from:
Re: HP z3200 APS Win 10
« Reply #7 on: Today at 07:52:44 AM »

[John Nollendorfs]

Roscolo:
You can buy the 300ml HP 772 carts for a decent price like I noted in an earlier thread. Not all colors are available in that size, but the Lt Gray and Blacks are, as well as Lt Cyan & Lt Magenta. All you have to do is remove the cap from a HP 70 cart of the corresponding color that is not registered as empty yet, and replace that on the 772 cart. Of course you lose the ability to monitor remaining ink, but you can just periodically pull the cart out and check the weight!

Still happy using the Rosco clear acrylic gloss for coating canvas'?

[Roscolo]

Roscolo:
You can buy the 300ml HP 772 carts for a decent price like I noted in an earlier thread. Not all colors are available in that size, but the Lt Gray and Blacks are, as well as Lt Cyan & Lt Magenta. All you have to do is remove the cap from a HP 70 cart of the corresponding color that is not registered as empty yet, and replace that on the 772 cart. Of course you lose the ability to monitor remaining ink, but you can just periodically pull the cart out and check the weight!

Still happy using the Rosco clear acrylic gloss for coating canvas'?

Good tip on the ink, but too much hassle for me. And my Canon's have spoiled me. So much faster than the pokey old Z, easier to load, insanely easier to sheet feed, and that HP driver is just ridiculous compared to the superior Canon print plug-in. My productivity is so much better and faster with the Canon's. Too bad HP has never updated the Z series past the z3200.

Still using the Rosco on canvas...still no problems!

[Damir]

Roscolo wrote: Choices are limited with the onboard spectro. I think there are only 2, maybe 3 charts maxing out at 980 patches.

It is possible to use more patches, I calibrate with APS on Z3100 with 4096 patches using Bill Atkinson target. He also have target with 5202 patches.

It is all connected to .txt file in APS software which will generate as many patches as you put in it. Just insert .txt file with more patches in folder in APS where targets are, and it will offer you much more than just 3 charts. I even generate smal target to calibrate printer using A4 page, as sample packs are coming in that size. It is not ideal profile, but it will give me some idea how will paper perform.