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Author Topic: Canon User-Best RAW software  (Read 4527 times)

cbserota

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Canon User-Best RAW software
« on: November 22, 2016, 12:13:28 PM »

Just purchased a Canon 1DX Mark II--Canon tech support recommends their free Canon DPP4 for raw software.  Any advice and recommendations would be appreciated.
       Thanks----Charley
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Tony Jay

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2016, 09:43:47 PM »

I have never used Canon's own raw converters - I own five different Canon cameras.

My suggestion is to trial all the 3rd party raw converters - Lightroom, OnOne, Capture One etc.
Once you know what the strengths and weaknesses are of each then, if required, fine tune your queries to this forum.

They all work well but have different quirks.
I confess that I use Lightroom but the big drawcard there was not the Develop module at all but the Library module.
In other words digital asset management was the real issue.

Tony Jay
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Greg D

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 09:22:03 PM »

My two cents worth - Canon's DPP is an excellent raw converter, but a raw converter is all it is.  The Zoom Browser program (that used to come with Canon cameras - I guess it still does) is a good browser/viewer as well, but it's nothing like Lightroom as an organizational tool.  And I do think Lightroom has Canon raws pretty well dialed in (perhaps more so than some other cameras).  So LR is what I use.  Some folks who aren't satisfied with LR's rendering will generate TIFFs from DPP, then work those in PS if necessary, or use LR just as an organizational tool, but it's always been good enough for me.
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adias

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 01:01:41 AM »

IMHO, DPP 4.x brings out the best in the latest EOS cameras. Perfectly fine for straightforward editing when  local processing is not needed.

paulbk

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 01:15:04 PM »

re: Canon 1DX II (I own it)
I always end up in Photoshop no matter what RAW post/converter I use. None have the flexibility and range of Photoshop for making print files.
1) Capture One is great if you have the patience to learn it's UI. I don't. I try it every few years for a few hours, then uninstall. If they re-write Capture One with Lightroom 'like' UI, it will be a winner.
2) IMHO, Lightroom has the best (most intuitive) UI. With practice it gives you a good 16 bit TIFF to play with (refine) in Photoshop.
3) Canon's DPP-4 is an excellent RAW converter for Canon files. That said: quirky and unrefined UI, limited range of post process options, painfully slow conversion (even on very hot computer). Sometimes I use DPP-4 for event shoots where I'm not making art, I'm making documentary snap-shots: Select All > File > Batch process.. and let it grind away for an hour or more. Sometimes a lot more.
4) I have ON1 RAW on order. Thus far, looks interesting.

Only you, the user, can determine what works for you. And since this is highly subjective depending on personal taste and experience, you can't be wrong. As Michael use to say, "Life is short, death is long. Have fun!"


(ps: As a retired old fart, and cold hearted engineer it still surprises me how much I miss that man, Michael Reichmann. I never met him in person. Wish I did. But I feel like I knew him. A first class human being.)
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 02:55:59 PM »

I just posted a list of RAW devs in the LR7 thread. Since it maybe going all CC I have been working with other options. I really like ACDSee and Capture1.
OnOne I also like and have been using a bit. So we shall see.
Maybe use PhotoSupreme as a DAM and a separate Dev, as that may also speed the applications up.

I have stopped using LR6.8 as it is painfully slow. Particularly with newer large file sizes, and Also tired of the dev module being locked to its order of workflow process. We should at least be able to change the order. Also I keep hitting the bar that closes the dev modules.  This should be less prone to occur.
Everything else is really nice. But without the main points I mentioned above, its a useless.
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Hoggy

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 10:06:09 PM »

I have stopped using LR6.8 as it is painfully slow. Particularly with newer large file sizes

Have you tried the option in the performance preferences to enable editing with Smart Previews?  ...  Not perfect, but better.  It's also smart enough to switch to the actual raw when zooming in 1:1.

I'm pretty sure that that changed for the perpetual as well, but I could be wrong.

Having said that, I think the dizzying number of different previews is a bit ridiculous.  Capture One only has 1 type, I think - which equate to LR's Smart Previews if I'm not mistaken.  They may have all come about as the program progressed though the versions, but going forward they might want drop the others and just stick to the Smart Preview type like C1 - and reduce the storage overhead of all those previews.
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kikashi

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 03:54:17 AM »

I have stopped using LR6.8 as it is painfully slow. Particularly with newer large file sizes, and Also tired of the dev module being locked to its order of workflow process. We should at least be able to change the order. Also I keep hitting the bar that closes the dev modules.  This should be less prone to occur.
Everything else is really nice. But without the main points I mentioned above, its a useless.

What do you mean by "locked to its order of workflow process"?
What do you mean by "the bar that closes the dev modules"?

Jeremy
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Tony Jay

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 05:45:23 AM »

I have stopped using LR6.8 as it is painfully slow. Particularly with newer large file sizes, and Also tired of the dev module being locked to its order of workflow process. We should at least be able to change the order. Also I keep hitting the bar that closes the dev modules.  This should be less prone to occur.
Everything else is really nice. But without the main points I mentioned above, its a useless.
I am sorry Phil there is no order to workflow in the Develop module.
Play with any slider in whatever order you like.
This is not the first time that you have posted rather strange criticisms of Lightroom that make no sense.

Like Jeremy, I too would like to know exactly what you are referring to with respect to the "bar" closing the Develop module.
I even went back to check Victoria Brampton's comprehensive list of shortcuts to see if I had missed something over the years but no, her list does not provide any enlightenment.

Perhaps, once explained, some of your comments will make sense, but, as written they don't make sense.

Tony Jay
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john beardsworth

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 08:02:10 AM »

Having said that, I think the dizzying number of different previews is a bit ridiculous.... They may have all come about as the program progressed though the versions, but going forward they might want drop the others....

I agree - it should stop making us have to think about generating minimal, standard, 1:1, setting standard sizes, etc and do the thinking for us. I still haven't given up on an embedded preview mode though.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 08:26:50 AM »

I am sorry Phil there is no order to workflow in the Develop module.
Play with any slider in whatever order you like...

You can, but if I am not mistaken, LR will execute your playing in the order it deems appropriate anyway.

Rory

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 11:11:14 AM »

I agree - it should stop making us have to think about generating minimal, standard, 1:1, setting standard sizes, etc and do the thinking for us. I still haven't given up on an embedded preview mode though.

That makes two of us.  It is used in the import module, but with pathetic performance.  With the addition of the reference view I would like to be able to reference the embedded image.
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kikashi

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 12:51:46 PM »

You can, but if I am not mistaken, LR will execute your playing in the order it deems appropriate anyway.

I believe you're right, Slobodan, but so what? It makes no difference to the user, who is free to fiddle with the various tools in the Develop panel in whatever order he thinks fit. LR might be locked into a particular order, but the user isn't.

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 12:59:07 PM »

I believe you're right, Slobodan, but so what? It makes no difference to the user, who is free to fiddle with the various tools in the Develop panel in whatever order he thinks fit. LR might be locked into a particular order, but the user isn't.

Unless you are a type of user who thinks that his order would be superior, i.e., would produce superior results in the end. I don't, but I can see how some might think otherwise.

Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 01:39:59 PM »

I am sorry Phil there is no order to workflow in the Develop module.
Play with any slider in whatever order you like.
This is not the first time that you have posted rather strange criticisms of Lightroom that make no sense.

Like Jeremy, I too would like to know exactly what you are referring to with respect to the "bar" closing the Develop module.
I even went back to check Victoria Brampton's comprehensive list of shortcuts to see if I had missed something over the years but no, her list does not provide any enlightenment.

Perhaps, once explained, some of your comments will make sense, but, as written they don't make sense.

Tony Jay

Really? "Nonsense"? "Strange criticism"?
"Also tired of the dev module being locked to its order of workflow process".
Maybe "workflow process" threw you off, but what other options could you come up with other than....the "Develop modules are locked to the order" they are in.
Basic/Tone curve/Color/Split/Detail...etc

So the modules force you to scroll through them. Further more, it is easy to fumble with the Hide/Unhide of the tools while doing it, since the entire bar vertically can hide or unhide them. Neither of those were a clue? At least another understood what it was I referred to, at least being the only posiblity.

I stated "We should at least be able to change the order". What else is there in a dev workflow process that can have the order rearranged?  I'm not sure what else I could be referring to.

Instead of asking "what do you mean", you claim I post "strange criticisms that makes no sense".

Do I have a First time poster flashing some place on my name ? Does ANYONE need to be told they can move a slider on the screen in any order? If you are hear to learn something, if you don't understand something, just ask the questions. Keep your inquisitive ponder of my strangeness or lack of to yourself.

Is ANY software designed that one adjustment cannot be executed contingent of another being adjusted first? (there might be a one-off app someplace. Lets just hope Adobe LR isn't one of them)

You of all people should know exactly what I am talking about, and IF not your first option that <a user can or cannot adjust sliders at their will....lol>, perhaps use some deductive reasoning from a user perspective might help you understand what it can be.

I have made a bunch of posts with praises of LR, and have a slew of posts helping others with questions. As others have helped me. I have also contributed to update threads since 3.0.
Jeremy asked simply, "what do I mean specifically", which is perfectly fine. I don't need your faulty analysis of me being strange or not(you cant even figure out something as simple and at home as my comment), and your lack of reasoning makes you think I'm nonsensical? Two of your wrongs don't make anything right. To clarify for you, I'm not at all offended, just disappointed. I except more from mortals. I hope the above clarified your misunderstanding.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 01:47:26 PM by Phil Indeblanc »
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 01:45:53 PM »

Unless you are a type of user who thinks that his order would be superior, i.e., would produce superior results in the end. I don't, but I can see how some might think otherwise.

There maybe a reason for it being locked, but I hardly use Split tone in the begining , I like making Lens corrections before some others, and i adjust color a bit later than detail at times.
I can't say everyone uses or should use the same, but I think there maybe a need to have an "Unlock" option that allows users that have been using it the suggested way, yet find it restrictive to be able to change it. 

I would much rather have a real Dual Screen support, with the dev tools as a movable box off the main screen at times, but thats just not part of the options.
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Tony Jay

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 04:32:35 PM »

Phil you are simply wrong.

I say again:
You can choose exactly which order you want to apply any edits.
I actually do apply lens calibration and sharpening/noise reduction as import develop presets.

If you are complaining about the arrangement of the panels in the Develop module then that has nothing at all to do with the actual workflow process.

"Is ANY software designed that one adjustment cannot be executed contingent of another being adjusted first? (there might be a one-off app someplace. Lets just hope Adobe LR isn't one of them)"
And yes, again, I am not sure what you mean by this statement either.
Are you bagging Lightroom or not?
Lightroom does in fact actually apply your edits in a particular order - that is not a bad thing since it does this to maximise image quality.
However, that, as previously stated does not constrain you in your workflow in the slightest.

Unfortunately your reply to my post has not clarified your position a whole lot.

Tony Jay
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 07:00:05 PM »

I don't have a problem at being wrong when I am, but I looked over this in as many angles as I thought logical, and I can only see you being wrong in a few areas. First in the fact that there is likely no software that would limit a users behavior the way you describe.
Second, I actually responded with the order of the modules titles, and third you saying I speak nonsense, and have strange criticism.

I'll address the core issue, in an effort to be productive....With some attention to the details in what you said.

Why would anyone think they are restricted on what adjustments are going to be active or inactive?
What software do you know that has a GUI that you make a slider adjustment, and it doesn't work due to a prerequisite of another panel? Most software just doesn't work this way and makes no sense.
Use some reasoning and think about what is the locked components. Hint: Its NOT the users input, (which is impossible in most apps).
The workflow is to an extent DICTATED in the order the modules are placed.

Yes, you and I, and many do like applying a couple different modules in different orders, and there are sometimes or often images that usually need a little custom tweak per image....
Wouldn't it be nice to have the detail above the Split or Colors? The Lens below the Basics? Better yet, wouldn't it be amazing to be able to pull that column and move it to the screen on the right..given you use dual screens?
Imagine if you can make the right screen with grids a bit smaller so you can fit other panels on it. This has been a often desired, and discussed topic here.
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hogloff

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2017, 07:16:55 PM »

I don't have a problem at being wrong when I am, but I looked over this in as many angles as I thought logical, and I can only see you being wrong in a few areas. First in the fact that there is likely no software that would limit a users behavior the way you describe.
Second, I actually responded with the order of the modules titles, and third you saying I speak nonsense, and have strange criticism.

I'll address the core issue, in an effort to be productive....With some attention to the details in what you said.

Why would anyone think they are restricted on what adjustments are going to be active or inactive?
What software do you know that has a GUI that you make a slider adjustment, and it doesn't work due to a prerequisite of another panel? Most software just doesn't work this way and makes no sense.
Use some reasoning and think about what is the locked components. Hint: Its NOT the users input, (which is impossible in most apps).
The workflow is to an extent DICTATED in the order the modules are placed.

Yes, you and I, and many do like applying a couple different modules in different orders, and there are sometimes or often images that usually need a little custom tweak per image....
Wouldn't it be nice to have the detail above the Split or Colors? The Lens below the Basics? Better yet, wouldn't it be amazing to be able to pull that column and move it to the screen on the right..given you use dual screens?
Imagine if you can make the right screen with grids a bit smaller so you can fit other panels on it. This has been a often desired, and discussed topic here.

You are talking about having the ability to rearrange the GUI right...to the order you want to adjust the image. I say just learn to live with the way LR presents itself to you...adjust to it and move on. How long really does it take for you to scroll the panel down to the action you want to perform...couple seconds. Does that really make you less productive...really?
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Denis de Gannes

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Re: Canon User-Best RAW software
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2017, 07:25:29 PM »

I don't have a problem at being wrong when I am, but I looked over this in as many angles as I thought logical, and I can only see you being wrong in a few areas. First in the fact that there is likely no software that would limit a users behavior the way you describe.
Second, I actually responded with the order of the modules titles, and third you saying I speak nonsense, and have strange criticism.

I'll address the core issue, in an effort to be productive....With some attention to the details in what you said.

Why would anyone think they are restricted on what adjustments are going to be active or inactive?
What software do you know that has a GUI that you make a slider adjustment, and it doesn't work due to a prerequisite of another panel? Most software just doesn't work this way and makes no sense.
Use some reasoning and think about what is the locked components. Hint: Its NOT the users input, (which is impossible in most apps).



[u]Hint, Lightroom is a "non destructive application" i.e it does not make any physical changes to the "Original Imported file" when you work in the Develop Module, the changes you apply to the file is stored in the Catalog File by default. Every time you apply a change to the file you are working on Lightroom utilizes to Original file (raw or tiff, jpeg) and rebuilds the preview applying all the changes you have applied in a pre-designed order. This is why you get the advice to apply changes that require intensive processing like Lens correction, noise reduction, spot removal, brushing etc after you have applied global tone adjustments and the like.
This is completely different to working with pixel editing applications that actually make physical changes to the original files like photoshop. [/u]


The workflow is to an extent DICTATED in the order the modules are placed.

Yes, you and I, and many do like applying a couple different modules in different orders, and there are sometimes or often images that usually need a little custom tweak per image....
Wouldn't it be nice to have the detail above the Split or Colors? The Lens below the Basics? Better yet, wouldn't it be amazing to be able to pull that column and move it to the screen on the right..given you use dual screens?
Imagine if you can make the right screen with grids a bit smaller so you can fit other panels on it. This has been a often desired, and discussed topic here.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 07:29:28 PM by Denis de Gannes »
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